About the supposed Russian hack

[Allerius]

Leaks provide a narrative couched in the manner the leaker wants it to be seen. It is only fundamentally a good thing when it is done to all sides without an underlying motive to influence how people see one party over another.

Its politics, its messy, its back-room dealing, it does NOT lack for black-eye material.

The issue is the danger of a hostile country actively attempting to influence the outcome of an election in a manner that is not transparent. There is no doubt Clinton would have been a better president concerning foreign relations, just as there is no doubt a random chimpanzee from the zoo would outperform Clinton.

Information, as long as it's true (which is in this case seems that it is) isn't political or narrative driven. It simply exists for people to make of it as they will. Regardless of all sides being hit, the dual purpose of deterrence and punishment are met by any leak and is therefore beneficial. All you're saying is that we need more leaks, which I agree with.

All countries influence elections by their very existence. Russia flying planes over Syria caused Hilary to call for a no-fly zone, which certainly influenced the electorates opinion of her one way or another. Mexico provided a narrative that Trump used. There is always influence from foreign states, and it is fair game. Tampering is harmful, but releasing information is not tampering. Furthermore, you can't conclusively prove that it wasn't done to all sides. Maybe China hacked the RNC and found nothing, nobody knows. Your argument rests on a scenario happening that is impossible to prove or disprove.

[finskee]

The whole "russia hacked the election" thing is a good example for fake news.

If Hillary and the democrats werent that corrupted there would be nothing bad to leak btw.

There was nothing in the leaks, seriously except some pictures of pizza. You're all missing the point here. Someone is fucking with us? WHY DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD BE?

[Kellhound]

Good thing I'm neither of those people you've described then!

Because

1. I don't support Russia, which I've made pretty clear in another thread yesterday
2. I think both parties should be more transparent, not just one. But the consequences of these leaks are entirely on the back of the content within it and the people who wrote them.

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Republicans hate Russia. Only Trump has extended a hand and it's purely for business.

But that issue, IF is is by the Russians - which nothing seems to confirm it right now, just pure conjecture - is another thing entirely than those who published these e-mails.

Russia meddling in the elections = Bad.
Transparency = Good.

Trump will sell the US to Satan to make a buck.

Transparency only really works when it is uniform.

[finskee]

What's more laughable are the "Russia hacked the election" headlines. Don't they know the libtards take it all literally? Just gave them more hope of inserting Hitlery in office even though she lost by a landslide. Hacking the election is impossible since the machines are not in any way accessible remotely. You can't remotely hack a computer that isn't even connected to anything else.

What Russia is accused of doing is related to her illegal email server. I find it extremely laughable that the WH and Obama are condemning them for sharing what the public had a right to know about. She sure as hell wasnt going to expose her own crimes.

What fucking crimes?

[Zandalarian Paladin]

There's nothing even in the emails.... unless you believe in pizzagate.

I didn't say "incriminating". I said unethical and greased, or something similar.

The DNC acted completely out of their rights. They've made a favorite, then manipulated the public image to make her win.

Podesta had several e-mails that directly linked Hillary's managers with the Medias, to the extent which they'd even write some questions to ask Trump on live TV. We saw some journalists borderline breaking down in those e-mails when they said a mistake on live TV that could've hurt the Democrats.

People can be astounded by the complete lack of ethicalities from the DNC and still not buy into the whole Pizzagate/Spirit Cooking madness.

As for Russia, well, no comments here. Again, I don't like them, I don't see why you keep trying to point things I agree with (mostly).

[Daelak]

Information, as long as it's true (which is in this case seems that it is) isn't political or narrative driven. It simply exists for people to make of it as they will. Regardless of all sides being hit, the dual purpose of deterrence and punishment are met by any leak and is therefore beneficial. All you're saying is that we need more leaks, which I agree with.

All countries influence elections by their very existence. Russia flying planes over Syria caused Hilary to call for a no-fly zone, which certainly influenced the electorates opinion of her one way or another. Mexico provided a narrative that Trump used. There is always influence from foreign states, and it is fair game. Tampering is harmful, but releasing information is not tampering. Furthermore, you can't conclusively prove that it wasn't done to all sides. Maybe China hacked the RNC and found nothing, nobody knows. Your argument rests on a scenario happening that is impossible to prove or disprove.

Wow I am so satisfied by this response, please go tell the CIA and our other intelligence agencies there isn't anything to worry about.

[Kellhound]

Information, as long as it's true (which is in this case seems that it is) isn't political or narrative driven. It simply exists for people to make of it as they will. Regardless of all sides being hit, the dual purpose of deterrence and punishment are met by any leak and is therefore beneficial. All you're saying is that we need more leaks, which I agree with.

All countries influence elections by their very existence. Russia flying planes over Syria caused Hilary to call for a no-fly zone, which certainly influenced the electorates opinion of her one way or another. Mexico provided a narrative that Trump used. There is always influence from foreign states, and it is fair game. Tampering is harmful, but releasing information is not tampering. Furthermore, you can't conclusively prove that it wasn't done to all sides. Maybe China hacked the RNC and found nothing, nobody knows. Your argument rests on a scenario happening that is impossible to prove or disprove.

Your whole argument basically shows the danger of one sided information release. And yes, intentionally releasing information to harm the opponent of your prefered candidate is tampering. I have no issue with overt influence.

[Allerius]

No, no, people on this forum are pretty livid when it comes to the US not being a democracy. Just say 'Hillary won the popular vote" or something to that effect and they will come.

There are more ways a democracy can be run than popular vote. The US is divided into winner take all subdivisions. Win enough divisions, win the presidency. The margin you win a division by doesn't matter, so popular vote means nothing. However the winner of each division is determined by a vote of the citizens, which makes the process fundamentally democratic. Plenty of other countries have majority governments that didn't win the majority of the total vote (e.g. Canada).

[finskee]

I didn't say "incriminating". I said unethical and greased, or something similar.

The DNC acted completely out of their rights. They've made a favorite, then manipulated the public image to make her win.

Podesta had several e-mails that directly linked Hillary's managers with the Medias, to the extent which they'd even write some questions to ask Trump on live TV. We saw some journalists borderline breaking down in those e-mails when they said a mistake on live TV that could've hurt the Democrats.

People can be astounded by the complete lack of ethicalities from the DNC and still not buy into the whole Pizzagate/Spirit Cooking madness.

As for Russia, well, no comments here. Again, I don't like them, I don't see why you keep trying to point things I agree with (mostly).

Because you keep coming back to this whole "its ok cause they did it to the democrats" bullshit. They did it to the USA. ALL OF US. Can't you not see how really serious this is and you and trump are excusing it away cause you're worried that hillary will somehow win. SHE LOST AND GOOD RIDDANCE. But that doesn't mean any human being on this planet should be excusing these hacks, especially taken as a whole, these same hackers, whether you believe they're russian or not, have targeted US and when i say US i mean all of us, including european countries, and asian countries, our financial systems, our infrustructure, our military, and for some reason people keep politicizing it, and excusing it. FUCK THAT BULLSHIT.

[shrunken]

Explain to me then, show me proof of the russians hacking the election, the US spends half its time saying how weak the Russians are.. the other half demonizing them and saying they hacked the almighty US.. so which is it.. are the Russians a feared enemy, or a joke? the US can't even keep its story straight..

There has been 0 proof of the election hacking.

It would be pretty nice if people could stop using "hack the election" as a phrase. Nobody is claiming the voting process was hacked in any way, which is certainly what the phrase is desperately trying to imply without having to commit to being ostensibly untrue.

If people don't think countries have been snooping each others' internal correspondence to the fullest extent of their capability since the dawn of time, those people are incredibly naive. If you don't want to be embarrassed by the content of your emails, don't have scandalous emails.

*For what it's worth, this entire discussion is exactly why the Secretary of State can't have an unsecured server in her basement and be passing around classified documents well beyond the boundaries of protocol. The whole world is interested in reading whatever they can get their hands on.

[lonely zergling]

Even if a foreign country tried to influence the election whats so wrong about that? You Americans do it all the time. Your organisations spy on everything.

Exposing the flaws of the democrats and the corruption that is going on is basic information that everyone should have acces to before a election.

[Daelak]

I didn't say "incriminating". I said unethical and greased, or something similar.

The DNC acted completely out of their rights. They've made a favorite, then manipulated the public image to make her win.

Podesta had several e-mails that directly linked Hillary's managers with the Medias, to the extent which they'd even write some questions to ask Trump on live TV. We saw some journalists borderline breaking down in those e-mails when they said a mistake on live TV that could've hurt the Democrats.

People can be astounded by the complete lack of ethicalities from the DNC and still not buy into the whole Pizzagate/Spirit Cooking madness.

As for Russia, well, no comments here. Again, I don't like them, I don't see why you keep trying to point things I agree with (mostly).

If we were shown the emails from the Trump campaign and the RNC at the same time, you would have identical questions and conversations with the media. How partisan do you have to believe that a question about water in flint in a town hall in michigan as the "media is conspiring"?

[Elim Garak]

It would be pretty nice if people could stop using "hack the election" as a phrase. Nobody is claiming the voting process was hacked in any way.

That's why they say "hack the election" and not "hack the voting process", you know two different things in scope. Voting's being only a part of elections.

[Allerius]

Wow I am so satisfied by this response, please go tell the CIA and our other intelligence agencies there isn't anything to worry about.

The CIA can be concerned about Russian hacking capability without being worried about this particular incident. The response is to get better at cybersecurity, not throw a fit at Russia. There have been stories about Chinese hackers for a long time now as well, funny how those were given such little public concern.

Btw, the DNC is a private non government organization.

[Ulmita]

If we would only do something like that to remove Greece from NATO.....

Who is going to be teaching your pilots how to fly then man?

[Felya]

So long as all we are doing is bitch slapping Russia, no harm done even if it is made up.

Russia has an upper hand due to language. A far greater population of Russia speaks enouph English to get the crux of many things you find in our media. Russian on the other hand, is not easy for most westerners to read. What ends up happening, is that the west gets half the story and Russia has an abundance of resources to react.

For example, how many know that Samantha Bee's comedy show at least had adds running for her segment on Russian internet trolls swaying the election? How about Russian TV running a special that American journalists are liars, because they had a guy wearing the same shirt as the troll on Samantha Bee's show, saying he made it all up?

[shrunken]

That's why they say "hack the election" and not "hack the voting process", you know two different things in scope. Voting's being only a part of elections.

Well they didn't hack "the election" either. They allegedly hacked the DNC and RNC, neither of whom answer to the name, "The Election". And again, if you don't want to be embarrassed by the content of your correspondence, don't have embarrassing correspondence.

[Kryos]

Enlighten us as to what you consider "laughable" about their findings.

The IP addresses that DHS provided may have been used for an attack by a state actor like Russia. But they don’t appear to provide any association with Russia. They are probably used by a wide range of other malicious actors, especially the 15% of IP addresses that are Tor exit nodes.

The malware sample is old, widely used and appears to be Ukrainian. It has no apparent relationship with Russian intelligence and it would be an indicator of compromise for any website.

---

You think that the Russia government would use outdated software public (P.A.S. Webshell) available from Ukraine? It seems more and more that Trump (and I hate this con man egomaniac) was in the right ballpark when he suggested that the hacker could be a guy in a basement because it looks like that. A single person with a private agenda (maybe he doesn't like democrats, maybe he loves Trump, maybe he has other reasons) seem to be behind the "hacks". The "hack" was also only possible because the email security of the DNC politicians is shitty at best.

Those 65+ year old computer illiterate politicians need to wake up and have a professional set up a really secure multi layered encrypted email service for them. They behave like toddlers in this new cyberspace and cry when they burn their fingers on the hot plate.

[Daelak]

The CIA can be concerned about Russian hacking capability without being worried about this particular incident. The response is to get better at cybersecurity, not throw a fit at Russia. There have been stories about Chinese hackers for a long time now as well, funny how those were given such little public concern.

Btw, the DNC is a private non government organization.

Because the Chinese hacking operations were nowhere near the scale and scope that Russia has been performing for over a year on all western democracies. People such as yourself have helped the objective of the Russians because of your hatred of the other side. The Russians got a great return on their investment because they never knew the US right wing would assist them in the degradation and inundation of false information to distort how the public views important topics.

Great, I guess we should let foreign governments run roughshod over all private US interests then.

[Allerius]

Your whole argument basically shows the danger of one sided information release. And yes, intentionally releasing information to harm the opponent of your prefered candidate is tampering. I have no issue with overt influence.

So what is this danger exactly? That one candidate of one of the two major parties won (which likely could have happened anyway) and governs until the next election or until they are impeached? Truly the doom of the world as we know it.

The harm to the opponent occurred because of the sins of the opponent. I don't understand how you can get upset that what the DNC did was exposed to the public instead of being upset at the DNC for what they did. And again, you have no proof the release was one sided. For all you know Chinese hackers got into the RNC but didn't find anything.