[Legion] Brusalk's Destro Guide

[Toastiekins]

Are you implying this system is bad?

No, why would I do such a thing?

Anyway, you said to wait until hitting p2 to feel less useless on the fight and you're right about that. Just starting some p3 and I'm back to feeling useless again. Hurray.

[Deleted]

Cb bracers will still be bis, don't see a reason that would change with everything else getting nerfed.

Having an instant portal can be useful outside of situations where the entire raid needs it, it's just gonna be niche.

I was just about to come here to ask about those - just got the Magistrike bracers from a cache - wondering where they'd slot in.

Currently have the cloak, CB bracers and Sephuz - I'm curious as to which one people would consider weakest for Mythic+'s, I've found Sephuz far more useful than I'd suspected, even when raiding there's often enough adds that you can throw out a stun on, it made Odyn pretty fun until P3. Kinda bummed that all 3 of my legendaries are competing for the same multi-target niche, I'd kill for the belt, though I'm rambling on.

Besides the obvious "cleave with no stun targets" fights where Sephuz is useless, what do people think will be most optimal - Cloak + bracers?

[Deleted]

I was just about to come here to ask about those - just got the Magistrike bracers from a cache - wondering where they'd slot in.

Currently have the cloak, CB bracers and Sephuz - I'm curious as to which one people would consider weakest for Mythic+'s, I've found Sephuz far more useful than I'd suspected, even when raiding there's often enough adds that you can throw out a stun on, it made Odyn pretty fun until P3. Kinda bummed that all 3 of my legendaries are competing for the same multi-target niche, I'd kill for the belt, though I'm rambling on.

Besides the obvious "cleave with no stun targets" fights where Sephuz is useless, what do people think will be most optimal - Cloak + bracers?

for mythic+ Sephuz + Bracers are going to be best by a very extremely long shot.

For raiding it comes down to each individual fight. For example for Guarm all 3 legendaries are "useless" besides having ilvl 910 stats. But on helya all 3 are okay with the Bracers being the very best.

Whats good about the Cloak is when you are fighting odyn, and you are specced into wreak havoc, you basically can keep that up/refresh that while moving to gain the 8%.

Normally you'd probably wear the cloak + bracers for raiding and the bracers + ring for mythic+ dungeons or fights where you can make a lot of use the proccs

[Baconeggcheese]

@Nagassh For mythic+ I imagine sephuz should beat the cloak pretty easily, especially with the 7.1.5 buff. Magistrikes are destro bis any time they can see procs.

With your 3 I'd probably end up wearing magistrikes all the time with the other 2 swapping out depending on usefulness. If you can proc sephuz consistently every 30~ish seconds it should be better (moreso after the buffs), and if you're going to just have lots of or constant cleave, especially if you don't have anything to proc sephuz then cloak will be better.

[Uzkin]

Currently, Sephuz's Secret proc is roughly a 0% DPS increase in dungeons if you don't "game" it in any way. This is because its "cast time" is 1.5 seconds (Shadowfury) and its "damage per cast time" (DPCT) may be calculated by taking the extra damage gained during the next 10 seconds and dividing it by 1.5 sec. 15% haste roughly equals +15% DPS. Assuming your non-hasted DPS is X, the extra damage gained from the Sephuz proc is 0.15*X*10 = 1.5*X. Dividing this by the cast time (1.5) yields DPCT = X, that is, a 0% DPS increase.

Of course, it's not hard to "game" the ring: you just have to replace a low priority action (= a spell with DPCT < your average DPS) with Shadowfury. In 7.1.5, Sephuz will be a DPS increase no matter what, as long as you can activate it (and the mobs don't die too fast).

Edit. typos fixed.

[Deleted]

With 7.1.5 coming out soon (tomorrow/Wednesday already maybe?), I have a couple of questions:

I am in the fortunate situation where I have both the Belt & Bracers.

For m+:
- With the nerf to Belt (probably not so bad) and Bracers (much more significant) and the talent changes, which talent build would you recommend? I'm currently tending towards BD, RE, Cata, GoServ (Sac nerfed) with Imp, Demonfire. (Shadowfury and Shield aside)

Is there any change to the stat priority due to the changes?

[Baconeggcheese]

which talent build would you recommend?

Only thing I think I'd change is RE to ELT, since you're basically an aoe focused build now and ELT affects aoe where RE is basically doing nothing for you.

Is there any change to the stat priority due to the changes?

Nope

[Duckz0rs]

Only thing I think I'd change is RE to ELT, since you're basically an aoe focused build now and ELT affects aoe where RE is basically doing nothing for you.

There's really no way RE is going to compete with ELT, is there? What about backdraft? Will it still outweigh RB until we get 4p? Not looking forward to 3s CB casts in the slightest, given the insane amount we launch per fight...

[Baconeggcheese]

There's really no way RE is going to compete with ELT, is there? What about backdraft? Will it still outweigh RB until we get 4p? Not looking forward to 3s CB casts in the slightest, given the insane amount we launch per fight...

When derping around with lil anecdotal mini-tests on the PTR I got really similar results from different talent builds for patchwerk . My favorite ended up being BD + eradication + SH + serv + SC. That averaged out roughly the same within the margin of RNG that I was seeing with RB + CDF while wearing the tier bonus. You'd just end up with these strings of pumping out really fast CB's between BD and the 2p with all the shard refunds. SC just scales really well with increased shard gen, and RB scales really poorly with increased shard gen because you have to balance trying to spend shards and using RB properly which favors BD helping you spend the abundance of shards. Which also gets worse when you have the belt.

That response I was giving socronoss was specifically about mythic+ though, and I just don't see RB being realistic to use in M+. I think what'll ultimately kill RE is all these cast time reduction effects were getting between tier and potentially using BD. The mana it gives you is fairly useless because destro barely uses mana in the first place, the benefit is from the CB cast time reduction. So you need to be gaming that quite a bit in order for RE to be truly competitive, I could see that happening while you're floating around 4 targets where there's a lot of shards coming in but it isn't worth aoeing yet but that's about it.

[Deleted]

When derping around with lil anecdotal mini-tests on the PTR I got really similar results from different talent builds for patchwerk . My favorite ended up being BD + eradication + SH + serv + SC. That averaged out roughly the same within the margin of RNG that I was seeing with RB + CDF while wearing the tier bonus. You'd just end up with these strings of pumping out really fast CB's between BD and the 2p with all the shard refunds. SC just scales really well with increased shard gen, and RB scales really poorly with increased shard gen because you have to balance trying to spend shards and using RB properly which favors BD helping you spend the abundance of shards. Which also gets worse when you have the belt.

That response I was giving socronoss was specifically about mythic+ though, and I just don't see RB being realistic to use in M+. I think what'll ultimately kill RE is all these cast time reduction effects were getting between tier and potentially using BD. The mana it gives you is fairly useless because destro barely uses mana in the first place, the benefit is from the CB cast time reduction. So you need to be gaming that quite a bit in order for RE to be truly competitive, I could see that happening while you're floating around 4 targets where there's a lot of shards coming in but it isn't worth aoeing yet but that's about it.

yeah that is something I was thinking about aswell. Roaring Blaze does sound good on paper with 3 charges pumping into it and the reduced cooldown on top of that, but it makes you less flexible. Especially when switching to priority targets.

I wonder what it feels like to have Gul'Dan trinket, T19 4piece, ilvl 905+, like 35%~ haste, BD, Heroism and Feretory. Must be pretty insane

I guess T19 4pc with Shadowburn doesn't stand a chance against RB/BD?

[Deleted]

Only thing I think I'd change is RE to ELT, since you're basically an aoe focused build now and ELT affects aoe where RE is basically doing nothing for you.



Nope

Thanks! So life tapping is back then. Great...

So then trash packs would be ELT --> Cata --> RoF (to get rid of shards and avoid overcapping) --> CDF and then maybe a (non-talented) havoc and 1-2 CBs?

For 2-target trash, do you use your (non-talented) havoc for spreading the immolate or does it make more sense for CBs? Or even CDF?

I have to say, I've never been so unsure of how to play my warlock after the change than at this moment.

[Deleted]

Thanks! So life tapping is back then. Great...

So then trash packs would be ELT --> Cata --> RoF (to get rid of shards and avoid overcapping) --> CDF and then maybe a (non-talented) havoc and 1-2 CBs?

For 2-target trash, do you use your (non-talented) havoc for spreading the immolate or does it make more sense for CBs? Or even CDF?

I have to say, I've never been so unsure of how to play my warlock after the change than at this moment.

but you are not going to life tap much with the Tier 19 set bonus since most of what you are going to do is Conflag (low mana cost) and Chaos Bolt(no mana cost). That is probably also the reason why ELT is not thaaaaaaaaaat great, because you would use ELT than you'd normally use life tap

[Baconeggcheese]

I wonder what it feels like to have Gul'Dan trinket, T19 4piece, ilvl 905+, like 35%~ haste, BD, Heroism and Feretory. Must be pretty insane

You'd go way past the gcd and would cast a really fast CB followed by you just standing there until the gcd finished.

That is the biggest "issue" with the gul'dan trinket, its cast reduction and not haste so it loses a ton of value for many classes and in the case of destro where you have tons of different sources of cast reduction it risks pushing you past the gcd.

Thanks! So life tapping is back then. Great...

So then trash packs would be ELT --> Cata --> RoF (to get rid of shards and avoid overcapping) --> CDF and then maybe a (non-talented) havoc and 1-2 CBs?

For 2-target trash, do you use your (non-talented) havoc for spreading the immolate or does it make more sense for CBs? Or even CDF?

I have to say, I've never been so unsure of how to play my warlock after the change than at this moment.

You'd just maintain ELT all the time, and yeah you'd cata and then dump shards and CDF. CDF is currently bugged with havoc, so you'd absolutely want to use it with havoc. Even if it weren't bugged you'd still want to fit CDF and as many CB's as you can into havoc and ofc use havoc on CD where appropriate.

[Deleted]

So wait do the imp, trinkets, rifst etc. benefit from Eradication or not?

In normal raiding environment, where you actually do have to move from time to time, ELT might be better simply because of if rifts, conflags are on cooldown you can use instant globals for ELF I guess

hmm

[Baconeggcheese]

They don't benefit from eradication or ELT iirc.

You plan your rift / conflag usage around movement. The 4p actually helps a lot in that regard (if you're not using RB) because you can sit on 2 conflag charges and conflag comes much more frequently as well as the change to BD where its on a charge system instead of being time based. Being able to refresh ELT will have value as well, but you already have a significant number of movement tools to the point where if you have to use ELT to mitigate movement there's probably a problem.

[Netherspark]

Is there any consensus yet on whether Potion of Prolonged Power is better/worse than Deadly Grace?

[MrHappy]

Hi,

I've just done a WQ Heroic Dungeon with another Destro lock...
Having a little chat afterwards...
He was running like 45% Mastery vs my 79% Mastery...and then he had more crit compared to me...
my stats
Crit 18%
Haste 27%
Mastery 79%

Can someone advise if I should lose alot of the mastery?
Armory

Any info would be much appreciated..
Thanks

Mastery is a really really really terrible stat. I've ran Sims and the stat weights for me are Int >> Vers >= Crit >= Haste >> Mastery

Basically atm if an item is higher level and it doesn't have matery it is an upgrade for me. granted this is with my current gear so your results may vary but your dps will be better if you don't have mastery

[Baconeggcheese]

Is there any consensus yet on whether Potion of Prolonged Power is better/worse than Deadly Grace?

They're basically the same in ST and prolonged power is outright better in multi-target. If you need burst you use deadly grace, otherwise you pmuch always use prolonged power.

- - - Updated - - -

Mastery is a really really really terrible stat. I've ran Sims and the stat weights for me are Int >> Vers >= Crit >= Haste >> Mastery

Basically atm if an item is higher level and it doesn't have matery it is an upgrade for me. granted this is with my current gear so your results may vary but your dps will be better if you don't have mastery

It really isn't that bad for destruction. My stat weights at their farthest are something like haste = 1.06 and mastery = .95. There's hardly a difference to the point where its more like ilvl >>>> secondaries.

Jewelry is the only case where you have to take a real hard look at it since its swinging such large amounts of secondaries.

[Uzkin]

The only good thing about legion destro mastery is that, because of it, versatility no longer *feels* like the worst secondary stat. Blizzard managed to come up with something that feels even worse! But hey, at least it feels nice whenever you get an upgrade which allows you to get rid of a large amount of mastery.

[Gaidax]

Mastery is fine, I have no idea where this Mastery is terrible BS coming from, from all the sims and such it comes out only a tiny tiny bit less powerful than other stats at worst, certainly not something you want to sacrifice ilvl to avoid and it does come with some defensive properties, which is nice.

As a matter of fact, Destruction secondaries are very nicely balanced as long as you pass certain not very high haste threshold.