Is the problem the game itself or Blizzard as a company?

[ImpTaimer]

WoW core gameplay was at its peak with WotLK, as was the sub count.

Cata post-merger team drastically changed core gameplay ontop of cut and reused content. It's almost like the game was remade by a new dev team, for new players, inspite of the current playerbase.

Every expansion after Cata had (mostly) failed attempts to change core-gameplay further away from its roots. A proverbial "It's my turn."

And then you get bullshit moves to back-seat monitor their own forums with Real-ID, Facebook, and Twitter integration. Then they have the nerve to tell people to post on Twitter to reach a blue poster even if the official forum is having no issues? Because they want Twitter to moderate posts for them. A safe-place for devs to shit-talk their own customers.

Gameplay no longer drives players, just content. Legion tried to inflate content with RNG and time-gates, it lasted a couple months at best. There's no reason to "experience the game all over again" by leveling a character from 1-100 because it means further time-gating yourself.

The shallow gameplay can't keep people justifying a sub fee, except maybe the FotM rerollers who have no self-worth. People might resub for a new patch or holiday event (and now they're adding micro holidays, coincidence?).

The post-merger devs are narcissistic jokes who constantly shelter themselves in the safe place that is Twitter. Any attempt to criticize them results in summoning the hoard of "culture" addicts who care nothing for the game and only the perceived pseudo-"family".

And for the record, I haven't payed a sub fee since Tokens were introduced and I don't plan on it until the post-dev team gets fired or they back-peddle all the trash class-revamp shit since Cata.

[WowIsDead64]

????

I am a U.S. player who logs in daily to play with a large very active guild full of players from all over. We have players from Europe and Latin America in our guild. We have TWO 20-man raid teams progressing atm, and M+ groups forming 24/7 in Discord. We hang out together, laugh it up, and have a good time. None of us talk about brainless grindfest; we just have fun playing and it all works out.

Don't get me wrong; I'm fine with you or anyone else deciding the game isn't for you anymore, but pretending you speak for all players is pretty silly.

Don't get me wrong too, but you should know (we know it since Cata), that guilds/mythic raiders - are minority. Only about 10% of playerbase max. There was some info in the past, that only 30% (!!!) players raid (including LFR). Other players are either PVP or play completely casually. That's why I don't understand this situation. Who is target auditory for Blizzard? Who? I had always been thinking, that casual players, who play just for fun - is their target auditory. But... I'm exactly such kind of player and since Cata I haven't been feeling, that game has been developed for me. Now it's being developed for two groups of players: 1) For competitive players 2) For Chinese grinders. And, I guess, it's the real reason, why it collapses so fast.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Don't get me wrong too, but you should know (we know it since Cata), that guilds/mythic raiders - are minority. Only about 10% of playerbase max. There was some info in the past, that only 30% (!!!) players raid (including LFR). Other players are either PVP or play completely casually. That's why I don't understand this situation. Who is target auditory for Blizzard? Who? I had always been thinking, that casual players, who play just for fun - is their target auditory. But... I'm exactly such kind of player and since Cata I haven't been feeling, that game has been developed for me. Now it's being developed for two groups of players: 1) For competitive players 2) For Chinese grinders. And, I guess, it's the real reason, why it collapses so fast.

We have lots of casual players in our guild, and all of us play just for fun. If I wasn't having fun, I wouldn't play. And despite your forum name, I don't see any fast collapse. Our guild is growing and thriving, our server is busy, and we're all looking forward to 7.1.5.

[rda]

Don't get me wrong too, but you should know (we know it since Cata), that guilds/mythic raiders - are minority. Only about 10% of playerbase max. There was some info in the past, that only 30% (!!!) players raid (including LFR). Other players are either PVP or play completely casually. That's why I don't understand this situation. Who is target auditory for Blizzard? Who? I had always been thinking, that casual players, who play just for fun - is their target auditory. But... I'm exactly such kind of player and since Cata I haven't been feeling, that game has been developed for me. Now it's being developed for two groups of players: 1) For competitive players 2) For Chinese grinders. And, I guess, it's the real reason, why it collapses so fast.

They don't have time lately to be thinking about who they are developing for. They are rapidly losing subs, so they do whatever they think will fix the situation in the short term. Unfortunately, they aren't good at fixes (as in, half of what they do makes things worse instead of better), plus they tend to lose steam all the time... and so we have Legion starting to fall and self-destruct almost as terribly as WoD did before it.

- - - Updated - - -

We have lots of casual players in our guild, and all of us play just for fun. If I wasn't having fun, I wouldn't play. And despite your forum name, I don't see any fast collapse. Our guild is growing and thriving, our server is busy, and we're all looking forward to 7.1.5.

Look at global player activity levels, the fast collapse is there.

[thilicen]

Actually, it's the players that are the problem. Cba to go into details but I wouldn't be surprised to see half of you lot win 10 million dollars in the lottery only to cry like fuck that the win wasn't big enough.

[Deleted]

I hate Blizzard with a passion too, but I still love the game

[Deleted]

Don't get me wrong too, but you should know (we know it since Cata), that guilds/mythic raiders - are minority. Only about 10% of playerbase max. There was some info in the past, that only 30% (!!!) players raid (including LFR). Other players are either PVP or play completely casually. That's why I don't understand this situation. Who is target auditory for Blizzard? Who? I had always been thinking, that casual players, who play just for fun - is their target auditory. But... I'm exactly such kind of player and since Cata I haven't been feeling, that game has been developed for me. Now it's being developed for two groups of players: 1) For competitive players 2) For Chinese grinders. And, I guess, it's the real reason, why it collapses so fast.

Colapses you say? LoL! This it the reason Blizzard caters to China
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/...d=warcraft.htm
You can take it from here...

[kamuimac]

When I talk to people that say they aren't pleased with the game anymore or that have even quit it seems to all come back to one thing. The game itself is entertaining and realistically there won't be any game you can play for 15 hrs a day for months and months and not get bored but what always seems to be the main issue is with Blizzard as a company.

I think the biggest problem with World of Warcraft is they just don't seem to know how to please their customers and over the years it feels like people are starting to dislike Blizzard as a company more than they dislike the game itself. We all remember when Ghostcrawler was around everybody hates this guy, they blamed him for the downfalls of the game or their class being bad at the game even tweeting him and making rage forum posts about him.

Look at the situation we are in now. Players are completely lost they don't know when 7.1.5 is going to come, they don't know when 7.2 is going to come. They have no idea how their class is going to turn out...The players are so lost and you can say "Blizzard has been on vacation!"...It literally takes 1 blue posts to "calm the community".

I cancelled my subscription not because I hate the game its just because I don't like Blizzard as a company and how they handle things and i'm sure others feel the same way. The biggest excuse people say is well casuals don't care about it its only the 1% that complain...Thats a fair statement maybe we are just the 1% but guess what we are the most passionate about the game. The casuals will quit but the 1% will stick it out because we just love the game. Yet we are often so punished because we are the minority instead of the majority and its sad really because its not impossible to please the 1% as people make it out to be.

World of Warcraft will always be a legendary game but I think 10 years from now when the game is probably no longer active and we talk about it to others we will say "that game was amazing but the developers/company etc were bad" and thats something that is going to hurt this games legacy.

there is no problem - there is just a bnch of few forum posters who are raging like crazy over nothing - the game will be much better and much less toxic without junkies who dont have fun in game anymore and refuse to let go instead just quit and make it much better place who those who enjoy game.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Look at global player activity levels, the fast collapse is there.

I could care less about global player activity levels, since they have no bearing on my in-game experience. Our server is certainly still busy. Our guild is growing. Dalaran is bustling every time I pass through.

As for the other, I'm guessing that's a natural cycle for every expansion. Lots of players subscribe to check it out, then many of them move on to other games. No movie rules at the box office forever; why should games?

[Spiral Mage]

The repost with "players are pieces of shit" is brilliant.

People on this game now are so unpleasant and toxic, it ruins the game for everyone.

People need to just play for fun and they won't have such a big fucking problem with it.

[Igi]

I'll be honest with you, a lot of wow players play 10+ hours a day. Even if Blizzard creates a perfect expansion they will become bored after 2 months. Warlords did suck, i agree, but if you think Legion has any major issues you're either burnt out from playing 12 hours every day or you're just a hateful person.

[rda]

I could care less about global player activity levels, since they have no bearing on my in-game experience. Our server is certainly still busy. Our guild is growing. Dalaran is bustling every time I pass through.

As for the other, I'm guessing that's a natural cycle for every expansion. Lots of players subscribe to check it out, then many of them move on to other games. No movie rules at the box office forever; why should games?

Well, global player activity levels don't care about you either, and of the two, they absolutely affect you more than otherwise. You know why your server is still busy? Because when the overall number of people goes down, they concentrate around a few activity centers. What was busy gets busier, and everything else dries up as people migrate (reroll or just plain transfer) to where life still remains. That's a known phenomenon, that's how these things happen.

The "natural cycles" weren't natural to WoW before WoD. That's in the graphs. WoD and now Legion are the only expansions with a dropoff that quick (several months) and that sharp (to half the peak and lower). WotLK had no dropoff worth talking about. Only one of Cata / MoP had a dropoff, and it was much slower and much milder than WoD/Legion's. That "it's cyclical" theory is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Ion and Co say "it's cyclical anyway, so we shouldn't bother too much, they will leave soon whatever we do" and people go "erm, the content ran dry again in two months, guess time to unsub".

[WowIsDead64]

We have lots of casual players in our guild, and all of us play just for fun. If I wasn't having fun, I wouldn't play. And despite your forum name, I don't see any fast collapse. Our guild is growing and thriving, our server is busy, and we're all looking forward to 7.1.5.

I'll give you an example - AP example. Unfortunately I don't have direct link, but article on Noob-club says, that according to Lore:
1) Blizzard don't want to nerf AP grind, cuz it would sadden SOME OTHER GROUP OF PLAYERS.
2) They can't fix problem without implementing some hard AP caps.
3) Time-gating Artefact Traits - is one of solutions.
4) If players don't want to farm AP 24/7 - nobody forces them to. It's their choice. Developers can't decide it on behalf of players. (EXTREMELY DOUBLE-STANDERDED STATEMENT - REMEMBER FLYING?)
5) Before implementation of AP grind players were spending large amount of time doing some other things, like gearing up alts. AP is different, but requires almost the same amount of time.
6) Anyway, devs learn lessons from this situation.

So... See? They cater to SOME OTHER GROUP OF PLAYERS, who prefer 24/7 AP grind. What group of players? China grinders?

[MoanaLisa]

It's very simple.

The problem is you.

Such a dumb thread.

Ignore Blizzard. Play the game; enjoy it or not. Life is short. Make the most of it. If this is your way of getting attention, it's unhealthy to write up stupid things just so people will tell you how wrong you are. There are better, healthier ways of getting attention. Do some good.

But back to the point: Enjoy the game or don't enjoy the game. If you don't enjoy the game, find another game. But for god's sake: stop stalking the forums like a jilted lover who can't let go.

[Santti]

Legion does have some problems, some of which are being fixed or alleviated in the near future, but not knowing when the patches are coming is not one of it's problems. Us knowing the release dates has never really been a thing, and that's fine.

And not knowing how their classes are going to turn out? How new are you to WoW to ask that? That's what WoW is, an ever evolving game. Nobody knows how the classes are going to turn out.

I honestly don't understand what you are complaining about.

[Cuppy]

It's not the game, it's Activision/blizzard/w/e.
They need to make lots of profit, so instead of trying to make a great game, they make..... profit.

So then, instead of putting resources to fixing the game, it's filled with collectibles and things that don't affect the game.
5000 new grey items to fish, toys you can use once per day while in your garrison alone.. It's all this. Profit.

[BannedForViews]

The game is fun.

What is not fun is the horrible choices the employees make, like putting very imbalanced legendaries in the game with a long time between acquiring them, and not realizing this will affect peoples ability to group. Or taking skills away from us and giving them back as talents, or moving things that make no sense, or buffing or nerfing things without any concern for how it will affect the class afterwards. I mean just look at the way they balance. It's always round numbers. 10%, 20%, 50%. You never see 1,2,3%, or god forbid 4.68%. The concern isn't tweaking things closer and never has been, it's broad sweeps to get people to shut up for a minute, or misdirect until they calm down and go away.

[Pull My Finger]

I think the biggest problem with World of Warcraft is they just don't seem to know how to please their customers and over the years it feels like people are starting to dislike Blizzard as a company more than they dislike the game itself.

Yeah. But that's because these customers are idiots that can't be satisfied. They're childish, they're miserable, they don't know what they want, they're incapable of taking responsibility for their own time management, they'r unreasonable, and on top of that they're taking it all personally. "Disliking the company" is a completely ridiculous concept to begin with and that itself is just a great indicator of what pathetic bunch we're dealing with here. That's all there is to it, really.

we are just the 1% but guess what we are the most passionate about the game. The casuals will quit but the 1% will stick it out because we just love the game.

A quite ridiculous assumption. You have absolutely no idea who is more or less "passionate". Special Snowflake syndrome in full effect. And being childish, whiny, upset, overly dramatic and bipolar about the game has nothing to do with "passion", it's just being an immature personality.

[Deleted]

People whine when the game is time-gated and restricted behind caps -> Blizzard introduces Mythic+ and AP -> the same people whine even more about being "forced" to play 24/7.

Obviously the fault is with Blizzard.

[Felaris Stormrage]

I genuinely disagree with Blizzard's design choice, especially, this expansion. Although, the player-base is by far the issue in this scenario. The fact of the matter, is that MMORPG(s) as a whole, are in a steady decline. It is no longer the late 90's, early 2000's, or mid-2000's, and this newer generation of gamer(s) are used to being instantly rewarded. Undoubtedly, people have less of an attention span, than before. This, coupled with WoW still being very much a work in progress, makes for a sticky situation.

Ultimately, I think Blizzard is headed in the right direction. If you don't enjoy the game, then, unsubscribe for awhile and comeback. It's not like they aren't changing the entire game each expansion.