[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Eleccybubb]

Yes, I was. I was presenting a hypothetical situation that would contradict his claim. This is questioning, as he had not shown that hypothetical situation would not obtain. I am not required to prove the hypothetical situation is true.



He showed that there are successful games that were both casual and hardcore. He did NOT show that the hardcore part was necessary to their success. To do that, he would have to show games that tried the all-casual approach and were less successful for that reason. Have there been such MMOs? We have all-hardcore games that didn't do well (and where the impaired performance can be reasonably attributed to doing that), but where's the evidence on the other side of the curve?

FF11 and Everquest. 2 games that were aimed specifically at that audience did quite well for their time. As for casual ones WoW was the casual alternative. And it's the most successful one to date. Guild Wars 2 and FF14 have high appeal to casual players and are the other top dogs.

[Osmeric]

FF11 and Everquest. 2 games that were aimed specifically at that audience did quite well for their time. As for casual ones WoW was the casual alternative. And it's the most successful one to date. Guild Wars 2 and FF14 have high appeal to casual players and are the other top dogs.

None of those show that hardcores are necessary for the success of an MMO, or that appealing to hardcores is a net plus for an MMO.

[unholytestament]

He showed that there are successful games that were both casual and hardcore. He did NOT show that the hardcore part was necessary to their success.

He also did not state they were necessary for success, just that successful games did that. There is a difference here, and if you're going to be this fucking pedantic you should recognize it.

[Deleted]

None of those show that hardcores are necessary for the success of an MMO, or that appealing to hardcores is a net plus for an MMO.

OFF-TOPIC : Having played wow for 10 yrs it was great reading twitter and Greg looking back

[Osmeric]

He also did not state they were necessary for success, just that successful games did that. There is a difference here, and if you're going to be this fucking pedantic you should recognize it.

"Successful games do X" is a universal assertion that you need to do X to be successful.

[Eleccybubb]

Well, idk about lfr, I do think flexible raids are a current WIP though.

I had my own idea a while back, back when WS was still making several million a month...so a long time ago.

it was a little content thought I had called Incursions, they were to be 10 man, 1-3 boss instances with reused models, and assets but with interesting telegraph patterns, they were meant to be like this games alternative to LFR, obviously Carbine didn't agree, though these days I can understand even with reusing a lot, it would be to much work to interfere with whatever they are/were working on (will find out tomorrow!)

Flex raids or 10 man better be. It needs something to make raiding more appealing. Honestly. That incursions idea sounds brilliant. It's basically smaller raids for 10 players.

[unholytestament]

"Successful games do X" is a universal assertion that you need to do X to be successful.

No, it's saying that X can be successful. It is not a statement that it is the only path to success because such a notion is ludicrous on its face.

[Katchii]

No, it's saying that X can be successful. It is not a statement that it is the only path to success because such a notion is ludicrous on its face.

It's saying that X has been successful in the past, not that it CAN be...it IS successful. You are correct in saying that it is not the only way to be successful, though, since obviously we wouldn't get new features without innovation. But when every successful competitor in your genre has X feature, and that feature is well liked, you'd be a fucking moron not to include it or something like it in your game.

[unholytestament]

It's saying that X has been successful in the past, not that it CAN be...it IS successful. You are correct in saying that it is not the only way to be successful, though, since obviously we wouldn't get new features without innovation. But when every successful competitor in your genre has X feature, and that feature is well liked, you'd be a fucking moron not to include it or something like it in your game.

Except when you're arguing with someone this pedantic they can just shoot back "Oh, so it's ALWAYS successful? Well what about X, Y and Z that weren't! HA HA HA! I totally got you there despite the fact that this is nowhere near your point!"

[Katchii]

Except when you're arguing with someone this pedantic they can just shoot back "Oh, so it's ALWAYS successful? Well what about X, Y and Z that weren't! HA HA HA! I totally got you there despite the fact that this is nowhere near your point!"

True... I can't stand zealots. I'm separating a game from it's features though. Meaning, just because successful Game X has Y feature doesn't automatically make Y successful and/or great. Like WoW and Garrisons for example, pretty universally known for being a not so great feature, though some people may enjoy them.

[Puupi]

True... I can't stand zealots. I'm separating a game from it's features though. Meaning, just because successful Game X has Y feature doesn't automatically make Y successful and/or great. Like WoW and Garrisons for example, pretty universally known for being a not so great feature, though some people may enjoy them.

Garrison was a great (side)feature. Garrison wasn't the problem in WoD, the lack of all other content was.

[Calfredd]

Garrison was a great (side)feature. Garrison wasn't the problem in WoD, the lack of all other content was.

Well garrisons a bit and the fact some zones didn't have coherent stories (Gorgrond's different questing experience ending the same didn't make sense and Doomhammer suddenly becoming a good guy).

[Edge-]

Alright folks, let's keep discussion on topic, please.

[Katchii]

Garrison was a great (side)feature. Garrison wasn't the problem in WoD, the lack of all other content was.

Lack of content was a problem yes, but that's not a "feature." I wasn't trying to infer that Garrisons were why WoD was bad, just picked a WoW feature that wasn't universally considered "successful." Garrisons were a feature. IMO Garrisons were pretty bad overall, cool for the story and really cool to see the progression of but made the world feel incredibly boring and empty since you could do practically everything there was to do from your Garrison, they just weren't done right. They spent a lot of time implementing Garrisons which likely ended up with some features not being added that could have been. It's subjective, and your opinion differs from mine, which is fine and expected.

Update: Sorry Edge, sat on the reply a while and didn't see your post until I hit submit. I'll keep it on topic.

[Deleted]

Hi all,

I haven't read all of the thread but was hoping I could pass on my thoughts for wildstar.

wildstar f2p model is so fair it feels like it's practically crowd funded o_O

I came at it from having played wow a lot, then rift a bit and I've really enjoyed it, it's always been about group pve content for me. I leveled to 50 on an esper then joined a guild as a healer, this was shortly after f2p and I leveled healer, as I hate leveling/grinding in mmo's.

I still don't like leveling much, but I do now feel it's painless (relative to wow 50-100). The later leveling zones in Grimvault are really fun, I've also really enjoyed the Blighthaven, Nursery World story quest, it's a nice solo in Genetic Archives gear I have eng, warr, esper and medic at max lvl and mostly datascape equipped now, despite not playing a huge amount(older player). Coming from fps before mmo's, I like the combat system, sprint, dash etc, I suppose it's just more resource/micro management.

The LFG tool which they broke with cross-faction queuing needs fixing asap, and needs to be publicised so that people do queue via the system. If I'm in a guild vet run with 3 it's easier just to pull people out of global chat than queue for an indefinite period, this feels like it excludes the new player from a feature expected in an mmo now. With the point the game is at, scaling in vets, and more would be good.

Flex raids would be great, I've been tank since March and my guild has only just killed Avatus, and the roster boss. Perhaps get a chance to dps now

An updated official Guide should be created, using video where necessary (the UI takes a bit of getting used to, there is a lot you can change, but it is an initial usability clusterf**k). This should then be hung from the chandeliers of anywhere they can (carbine though - publicity isn't their thing). One of the issues the game seems to have is a lack of a repository for information which is known not to be deprecated.

I've enjoyed all my raiding in wildstar so far, still have Redmoon to do, but like any group pve content, a certain type of person enjoys a challenge; the Dungs and Genetic Archives can just be facerolled by a datascape geared group, cheesing whole mechanics with output. GA would become fun with 7 -10 now, but certain boss mechanics prevent completing it, though it's healthy for people wanting to pug it.

On the community - some of what you see in global chat is banter, the community is small and two parties may have been jibing at each other like that for 2 years (married couple if you like), there is some outright childishness (it's an MMO) but I haven't found the community to be toxic at all. There is tongue-in-cheekness to the whole wildstar concept and I think sometimes this carries over to it's participants. Some people are die hard fans, they mean well for the game, but for that to turn into "leave" isn't a good thing. There are some "tools", as there appears to be in any walk of life, but there is a good proportion of players who are willing to help.

Generally asking in /a will get you advice should you need it. Guilds are always accepting applicants, I prefer to level a char to max in any game before applying to a guild, but many will accept leveling characters.

I like the game and the community at large, and would very much like it to succeed, but it seems that unless there is a "rabbit out of the hat" moment or real investment, it simply won't be maintainable, I hope I'm wrong.

[Deleted]

http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/ne...ves-january-6/

Get those glad rags on and come and kill me....you know it's what you want

[Kelimbror]

Having different dates for different factions makes no sense. None. This is just another example of how they mismanage this game. Love the flip out of the game, but god if they aren't always trying to shoot themselves in the foot with idiocy.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, their use of currency is fucking terrible:

Go toe-to-toe with the enemy and (win or lose) you’ll earn Battle Bits—a tradable event currency. You’ll get more Battle Bits for a win, of course, and once you’ve saved up enough Battle Bits you’ll want to visit Arnie “The Exchanger” Vandragg in Conqueror’s Square in Illium, or Champion’s Corner in Thayd. Arnie will exchange your Battle Bits for Krogg Kash, which you can then use at the guy next to him—Sly “The Collector” Lundggor—to purchase Battle Chase rewards like housing décor.

I get a currency, to trade for another currency, to trade for a gamble box, to open and get an item. Remember when events used to be 'get a currency, buy items'? I've always thought they have too many flipping currencies, but damn if they don't make their events sheisty as all get out...at least you don't have to pay real money for keys to open the crates. That would be a riot...again.

[Edge-]

Having different dates for different factions makes no sense. None. This is just another example of how they mismanage this game. Love the flip out of the game, but god if they aren't always trying to shoot themselves in the foot with idiocy.

Wow, didn't even notice that...I'm genuinely curious as to why they have it set up that way. Best I can figure is that they don't have confidence that it will all work at once so are splitting up the start dates for each faction to mitigate the number of people impacted in case it breaks?

I don't know, even that doesn't' make a lick of sense to me. Damnit Carbine, stop screwing up random shit that you have no reason to screw up! I hopped in over the break to mess around on my engineer alt and remembered how enjoyable the moment to moment gameplay is, just wish the rest of the game could be a quarter as awesome.

Also, their use of currency is fucking terrible:

That jumped out to me the first time I read through it. Literally what the fuck is going on at Carbine nowadays.

[Kelimbror]

That jumped out to me the first time I read through it. Literally what the fuck is going on at Carbine nowadays.

They've had a weird issue with currency even before F2P, but it got waaaay worse when they went F2P. I get it, different content has different currency...but to have currency that buys currency that buys items, that's just to provide a veil of how much effort equates to how much money if you skip the line and buy boxes from the cash shop. That doesn't explain why they have a hardon for currency in the normal game, but eh. It's the details they can never get right with this game and it has a weirdly magnified effect on you when you play it.

I've been playing over the holidays because I had a lot of time off. Legion has been fantastic, but I cannot stick with any game for a continuous amount of time. I forgot how much fun it is to play, even to just do the same damn daily areas over again. Arcterra is a total fail without people there playing nonstop. When it is the T3, it is a real zone working as intended. When it's not, it's a ghost town. Luckily I can solo everything but the group bosses on my esper, but it takes a while for some. I wish they would just add true scaling to everything and not have any group required content at this point.

[ryanmahaffe]

"Nowadays"

Uh-huh, the currency thing has been like that since like the end of 2015 when these events started.

The faction thing is to encourage Dominion activity, thats my theory anyway. Do little things like this, might make a few more of the populated Exiles go over at least for a few days.

Also, words like Idiocy, or mismanage really dont belong in a tiny insignificant 5 day event that has no other purpose than increasing pvp activity a little and bringing in a little doe for CRB, its the silliest thing to complain about really.

- - - Updated - - -

They've had a weird issue with currency even before F2P, but it got waaaay worse when they went F2P. I get it, different content has different currency...but to have currency that buys currency that buys items, that's just to provide a veil of how much effort equates to how much money if you skip the line and buy boxes from the cash shop. That doesn't explain why they have a hardon for currency in the normal game, but eh. It's the details they can never get right with this game and it has a weirdly magnified effect on you when you play it.

I've been playing over the holidays because I had a lot of time off. Legion has been fantastic, but I cannot stick with any game for a continuous amount of time. I forgot how much fun it is to play, even to just do the same damn daily areas over again. Arcterra is a total fail without people there playing nonstop. When it is the T3, it is a real zone working as intended. When it's not, it's a ghost town. Luckily I can solo everything but the group bosses on my esper, but it takes a while for some. I wish they would just add true scaling to everything and not have any group required content at this point.

I wouldn't call Arcterra a fail, it was released March 30th and didn't die out until like mid August, 5-6 months isn't to bad for a single zone to stay heavily active.

I dont give a shit about the pvp event, I love pvp, I just want to hear what is coming tomorrow. As in the reveal.