Is the problem the game itself or Blizzard as a company?

[Deleted]

The game is fine. The problem is the player base of entitled morons who think everything should revolve around them.

If they give you a release date of a patch and have to push it back, you'll bitch.
If it comes out before that date and you weren't prepared with stocking up salmon or whatever, you'll bitch.
If you don't know when it'll be out, you'll bitch.
If you play the game 15 hours a day and run out of shit to do, you'll bitch.
If you play an hour a day and can't keep up with everyone else, you'll bitch.

We can probably start to see a pattern here.

[Deleted]

Wtf? i realy like legion... i disliked any xpac after wotlk.. this one is the first for about 8 years i REALY enjoy.

Okay the legendary system is not well balanced, shoudve been supporting not damage legendarys. But ohh god.. i still like this system. Items which are doing something else then being a stat stick, the fact that you have to WORK ( yes you can work towards ur 4th or 5th legendary!! ) to earn something is so nice.

tldr: its ur problem, not blizzards.

[Struggle]

Well, that doesn't really take much.

Eh, figured I'd preface with "imo" since some people liked MoP for whatever reason outside ToT.

[Luko]

The problem is, and always will be, the players.

Bingo. There's simply too many players in this game to please everyone.

What does that mean? It means that the jaded naysayers who are hellbent on focusing on WoWs downfall and labeling Blizzard as an evil, misguided tyrant will always have a large group of people to draw their petty arguments from. If the game boasted 6 million players and 2 million of them got bored and left 4 months into an expansion, these pessimists would choose to focus on the 2 million who left, not the 4 million people who still pay to play it. If blizzard then added quality of life and content options to appeal to those 2 million players to bring them back, there would then be another 2 million who left due to personal reasons or not finding interest in the new content. The negative players then shout "ITS NOT WORKING! WE'RE STILL LOSING SUBS!"

At this point, I'm scratching my head as to why people still make threads like these. I'm all for open discussion but it's not an intelligent, original or deep topic. It's just paranoia seeking a larger scale of approval from random internet goers.

If you're going to unsubscribe from a videogame, PLEASE DO! It's a game, who would pay for entertainment that wasn't fun? But unsub quietly, on your own terms. Don't take to the soapbox and pretend that you're owed something you never received.

[Halicia]

The problem is, and always will be, the players.

With the (small) caveat that Blizzard exacerbates the core problem.

"Group Finder" is a helpful and necessary tool in most respects, especially with the crossrealm utility, but it creates the intermingling of players that might be best served playing dominantly in their Guild (or subset of the overall game population) instead of the population at large.

Charging fees for server/faction changes creates an unnecessary barrier to entry to a "more enjoyable game experience", imo... and leaves a lot more players in less then satisfactory "social experiences".

[Demithio]

"Is the problem the game itself or Blizzard as a company?"

Blizzard makes all decisions on what the game contains and what the game contains dictates how the players react to the game. I don't buy into the idea that Blizzard develops according to what the fan base "demands" on the forums. They develop according to what will be the most easy and cost effective for the company. So if WoW is a mess in its current state, there's no one to blame but Blizzard. They've become like many other development companies and stopped striving for content excellence and attention to detail in favor of larger profits.

[Zardam]

When I talk to people that say they aren't pleased with the game anymore or that have even quit it seems to all come back to one thing. The game itself is entertaining and realistically there won't be any game you can play for 15 hrs a day for months and months and not get bored but what always seems to be the main issue is with Blizzard as a company.

Play any game 15 hrs a day and it gets old. Its not chance that Blizzard had led the mmo community for a decade. They've released overwatch with monumental success. Wow sub numbers are the highest they've been in years. Blizz is doing fine.

[Kazgrel]

Play any game 15 hrs a day and it gets old. Its not chance that Blizzard had led the mmo community for a decade. They've released overwatch with monumental success. Wow sub numbers are the highest they've been in years. Blizz is doing fine.

I'd love to see proof of that assertion pertaining to sub numbers, but Blizzard has guaranteed that will no longer happen.

As for the OP, I tend to fall in the camp who blames the players; not all players, of course, but specifically those who, for whatever reason(s), are disenfranchised with the game yet continue to cling on, whether it's due to nostalgia, "love of the game" or whatever reason they can come up with.

[Struggle]

At this point, I'm scratching my head as to why people still make threads like these..

The same reason that people like you reply with posts like yours offering a critique or opposing opinion, because you want your voice heard.

The irony of you going after the OP while doing the exact same thing on the opposite end of the spectrum is hilarious though, so there's comedic value as well.

[Vylent]

Neither.

I am still playing and having fun. I love WoW, and I love Blizzard.

Don't know what is this TC ranting on about.

I agree with this. Legion has been one of the more entertaining expansions to date. I there room for improvements? Of Course! But all in all, I believe WoW is heading in a good direction.

+1 Blizzard

[xvshanevx]

It's possibly due to burn out.

This expac is asking a lot form it's player base in comparison to the following past 3 expansion in Cata, MoP, and WoD.

End game PvE content in Cata and MoP was all about 10 or 25 man raiding. There were no dungeons, mythic dungeons, M+ dungeons, Hyper-raid-like dungeons, and caches/World Events that gave relevant gear. Currently, I have meet many players at ilvl 875+ who haven't stepped foot into Mythic EN or Heroic ToV, yet they could easily pass now as "Mythic" raiders.

WoD was primarily an AFK simulator with your occasional raid day. But once again, no content outside raiding and garrisons.

Now, in Legion, there are so many avenues to high level gear in this expac, and many players seem to feel the need to have to do the content. In the past, just running Normal raids 10 or 25 man was all you needed for your character to be "near" the top. But now, just running Heroic (old-school Normal) raids is not enough to keep up with everyone else. You can actually fall very far behind if you just run Heroic EN and ToV (this is more due to loot being locked out weekly as to M+ being available all day, every day).

It's possible burn out. Take a little break from the game.

[Ryzael]

Because making content takes time and money. They can't just magically throw stuff out every few weeks.

In response to time gating, if they removed it, there would be tons of threads saying that the game was too short or too easy and there's nothing left to do because people who play 18 hours a day burned through it all in a week or two. There is nothing wrong with time gating, it's just these entitled brats who want instant gratification and have nothing better to do than play WoW all day.

You're right there's nothing wrong with time gating, but there is something wrong with the content if it's too short and easy without time gating.

There are a lot of games with far less content than WoW that I spent a lot more time playing with a lot less time gating, because those games had content that got more difficult after passing the tutorial.

[Molis]

This is not a Blizzard problem, it is a YOU problem.

I log on when I have free time, do five mans with my friends, maybe some WQ.
I enjoy the game and get out of it what I need.

You have some issue with controlling others play style, and wanting players to conform to your ideals.

and Holy Crap how many times are you going to call others "Pieces of Shit"

[nerf shaman]

I cancelled my subscription not because I hate the game its just because I don't like Blizzard as a company and how they handle things and i'm sure others feel the same way.

Please tell me you're going to stop posting on mmo forums now that you've canceled your subscription.

Also wow has had millions of active players for 12 years now. The only 2 games I can think of with anything near that level of longevity and success would be D2 and StarCraft: Brood War. Spoilers: both Blizzard games. They must be doing something right

[tyng1]

i feel now adays when people say blizzard they really mean activision... its been a slow decline since 2008.

[Grimlokh]

When I talk to people that say they aren't pleased with the game anymore or that have even quit it seems to all come back to one thing. The game itself is entertaining and realistically there won't be any game you can play for 15 hrs a day for months and months and not get bored but what always seems to be the main issue is with Blizzard as a company.

I think the biggest problem with World of Warcraft is they just don't seem to know how to please their customers and over the years it feels like people are starting to dislike Blizzard as a company more than they dislike the game itself. We all remember when Ghostcrawler was around everybody hates this guy, they blamed him for the downfalls of the game or their class being bad at the game even tweeting him and making rage forum posts about him.

Look at the situation we are in now. Players are completely lost they don't know when 7.1.5 is going to come, they don't know when 7.2 is going to come. They have no idea how their class is going to turn out...The players are so lost and you can say "Blizzard has been on vacation!"...It literally takes 1 blue posts to "calm the community".

I cancelled my subscription not because I hate the game its just because I don't like Blizzard as a company and how they handle things and i'm sure others feel the same way. The biggest excuse people say is well casuals don't care about it its only the 1% that complain...Thats a fair statement maybe we are just the 1% but guess what we are the most passionate about the game. The casuals will quit but the 1% will stick it out because we just love the game. Yet we are often so punished because we are the minority instead of the majority and its sad really because its not impossible to please the 1% as people make it out to be.

World of Warcraft will always be a legendary game but I think 10 years from now when the game is probably no longer active and we talk about it to others we will say "that game was amazing but the developers/company etc were bad" and thats something that is going to hurt this games legacy.

The problem was, is, and will be the players like you. Players who complain, cry about every little detail they can find, unsubscribe (or say that they do), but keep poping up on the forums to see if there`s people they can relate to. You people are like junkies. But fear not for I have a solution for you: don`t like the game? good, don`t play it! You have unsubscribed? Good for you! Congratz you got out of your addiction all by yourself! Now..go post it on Facebook or Twitter or whatev. Maybe there you`ll find someone who gives a fuck. Blizzard doesn`t owe you anything. You choose to play their games, or not. I order my pizzas in a place I like, if for some reason they change the recipee or the cheese is shit or whatev, I go to another Pizza place...never to look back. Life is like this...why games should be any different? SPECIALLY games, where you`re supposed to enjoy and have fun..and forget about work or "life is hard" or whatev reason you have

[Struggle]

Please tell me you're going to stop posting on mmo forums now that you've canceled your subscription.

Also wow has had millions of active players for 12 years now. The only 2 games I can think of with anything near that level of longevity and success would be D2 and StarCraft: Brood War. Spoilers: both Blizzard games. They must be doing something right

Activision-Blizzard doesn't even remotely compare to the quality of product the Blizzard North team put out. All 3 iterations of their signature titles that have released since they sold out have gone down immensely in quality objectively. Starcraft 2 is not as fun as Starcraft and Brood War, and Diablo 3 sure as shit doesn't hold a candle to Diablo 2 and Lord of Destruction.

[DarkTZeratul]

Activision-Blizzard doesn't even remotely compare to the quality of product the Blizzard North team put out. All 3 iterations of their signature titles that have released since they sold out have gone down immensely in quality objectively. Starcraft 2 is not as fun as Starcraft and Brood War, and Diablo 3 sure as shit doesn't hold a candle to Diablo 2 and Lord of Destruction.

1. Activision-Blizzard has shit-all to do with the actual development of anything, being little more than a holding company that handles the publishing and high-level financial considerations.
2. Blizzard North had shit-all to do with the original Starcraft and Brood War, which were both developed in Irvine.

[Apexis]

The game itself is entertaining and realistically there won't be any game you can play for 15 hrs a day for months and months and not get bored but what always seems to be the main issue is with Blizzard as a company.

I would say for me this statement is completely absurd. I started play this game in late 2008 and I have never stopped playing it since. I have never has a lapse in playing this game since I started playing it. Over the course of time I have gotten increasingly more casual, more so because of the player base, then the game or Blizzard themselves.

I think the biggest problem with World of Warcraft is they just don't seem to know how to please their customers and over the years it feels like people are starting to dislike Blizzard as a company more than they dislike the game itself. We all remember when Ghostcrawler was around everybody hates this guy, they blamed him for the downfalls of the game or their class being bad at the game even tweeting him and making rage forum posts about him.

I believe Blizzard over the years has done a pretty decent job of creating content year over year. I would say the only expansion that I have played to date that I least enjoyed playing was Warlords. The content outside of raiding was just not enough. The garrison could and should of been more of an after thought, than the bulk of the out of raid content. It should of been more like they have done with the Class Halls. While they are also not perfect they are far better than the amount of time to invest in a garrison that actually in the end produced so little in return. They are not ever going to please or even come close to pleasing each and ever person that plays this game. I have slammed them more than a handful of times for things they should of know better before they ever put them into game content. Generally though they have done enough to keep me wanting to play this game and I will continue to play it for as long I found something within the content I enjoy doing.

Look at the situation we are in now. Players are completely lost they don't know when 7.1.5 is going to come, they don't know when 7.2 is going to come. They have no idea how their class is going to turn out...The players are so lost and you can say "Blizzard has been on vacation!"...It literally takes 1 blue posts to "calm the community".

I have not seen a lot of whining ingame (I been reading all the chats while doing leveling alts and doing world quest) about when a non-content patch is coming out. Not sure why or how anyone is lost over mostly class changes in 7.1.5. With Nightfall coming in couple weeks, I would assume many are ready for new raid content, if they been beating to death the current for more than a month. I guess it is me, I deliberately don't go blowing through content. I always save something for later to do on characters like my main to do so I continue to want to play them after I have ground out everything non-raid content wise out of them.

The biggest excuse people say is well casuals don't care about it its only the 1% that complain...Thats a fair statement maybe we are just the 1% but guess what we are the most passionate about the game. The casuals will quit but the 1% will stick it out because we just love the game. Yet we are often so punished because we are the minority instead of the majority and its sad really because its not impossible to please the 1% as people make it out to be.

This statement is utter garbage. As someone that is nothing but casual now, you clearly have no idea what the heck you are talking about here. I have talked with many people that play very much the same way that I do and they are as passionate about the game now as they ever been. As someone that has never stopped playing the game since they started playing and you pushing words like "minority" and/or "majority" around like they mean something. Who cares what the 1% of the player base likes or does not like. As long as the bulk of the people that play this game all day long everyday are enjoying the game that is all that really matters, because they are the people that keep this game from not having more and more content made or Blizzard completely walking away from the game.

Not all of us spend our days whining and crying on the forums about things. Sure I have done my share of bitching over the years, but more on the level of how Blizzard chose to make conditions they way they are today, because of the actions they chose to go with that made the player base over time far more toxic when it never needed to get as bad has it has in more recent years. I meet up with a few dickheads here and there everyday on one character or another, but in large measure I have done my best to avoided them like the plague and enjoy the game and let them be the ass they were born to be.

World of Warcraft will always be a legendary game but I think 10 years from now when the game is probably no longer active and we talk about it to others we will say "that game was amazing but the developers/company etc were bad" and thats something that is going to hurt this games legacy.

I think people like yourself will be talking about the game in the light you currently speak. For me, this game has been nothing more than daily enjoyment for years. There is so much content that I have not done over time that I could literally still being playing long after Blizzard no longer makes new content or expansions for the game. I would probably be far more engaged with various aspects of group content, if it were not so much for the poor attitudes of a lot of people that play this game. I did not stop doing the bulk of group content because it was not fun and engaging. I stopped because I watch over time the player base get worse and worse over the years that I really just did not want to deal with all the BS that comes with doing the group content.

I not an expert player, I am not at the top of my game player. I am an average player that love the game and will always love the game, no matter how many or how few or how bad or good the player base was or is. I don't need others to enjoy playing this game, but when I going a dungeon group that clicks I run as many dungeons with those people that will continue to run them with me. If I going a group for doing world content the same happens there and so on and so forth. I love people that love to play the game and not worry about all the things outside of the game they have no control. In other words people that actually have patients not only with the game, but with people in general that they play the game with.

I started raiding in late BC. I enjoyed it so much I continued to do so in Wrath, Cata, and part of Mist. My best time was late BC through the end of Wrath. The guild I was in was a family guild, but they took doing any type of content with a lot of passion, but they also took and did it with a boatload of patients. They even allowed a few not so great people to raid with them. Sure they carried them until they got to understand the inter-workings of the game, mechanics, and the people they were raiding with. Where people might of lacked in one area, they more than shored up in others. The guild was about the guild and the people within the guild. No one ever felt like they were not apart of the guild all the way down to the person that only enjoy doing leveling content. Everyone helped one another, everyone did there share to make sure people felt welcome and were allowed the opportunity to thrive.

I bring this up, because as much as I enjoyed the guild, it folded at the end of Wrath because people got tired of play, got more busy outside of the game, or they just did want to play the content in Cata, or they saw where the game was heading and decided to get out before it went any further down hill than it already had by that point. I was difficult for me after that, I never really found another guild quite like that since. I guess, I was spoiled from the time I started playing this game that I was also naive to think there had to be more of the same else where. There might be, but I gave up looking in MoP. After so many, I just gave up trying. I decided then to just do what I could whenever my characters were strong enough to do the content. Along the way I found like minded people that enjoy the game as much as I did. The group finder over the last expansion into this one has allowed for me to open up my game more and more because I find people that enjoy the game and want to do content, without all the politics and BS that comes with doing most content these days.

So in the end of this rant here the bottom line is that you and your 1% buddies that want to do nothing more than whine and complain don't really matter to the bulk of the people that rather play the game, then worry about when the next patch is coming out or when am I going to get my next legendary item. Every time I get something that I would otherwise assume getting I end up receiving them long before I can ever use them. I got another legendary on my Warlock last night, but I can't use it until I get enough resource to upgrade my Class Hall. Just the same, I was not expect to receive it, so I had not been actually worried about upgrading the hall. Now I have a reason to want to grind out more resources.

[Luko]

The same reason that people like you reply with posts like yours offering a critique or opposing opinion, because you want your voice heard.

The irony of you going after the OP while doing the exact same thing on the opposite end of the spectrum is hilarious though, so there's comedic value as well.

The fuck are you going on about? I'm responding to an existing thread while staying on a preexisting topic and offering input on said topic. Meanwhile in your post...