Rift 4.0 - Starfall Prophecy

[Eleccybubb]

-snip

Did you really just bump a month and half old thread to spew rubbish about the game?

Also let's see.

1. Opens up no new possibilities at all. Just adds crappy powers to classes.
2. Cool along with the rest of the content advertised on the site... oh wait it's only just hit the PTS
3. Debatable. Reaver plays like shit now. So sure you can happily play the way you want if you want to purposely gimp yourself
4. How is endgame Expert dungeons being easy a good thing? Load of twaddle. There are literally no hard mechanics to them whatsoever just health pools increased to give the illusion of such. There are literally no threatening mechanics in these so called "experts"
5. It went down because of an initial minor skyrocket. No other reason. I saw it at that price back in NMT.
6. No it's not. When a fragment rolls worthless stats for your class/role then it's not fun. Even Legion has better RNG. You cannot figure a system based on RNG out because you have 0 fucking clue what it will roll.
7. Also if a game has a "very few" loyal players especially one like Rift I'd be worried. Raiding for example is in a dire state when only less than 30 guilds cleared Comet of Ahknet Normal when it was current content. Because well there is no current raid to use as an example because it's not in the game at the moment.

Oh and when an expansion launched with more than half the content disabled that is not "awesome". That means it wasn't ready to launch.

Oh and sweetheart Rift WILL be dead if they keep taking people for granted and releasing buggy messed content. I mean let's face it when there has to be a criticism thread made and people asking for refunds then there is something wrong.

As someone who has played, levelled and participated in the "content" I can say with all honesty save your money and avoid this game. I mean it's your credit card so on your own head be it but well this is essentially the MMO equivalent of Daikatana imo. I used to tell people to at try this game quite a bit but honestly when anyone asks me now I tell them there are better alternatives. Because there are.

[Jtbrig7390]

Rift will never be dead, As long as you see me, and Slipmat and a few other very loyal players =o

/wink

You can dream it as dead, But thats the best you can do =o

<3, Exxy

I needed the laugh this morning thx.

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Did you really just bump a month and half old thread to spew rubbish about the game?

Bet its Slipmats alt account.

[Frozenbeef]

Tried to play the new expansion but it was just too painful, they really need to prune half of the bloat from trees :/

[Eleccybubb]

Tried to play the new expansion but it was just too painful, they really need to prune half of the bloat from trees :/

Yep. Bloat is stupid. I mean don't dumb it down to WoWs level but Christ remove some buttons. But that really isn't it's only issue. There are far more glaring ones about this miserable pile of garbage.

This is your endgame content no joke.

Instanced Rift spamming for fragments. This is basically running from point A to B with no challenge whatsoever.
Dailies
3 70 dungeons and 1 is an upscale
PvP but even people are forsaking that.
70 zone isn't open yet and I'm sure our community ambassador said "A few weeks after launch". 6 weeks nearly 7 is more than a few.

In short this expansion has less content than WoD did at launch.

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I needed the laugh this morning thx.

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Bet its Slipmats alt account.

As much as I despise him. I don't believe he would do alt accounts.

[Exxy]

If you dont enjoy it, its ur choice

I know i love it, its all that matters <3

If you dont like it, dont play it

And Slipmat is an EU player, pretty sure I'm Exxy, Its quite Ironic, if you dont know me, you probably dont even play Rift ;o
But hey, WHat makes me happy, can make you sad

It feels like 4.0 has been designed for players likes me, who does all kind of things, and dont solely focus on gear/raids, and skipping everything else
I enjoy killing trash, I figure details from doing it, That gives more ideas, to create new thingies =o

Less Content?

Legendary Powers alone, changes everything
Sure, when you play MMO's like in the 2010's , You'll never enjoy Rift, thats granted

Not everyone can play 20+ Keybind builds
I'm sorry that you cant, I've took my time, and learned how to handle it
If you choose to play cookie cutters, and get frustrated when they get tweaked, Its ur own fault, Cause its fairly obvious, That overperforming builds, with minimal keybinds, should'nt perform top numbers

I can see coming Tweaks about souls, easily 3-4 weeks before they happen
If you cry, when they finally tweak them, What were you really expecting?

You'll have to evolve one day, I know its extremely demanding, and you probably dont have what it takes, But hey, You have to try <3

Sincerely, Exxy

[Eleccybubb]

If you dont enjoy it, its ur choice

I know i love it, its all that matters <3

If you dont like it, dont play it

And Slipmat is an EU player, pretty sure I'm Exxy, Its quite Ironic, if you dont know me, you probably dont even play Rift ;o
But hey, WHat makes me happy, can make you sad

It feels like 4.0 has been designed for players likes me, who does all kind of things, and dont solely focus on gear/raids, and skipping everything else
I enjoy killing trash, I figure details from doing it, That gives more ideas, to create new thingies =o

Less Content?

Legendary Powers alone, changes everything
Sure, when you play MMO's like in the 2010's , You'll never enjoy Rift, thats granted

Not everyone can play 20+ Keybind builds
I'm sorry that you cant, I've took my time, and learned how to handle it
If you choose to play cookie cutters, and get frustrated when they get tweaked, Its ur own fault, Cause its fairly obvious, That overperforming builds, with minimal keybinds, should'nt perform top numbers

I can see coming Tweaks about souls, easily 3-4 weeks before they happen
If you cry, when they finally tweak them, What were you really expecting?

You'll have to evolve one day, I know its extremely demanding, and you probably dont have what it takes, But hey, You have to try <3

Sincerely, Exxy

LOL. Are you really trying to attack me because I have the opinion that the buttons could use some working on? Grow up. I said the buttons are a bit out of hand. I didn't say dumb it down to 5 buttons or something so stop putting words in my mouth and being condescending. Would advise you read what people type in the future.

Also what raids? There are no raids. This is your content at 70. There is no current raid for level 70 players other than old ones. The expansion launched without one. How can you even focus on a raid that the expansion doesn't have? I mean Nightmare Tide was a bag of shit but this is equivalent to Daikatana in terms of game quality.

Warfronts- Which people again are losing their shit over because of really severe imbalance
Dailies- Literally nothing special about them.
Planar Assault aka instanced Rifts - Literally Rifts put in an instance. Point A to B with nothing interesting
3 crappy dungeons and 1 is just an upscale.

I can't think of a single MMO that launched with less content than this.

Just stop now because you are just being really childish. I know Slipmat is EU. And yeah I don't know who you are. Should I? Are you someone important in Rift? Because if you are you really aren't giving me a good representation of the community with your condescending, arrogant and toxic attitude although other people have already done that.

Legendary powers don't change squat. It's essentially beefed up abilities. Aka passives/actives to add on to a current one. They really are nothing special. Also uhm Rift was an MMO made in the 2010 era how else should I be playing it?

Remember when Rift thought it could take on WoW as well? How is that going these days.... oh wait.

You can defend Rift all you want but the fact is the expansion is a mess to the point people are on the official forums asking for refunds and quitting. If 4.1 finally brings in the raid we will be able to see how many people clear the current one on Normal. Last time it was 27 guilds if I recall for Comet of Ahnket while it was current. 27. That is dire.

Let's not forget the lovely job Brasse does condescending anyone with criticism on the forums. The only decent CM this game has had is Elrar.

[Edge-]

Legendary Powers alone, changes everything

How? Most of the "legendary" powers do little more than increase the damage of an ability, as far as I've seen. They're the most lackluster change I've ever seen added to a game/expansions list of marketed "features" ever, and I've been playing MMO's for well over a decade.

Sure, when you play MMO's like in the 2010's , You'll never enjoy Rift, thats granted

See, this is why you get a hostile reaction from folks. Rift is absolutely a "2010's" designed, second generation themepark MMO.

Not everyone can play 20+ Keybind builds

Few require anywhere remotely close to that. Most DPS builds can macro down to a half dozen hotkeys and still be viable and effective. Not chart topping, but can do just fine.

And as a frequent healer, I'm used to running with 20+ hotkeys. It's not remotely new, different, or unique to Rift.

I'm sorry that you cant, I've took my time, and learned how to handle it

Again, want to know why people are reacting with hostility towards you and the hardcore Rift community? This is why. Because you come in here with an extremely arrogant attitude, talking down to others whom you know literally nothing about.

That's not a great way to encourage others to get into Rift and join the community, yo. It literally achieves the exact opposite.

If you choose to play cookie cutters, and get frustrated when they get tweaked, Its ur own fault, Cause its fairly obvious, That overperforming builds, with minimal keybinds, should'nt perform top numbers

Hello point literally nobody in this thread is talking about, it's nice to meet you!

Seriously, nobody has discussed this topic lately in these forums, why do you bring it up at all?

I can see coming Tweaks about souls, easily 3-4 weeks before they happen
If you cry, when they finally tweak them, What were you really expecting?

I don't know...maybe some proper internal testing and "polish" like Trion promised with this "premium" expansion? So that numbers weren't pretty wildly unbalanced across the board, which is indicative of a super-rushed expansion where developers never had time to really finish anything, but just had to get a slightly above "minimum viable product" out the door rather than a finished, polished, "premium" product.

[Eleccybubb]

-snip-

Well bloody hell. Go Edge! /totally not Bandwagoning. Ok maybe a little..... alright a hell of a lot. (I'm pathetic)

[Exxy]

haha, You folks almost sounds like victims, I'm the arrogant one, because I like what Rift Offers?

Last i checked, you folks are the ones attacking Rift Pretty sure I'm only defending, Unless I missed the Memo

I wonder what I do differently, to appreciate Rift, Why cant you accept the fact, that I like/love Rift
it seems more like an issue from ur side, than from Trion's side

How come, I have so many things on my to-do list? And you seem to have nothing to do?
Raids arent everything, in a MMO
You might want to read what is an MMO

Multiple good things about Rift/Trion
I've seen hotfixes on Saturdays/Sundays, Never seen many gaming companies doing that
They are tweaking most Hot Specs, Pretty quickly, Which is great

Yeah, It sucks, when its the build you have found a guide about, and you thought you had it easy there, for a while, Too bad, Things changes in Life
Your inability to adapt, Is your very own fault

I think ahead of time, always
I have around 375 days players, And I enjoy it so much, Cause, there is always things to learn
I understand, that learning is'nt considered fun by most people

Can you play more than 1 spec, on ur toon? I mean, can you master more roles?
You master Aoe Dps build? Tanking build? Healing builds? Multiple different utility builds?
Probably not

The trick to enjoy Rift to the fullest, is to really expand urself, and always strive to get better and keep learning
Its kinda simple, yet demanding, if you dont want to do it, You are the only one to blame

Love, Exxy

[Eleccybubb]

haha, You folks almost sounds like victims, I'm the arrogant one, because I like what Rift Offers?

Last i checked, you folks are the ones attacking Rift Pretty sure I'm only defending, Unless I missed the Memo

I wonder what I do differently, to appreciate Rift, Why cant you accept the fact, that I like/love Rift
it seems more like an issue from ur side, than from Trion's side

How come, I have so many things on my to-do list? And you seem to have nothing to do?
Raids arent everything, in a MMO
You might want to read what is an MMO

Multiple good things about Rift/Trion
I've seen hotfixes on Saturdays/Sundays, Never seen many gaming companies doing that
They are tweaking most Hot Specs, Pretty quickly, Which is great

Yeah, It sucks, when its the build you have found a guide about, and you thought you had it easy there, for a while, Too bad, Things changes in Life
Your inability to adapt, Is your very own fault

I think ahead of time, always
I have around 375 days players, And I enjoy it so much, Cause, there is always things to learn
I understand, that learning is'nt considered fun by most people

Can you play more than 1 spec, on ur toon? I mean, can you master more roles?
You master Aoe Dps build? Tanking build? Healing builds? Multiple different utility builds?
Probably not

The trick to enjoy Rift to the fullest, is to really expand urself, and always strive to get better and keep learning
Its kinda simple, yet demanding, if you dont want to do it, You are the only one to blame

Love, Exxy

And you wonder why I tell people not to play when I see stuff like this being spouted. Never said raids were again nice work putting words in my mouth. I said the expansions website advertised it and we have yet to see it. Also with as little content as this Raids or something should have damn well been ready.

Yeah because Trion haven't bullshitted the playerbase over and over yeah? This expansion is in no way "premium" or "polished". Actually to be fair it is sort of premium and unique in one aspect. It has less content than any other expansion I know of.

Oh please you are not defending. You are being condescending towards anyone vocally critical. Still no idea who "Exxy" is though. PM'd a former Rift player I know to see if he can shed some light on it for me. If I haven't heard of you then you clearly aren't someone important.

[Lathais]

haha, You folks almost sounds like victims, I'm the arrogant one, because I like what Rift Offers?

Last i checked, you folks are the ones attacking Rift Pretty sure I'm only defending, Unless I missed the Memo

I wonder what I do differently, to appreciate Rift, Why cant you accept the fact, that I like/love Rift
it seems more like an issue from ur side, than from Trion's side

How come, I have so many things on my to-do list? And you seem to have nothing to do?
Raids arent everything, in a MMO
You might want to read what is an MMO

Multiple good things about Rift/Trion
I've seen hotfixes on Saturdays/Sundays, Never seen many gaming companies doing that
They are tweaking most Hot Specs, Pretty quickly, Which is great

Yeah, It sucks, when its the build you have found a guide about, and you thought you had it easy there, for a while, Too bad, Things changes in Life
Your inability to adapt, Is your very own fault

I think ahead of time, always
I have around 375 days players, And I enjoy it so much, Cause, there is always things to learn
I understand, that learning is'nt considered fun by most people

Can you play more than 1 spec, on ur toon? I mean, can you master more roles?
You master Aoe Dps build? Tanking build? Healing builds? Multiple different utility builds?
Probably not

The trick to enjoy Rift to the fullest, is to really expand urself, and always strive to get better and keep learning
Its kinda simple, yet demanding, if you dont want to do it, You are the only one to blame

Love, Exxy

No, you are arrogant because you expect everyone else to have the same exact taste as you do and that we must all "evolve" to your level. The fact of the matter is, there are tons and tons of people requesting refunds and one or two people defending the game. Where does the problem lie when the majority are asking for refunds or just leaving the game and there are only a few left defending it? Majority rules. Majority need to support the game or it will die, because a handful of diehard fans can not keep a game going by themselves unless they are millionaires paying the devs salary. Get over yourself and the concept that the rest of us must evolve.

AS for myself, can I master multiple roles? Well, when I did play I was raid leader in a guild and I personally led both Raid Team 1 and Raid Team A(yeah, we didn't want group 2 to feel second best, so we called it A). In one group I would run my Rogue, who would fill whichever role was needed that night, tank, DPS or heals. Second group I ran with my Mage, who would also fill whatever role was needed that night, Tank, DPS or Heals. For DPS or heals that included being either AoE or ST. So yeah, I can say that I did master all those roles. I had to, as I was the Raid Leader and basically the class leader for all the classes too and had to understand each persons roles and abilities in order to help them achieve victory. In addition to that, I also had to understand each player on each teams personal strengths and weaknesses in order to effectively manage the team. Player A kinda sucks at Group Heals but loves to ST DPS, so how do I best fit him in to the team and what role do I have him perform tonight, times 10 for 10-man content. To say that someone like me does not/did not understand the game is quite laughable really.

[Edge-]

haha, You folks almost sounds like victims, I'm the arrogant one, because I like what Rift Offers?

No, because you come in here with a load of assumptions and talk down to everyone here. That's why you're arrogant. Come in with a shitty attitude, get shitty attitude back.

Last i checked, you folks are the ones attacking Rift Pretty sure I'm only defending, Unless I missed the Memo

Criticizing, but if you want to consider that "attacking" sure, whatever. If you were defending Rift, you wouldn't be simultaneously trying to insult and "attack" posters here as well. But you are, so there's that.

I wonder what I do differently, to appreciate Rift, Why cant you accept the fact, that I like/love Rift

We can. If you love Rift, that's rad as shit. More power to you! But plenty of us have plenty of criticisms with it, and we are voicing them. If you disagree, that's fine and dandy, but don't expect us to sit down and shut up simply because you enjoy Rift right now. You can easily avoid all our criticisms by not visiting these forums, if they bother you so much.

How come, I have so many things on my to-do list? And you seem to have nothing to do?

Because I don't really play anymore. Wasn't a fan of NT so my playtime dwindled as the expansion went on, and have zero interest in paying for SP, even before we found out how much of a rushed disaster the expansion was when it launched.

I have plenty of to-do lists in games. Used to have a massive one for Rift, but not playing so it's thrown out. I have plenty of massive lists for the other MMO's I'm actively playing now, though : D

Raids arent everything, in a MMO
You might want to read what is an MMO

...we all know this? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, because our criticisms about content have been pretty wide-ranging for this expansion. The lack of any raids yet (which they should really be in the game by now) is irrelevant when the existing non-raid content is pretty lackluster.

Multiple good things about Rift/Trion
I've seen hotfixes on Saturdays/Sundays, Never seen many gaming companies doing that
They are tweaking most Hot Specs, Pretty quickly, Which is great

...have you played many other MMO's? Weekend hotfixes for major issues isn't uncommon at all. And while weekend hotfixes for minor issues are nice, they're not something that's terribly compelling.

Yeah, It sucks, when its the build you have found a guide about, and you thought you had it easy there, for a while, Too bad, Things changes in Life
Your inability to adapt, Is your very own fault

Why are you so focused on this issue? I get that it's a key selling point for Rift (build diversity) and all, but nobody is really complaining about that in these forums. The criticisms are that builds are wildly unbalanced to begin with, not that some of the ones that are too strong are getting nerfed.

I think ahead of time, always
I have around 375 days players, And I enjoy it so much, Cause, there is always things to learn
I understand, that learning is'nt considered fun by most people

This is the kind of bullshit insulting that I referenced earlier. Knock it off or you'll earn an infractions. Post respectfully and refrain from insults, or don't post at all.

Can you play more than 1 spec, on ur toon? I mean, can you master more roles?

When I played? Yes, I could play multiple specs on each of the 4 callings, and by NT could play each of the roles for each calling. Was I a "master"? Probably not. But I could do my job just fine and had no issues getting through any content I played (up through some casual raiding).

You master Aoe Dps build? Tanking build? Healing builds? Multiple different utility builds?
Probably not

Again, the bolded is probably why folks react to you with hostility. Because you come in with an extremely arrogant "holier than thou" attitude and talk down to others.

The trick to enjoy Rift to the fullest, is to really expand urself, and always strive to get better and keep learning
Its kinda simple, yet demanding, if you dont want to do it, You are the only one to blame

I always do that, and that's actually why I'm not playing rift right now. I'm doing that in other games that I find far more enjoyable at the moment.

Seriously, posts like yours are why people mock the hardcore Rift community. It's so overtly hostile towards anyone who isn't a supermegafan of Rift that it turns off potential new/returning players, because like hell do we want to come back to a community that's going to talk down to us all the time. It's doing Rift and Trion no favors, and only serves to continue to drag both their reputations through the mud in the general MMO community. Which is a damn shame, because Rift/Trion were once the hallmarks of quality and respect. Even with folks mocking their initial "we're not in azeroth anymore" marketing, Rift and Trion had fantastic reputations because of how amazingly well Trion supported Rift and their community, and how fantastic Rift was as a MMO. But that's changed over time, and now we're pretty much at the complete opposite end of that spectrum. And posts like yours don't help in the slightest.

[Eleccybubb]

Seriously, posts like yours are why people mock the hardcore Rift community. It's so overtly hostile towards anyone who isn't a supermegafan of Rift that it turns off potential new/returning players, because like hell do we want to come back to a community that's going to talk down to us all the time. It's doing Rift and Trion no favors, and only serves to continue to drag both their reputations through the mud in the general MMO community. Which is a damn shame, because Rift/Trion were once the hallmarks of quality and respect. Even with folks mocking their initial "we're not in azeroth anymore" marketing, Rift and Trion had fantastic reputations because of how amazingly well Trion supported Rift and their community, and how fantastic Rift was as a MMO. But that's changed over time, and now we're pretty much at the complete opposite end of that spectrum. And posts like yours don't help in the slightest.

No but after playing Rift you will want to be anywhere but Telara!

[Edge-]

No but after playing Rift you will want to be anywhere but Telara!

Hey, if I could go back to Telara circa 2011/2 I'd do it in a heartbeat!

[Eleccybubb]

Hey, if I could go back to Telara circa 2011/2 I'd do it in a heartbeat!

Oh for sure but today aw hell no. Hey maybe Rift should do Legacy servers!

In all seriousness I'd actually play the shit out of Rift back in 2011-2013 era.

[Lathais]

Hey, if I could go back to Telara circa 2011/2 I'd do it in a heartbeat!

Those were the days weren't they? If they had just kept following that formula. IMO, I think the beginning of the end was Conquest. When they started offering BiS equipment that you could only get there. Then their reasoning was, we want players to enjoy all aspects of the game. In other words, it was them saying, we know what's best for you, instead of offering you choice, we'll give you what we think you should like and if you don't like it, oh well. That attitude just continued, and got worse and worse.

[Eleccybubb]

Those were the days weren't they? If they had just kept following that formula. IMO, I think the beginning of the end was Conquest. When they started offering BiS equipment that you could only get there. Then their reasoning was, we want players to enjoy all aspects of the game. In other words, it was them saying, we know what's best for you, instead of offering you choice, we'll give you what we think you should like and if you don't like it, oh well. That attitude just continued, and got worse and worse.

Yep. Although Starfall isn't even that attitude. It's "we know we can get away with giving you shitty amounts of content for nearly a AAA price because we think we can".

I think it can be debated but River of Souls. That was one of the most awesome things ever to enter an MMO imo.

[Lathais]

If you dont enjoy it, its ur choice

re-reading this stuff, this is about the funniest thing in the world. If I punch you in the face and you don't enjoy it, it's your choice.

It's not someone's choice whether they enjoy something or not. Some people like getting punched in the face. Most people don't. It's not a choice. You either enjoy something, or you don't. No choice about it.

[ryanmahaffe]

If you dont enjoy it, its ur choice

I know i love it, its all that matters <3

If you dont like it, dont play it

And Slipmat is an EU player, pretty sure I'm Exxy, Its quite Ironic, if you dont know me, you probably dont even play Rift ;o
But hey, WHat makes me happy, can make you sad

It feels like 4.0 has been designed for players likes me, who does all kind of things, and dont solely focus on gear/raids, and skipping everything else
I enjoy killing trash, I figure details from doing it, That gives more ideas, to create new thingies =o

Less Content?

Legendary Powers alone, changes everything
Sure, when you play MMO's like in the 2010's , You'll never enjoy Rift, thats granted

Not everyone can play 20+ Keybind builds
I'm sorry that you cant, I've took my time, and learned how to handle it
If you choose to play cookie cutters, and get frustrated when they get tweaked, Its ur own fault, Cause its fairly obvious, That overperforming builds, with minimal keybinds, should'nt perform top numbers

I can see coming Tweaks about souls, easily 3-4 weeks before they happen
If you cry, when they finally tweak them, What were you really expecting?

You'll have to evolve one day, I know its extremely demanding, and you probably dont have what it takes, But hey, You have to try <3

Sincerely, Exxy

Excuse me while I spit out my water.

First, I am glad you enjoy RIFT, I have no problem with it whatsoever and hope you continue to do so.

But COME ON.

SFP has so many glaring issues that even "true fans" should be able to point out.
RIFT does not have content for anyone in the expansion, you proved that yourself with the raiding thin, theres no raid yet.


Planar assualts sounded fucking hype, but they were just run in a tiny map that looks sort of neat in circles and close light RIFTs over and over and over again.

I personally wouldn't even mind 2 new instances if they were somewhat challenging, had stayed relevant, orr, didn't come as a staple of a 40 dollar expansion.

Fortress sieges will probably still be buggy as shit.

The raid will be buggy and I doubt it will look impressive visually, expecting a Mount Sharax, not a MoM.

There is basically no meaningfull World content.

I enjoy RIFT, but had I actually bought the expansion instead of winning a copy, I would have uninstalled the game by now, as a free update, its great, as a 20 dollar update, its fine, as a 40-60 dollar full expansion pack...its below average at best.

Trion doesn't seem to have soul anymore for RIFT, except the art designers who clearly tried their hardest.

I would play RIFT if I felt the heart of the dev team even once. Instead I would rather pay to a non pay to win game that doesn't want me to pay for broken expansions.


If you disagree with my problems then more power to you, but it is an objective fact that it was released unfinished.

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Yep. Although Starfall isn't even that attitude. It's "we know we can get away with giving you shitty amounts of content for nearly a AAA price because we think we can".

I think it can be debated but River of Souls. That was one of the most awesome things ever to enter an MMO imo.

"nearly" Unless you count the deluxe edition, which is basically the way better one, which is AAA price.

[justinhalfout]

Those were the days weren't they? If they had just kept following that formula. IMO, I think the beginning of the end was Conquest. When they started offering BiS equipment that you could only get there. Then their reasoning was, we want players to enjoy all aspects of the game. In other words, it was them saying, we know what's best for you, instead of offering you choice, we'll give you what we think you should like and if you don't like it, oh well. That attitude just continued, and got worse and worse.

I can agree with that from a personal point of view, when conquest was first introduced many guilds on EU side started loosing people too due to the damn awful ability lag when trying to raid in Infernal Dawn caused by CQ, until they got it under control we had to keep delaying and cancelling raids since they were unplayable and many people just said "fuck it, i'm going back to WoW, at least it's playable".

Our guild was nothing exceptional by many standards, we were close to a Leathys kill at the time and lost so many people we had to go back to teaching folks Rusilla again.

We never fully recovered and the guild finally folded shortly after in SL at which point we all went back to WoW, looking back on it i think at the time Trion's ambition/ability ratio started to become somewhat disproportionate and it cost them dearly.