The ''efficiency'' of American healthcare system

[zenkai]

An offshoot of the usual ''why don't we have free market healthcare ?'''


http://hushp.harvard.edu/sites/defau...e%20Report.pdf

TLDR : as anyone could tell you and in fact keep telling you, ''basic'' surgical procedures developed decades ago (IE, there is no excuse of innovation costs) cost between two times and three times, even four times, less in dangerous backwater countries like Canada and France. (And no, our surgeons are not four times as incompetent as yours).

Even rock bottom US prices for hip replacement (10 000 $) are very high compared to prices in Western countries.


When what is likely the most basic medical procedure ever (or certainly one of the earliest codified one), delivery cost around 5000 $ in Canada and 10 000 $ in the USA (for, excuse me, the newborn exiting by the ''normal way'' without trouble) you know something is amiss (especially as this does not translate at better newborn health)

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Small bump, I found this more informative that the endless debates about healthcare...

You have to account for insurance and other cost to practice healthcare here. The more red tape you add the more money you need.

[Molis]

Vast majority of people who vote have health insurance through work that pays almost everything with like a $50 deductible.

This is why I can not get behind Federal Health care. I have had work subsidized health insurance since I was 15. I do not know what they go through.
15-23 I was a UFCW employee
24-now Forbes 500 Clinical Lab

I can not sympathize or empathize.
I guess I am a poor, huddled masses hating monster.

[Linkedblade]

An offshoot of the usual ''why don't we have free market healthcare ?'''


http://hushp.harvard.edu/sites/defau...e%20Report.pdf

TLDR : as anyone could tell you and in fact keep telling you, ''basic'' surgical procedures developed decades ago (IE, there is no excuse of innovation costs) cost between two times and three times, even four times, less in dangerous backwater countries like Canada and France. (And no, our surgeons are not four times as incompetent as yours).

Even rock bottom US prices for hip replacement (10 000 $) are very high compared to prices in Western countries.


When what is likely the most basic medical procedure ever (or certainly one of the earliest codified one), delivery cost around 5000 $ in Canada and 10 000 $ in the USA (for, excuse me, the newborn exiting by the ''normal way'' without trouble) you know something is amiss (especially as this does not translate at better newborn health)

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Small bump, I found this more informative that the endless debates about healthcare...

Because in the US they can jack up the cost of procedures because they know they can. Basically they are getting free money from the government or employer and they charge you the same. If you're insurer did their job they would litigate the costs down. I know for most employer sponsored care the insurer does not litigate and justs pays their part and press the buck.

[sarahtasher]

Yea, but you guys always forget to mention the dramatically faster appointment times in the US. I can go to the hospital today and have an MRI in a couple days for a non emergency situation. Anywhere else you'll be waiting for weeks. We don't have to wait 6 months to see a specialist. And finally, not every other country has universal healthcare at no cost to the patient. Australia is a great example.

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Are you not aware your insurance company already does this? The price listed isn't what the insurer pays, it's often half that.

Again. The issue is not who pay 5000 $. The issue is the cost of the procedure itself. In Canada, hip replacement is billed 5000. In the USA, it's 10 000. It's not ''you pay 5000''. It's ''the whole procedure cost 5000''

[sarahtasher]

No, again, it's not the matter of who is billed what amount, it's the cost of the procedure... 10 000 is the rock bottom price (for hip replacement) : it can go to 50 000.

[sarahtasher]

550 billon debt for healthcare is a tad ridiculous, since, to give you an idea of how wrong you are, the federal government spend very little on public healthcare (it's a provincial field)

And, FFS, there is no way a hip replacement cost 5000 in Canada and 10 000 in the USA. Our surgeons are not operating (ZING) at charity rate.

[Merie]

There's a thing where people travel to foreign lands to operations done at a fraction of the cost. India is popular, Mexico is too. Now that Cuba has opened up, there might be some medical tourism there as well.

Vast majority of people who vote have health insurance through work that pays almost everything with like a $50 deductible.

Fairly sure Trump will be closing that back down.

[artemishunter1]

An offshoot of the usual ''why don't we have free market healthcare ?'''


http://hushp.harvard.edu/sites/defau...e%20Report.pdf

TLDR : as anyone could tell you and in fact keep telling you, ''basic'' surgical procedures developed decades ago (IE, there is no excuse of innovation costs) cost between two times and three times, even four times, less in dangerous backwater countries like Canada and France. (And no, our surgeons are not four times as incompetent as yours).

Even rock bottom US prices for hip replacement (10 000 $) are very high compared to prices in Western countries.


When what is likely the most basic medical procedure ever (or certainly one of the earliest codified one), delivery cost around 5000 $ in Canada and 10 000 $ in the USA (for, excuse me, the newborn exiting by the ''normal way'' without trouble) you know something is amiss (especially as this does not translate at better newborn health)

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Small bump, I found this more informative that the endless debates about healthcare...

Have you heard about our 11thousand/yr illigal immigrants? Have you heard about Anchor Babies? Have you heard of breeding like rabbit culture? Have you heard of Lawsuit culture?

[alexw]

This is why I can not get behind Federal Health care. I have had work subsidized health insurance since I was 15. I do not know what they go through.
15-23 I was a UFCW employee
24-now Forbes 500 Clinical Lab

I can not sympathize or empathize.
I guess I am a poor, huddled masses hating monster.

You are only 24. As such you are extremely low risk and low cost so you don't get charged much. You are not going to stay that way forever though.

What happens when you hit 40, have a $10,000 deductible, and start to need more medical attention as we all do as we age?

[Tyrianth]

And there are laws in place in Canada that cap the cost of procedures. That's why you guys have a 550 Billion debt for medical care. Just because your country created some artificial number for the cost of something doesn't mean that the cost is reflective of reality. The US could pass a bill tomorrow that caps all hip replacements at $5, but that doesn't mean that hospitals will be able to perform the surgery for $5.

Lol any sources to back that up? I find it hard to believe Canada has 550 billion medical care debt when we don't even spend half of that on health care.

[alexw]

Yea, but you guys always forget to mention the dramatically faster appointment times in the US. I can go to the hospital today and have an MRI in a couple days for a non emergency situation. Anywhere else you'll be waiting for weeks. We don't have to wait 6 months to see a specialist. And finally, not every other country has universal healthcare at no cost to the patient. Australia is a great example.

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Are you not aware your insurance company already does this? The price listed isn't what the insurer pays, it's often half that.

Who cares if you can get an MRI fast? The question that has to be asked is it needed and will it help? If not then congratulations you've just wasted a load of other peoples money.

What matters is the patient outcomes, and those are no better than places that spend 50% less on healthcare. That is in no way shape or form a good deal

[Molis]

You are only 24. As such you are extremely low risk and low cost so you don't get charged much. You are not going to stay that way forever though.

What happens when you hit 40, have a $10,000 deductible, and start to need more medical attention as we all do as we age?

That should say 24 -> now (now = 43) sorry

I pay approximately $450 per month for my family of 5 to have the best health care that my company offers.

So is it just not a priority for people is it not available for people?

[Vizardlorde]

You really don't realize that the Canadian gov pay 5000 for the bypass and the US gov/assurance/citizen pay 10 000 ?

You misunderstood me the typical 60year old voter doesnt care about the costs of anything because they have medicare.

[alexw]

That should say 24 -> now (now = 43) sorry

I pay approximately $450 per month for my family of 5 to have the best health care that my company offers.

So is it just not a priority for people is it not available for people?

I don't know who you work for but most places do not offer good plans at a low cost. They are either cheap and have extremely high deductibles, or they are unaffordably expensive with low deductibles. Unpayable medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcy by far, and that would not be happening if cheap plans with high coverage were available for everyone.

The underlying problem is the current system is horrendously inefficient. For comparable outcomes the US spends 2-3x times as much as other nations do. It needs top to bottom reform, from changing from fee for procedure to fee for results to reduce the number of procedures that are unnecessary (~10% of the total currently), to going to single payer to reduce the admin overhead (currently ~25%) to something similar to that of other nations (10-15%), and to provide the necessary bargaining power that a single provider would have to force down costs.

[Rasulis]

You misunderstood me the typical 60year old voter doesnt care about the costs of anything because they have medicare.

You don’t get medicare till 65. Between 60 -65 is the last chance for the insurance company to gouge your eyes out. In about 2 years, my wife health insurance premium will go down from $880 to $119 per month.