Relevance of HTML5 in 2017?

[Deleted]

Ok, looks like i'll have to get a bit more pedantic to get my point across, then.

Like i said ; They are both tools. One is more in-depth, akin to writing with pure Syntax and allows for regulation, the other is basically a Editor that poses a few restrictions upon you.

Just like how Sceneviewer is a Tool for JavaFX, whilst you could do the FXML yourself - And you can still, ask a valid question, to say which one you prefer ; Because they achieve similar things, but in a different approach.

These apply to the first two posts

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Also, you should really look into being less ignorant if you are going to try to play "smart" ; You're coming off as dumbasses, cause you have no present reasoning except for "lol no" and your ignorance.

This one goes for the dumbass response.

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4k Clueless posts and rolling - How do you do it?

You know what they say about apples and oranges, they're both fruits.

[Deleted]

You seem to be throwing these terms around but misunderstanding that they're not the same. HTML is a markup language that is understood by browsers. The other is a CMS that takes an inbound request, retrieves information from a database (example), performs some parsing, and then returns HTML to the client that made the original request. I've never heard anyone bad mouth HTML -- I've heard people bad mouth Internet Explorer and how it's often awkward to code for, but that's a different topic.

A CMS is a tool, HTML is a markup language. They are not the same. All CMS will produce HTML, but not all HTML is a CMS. While we're on the subject, CSS is a markup language, and JavaScript is a scripting language, but neither of them are CMS. I'd argue neither of them are tools, but we're onto semantics at that point.

For example, I use an environment known as node.js to build web apps, and even normal websites. I code almost entirely in JavaScript/JS. Even my HTML isn't strictly HTML, but I don't have to worry about that as it sends the HTML that a browser can understand to the client that requested it.

HTML does not interact with SQL databases, does not interact with websockets, and does not do anything functional. It tells a browser how it should display a web page, it's layout, and usually the content. Javascript can interact with websockets as it's a scripting language. It can interact with SQL databases too, but this itself is a much more complex topic than is in the scope of this discussion.

On the subject of what would I choose;

I would choose whatever your experience level dictates. I don't know if you know how to write HTML (it's not that difficult), or if you simply want a solution that's ready to go, but go with what your experience allows.

As for me, If I was choosing anything, I'd always go for the option that ticks the most boxes for me. I haven't used anyone else CMS for many years simply because of the range of exploits out there, and that keeping up to date with patches while not breaking everything was always a headache. Plugins being exploited and taking down your whole site isn't my idea of fun.

These days, I custom build almost everything. At least a few times every week, I see random attempts to access pages that don't exist in the hopes of exploiting vulnerable software running on my server. The usual ones are for wordpress, but since I don't run wordpress, there's nothing for them to exploit. Because of the frameworks and tools I use, I'm able to access all the nitty gritty information about every request coming into my website. I can choose how I log things. I could even build my own heuristics to do something based upon a visitors previous history (e.g. if they're scanning for vulnerabilities, I could block them, or lure them into a faux-honeypot).

It's not just the security side of things, but the community surrounding it, the language it's coded in, and the sheer range of modules out there that let me interact with other services. If you can think of it, someone's probably written a module for it, and if not, it's usually not difficult to write one yourself. The ability to decide how things click together is why I take this route.

I do not assume them to be of equal standing - I know that WP is a tool to create Websites, and i have written HTML.

I have written HTML Clientside Code that integrates JS to run over WebSockets, that can forward Requests to a SQL DB through JS - If you really wish to split hairs and be that pedantic, about the use of JS or HTML when JS is very frequent in context of using HTML, then i fail to see your point other than just arguing semantics.

As for the rest of your post, it is actually valid reasoning to the subject and what i wanted to hear - You bring the point of that the customization is higher compared to that of WP, and you bring up some points of security problems with WP - Which i am thankful for that you explained. Thank you.

[ro9ue]

Did you mean:

Is it still worth it to know how to code HTML5 in 2017 in light of all the WYSIWYG editors like Wordpress, Squarespace, Wix, etc out there?

I think that makes sense as a question.

[Deleted]

They're both tools to create Websites.

No, it's more like asking if you prefer paint or a painting. Wordpress is made with HTML5 and a bunch of other tools. It's great for making blog-like websites and with the right plugins it can work for different kinds of websites too. I advised a recent client (a church group) to use Wordpress. They wanted to post news and schedule events, Wordpress is great for that. My current client wants a system to manage his clients and volunteers and administration online under very specific contrants. No way that Wordpress is going to work for that. We're making that from scratch instead.

[Deleted]

HTML5 isn't a tool. It's a language to format and display information. Wordpress is a CMS to produce content (in HTML) without writing HTML5 by yourself. Nothing more, nothing less.

Languages are merely tools.

I see that you edited your original post, so that it no longer uses the term "obsolete".

HTML 5 is a markup language used to display content in websites. It cannot be obsolete until something better comes along (in about 20 years, given the time it took to finalise HTML5 and displace HTML4). Your "editor" writes HTML 5 for you.



So your actual question should not be:

"How relevant is HTML 5 in 2017?"

It should be:

"Do you prefer to code your website yourself, or use a design tool like a prefab Wordpress blog?"

HTML 5 is incredibly relevant. It's "partners in crime" PHP and CSS are also very relevant to building websites. HTML5, CSS and PHP are the building blocks of the visible part of the internet (and PHP also the back-end of quite a lot of it). If you don't want to learn how to write it yourself, you'll be fine with a prefabricated Wordpress, Drupal, Squarespace, Joomla or whatever-the-website-builder-flavour-of-the-month-is website. But if you want to make a website whose functionality goes beyond a blog with a webshop, you're going to need to learn those programming languages.

That's a fair point, i'll admit the title was keeping Wordpress in mind, and not giving full range of the subject.

And I understand what you are saying - I was just curious to which choise would be more prudent ; the Wordpress or doing it manually.

The approach is miles different.

Then your choice is to learn how to code with HTML or use a website builder that hides the code. How would anyone on this forum know if you want to code or you don't?

Well, that comes to be the question of the Subject - Which one do YOU prefer, and based on your answer, why would you prefer that one?

I was making a judgement call based on wether writing the HTML myself was better than to use WP. And some, already pointed out the security flaws of using WP - Which makes me think that writing the HTML myself, would be more prudent.

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Did you mean:

Is it still worth it to know how to code HTML5 in 2017 in light of all the WYSIWYG editors like Wordpress, Squarespace, Wix, etc out there?

I think that makes sense as a question.

Yes, i think that this would have been an excellent title. It is what i wanted to ask. I did not have the foresight to realize this, at the time of creation of the Topic. Thank you.

No, it's more like asking if you prefer paint or a painting. Wordpress is made with HTML5 and a bunch of other tools. It's great for making blog-like websites and with the right plugins it can work for different kinds of websites too. I advised a recent client (a church group) to use Wordpress. They wanted to post news and schedule events, Wordpress is great for that. My current client wants a system to manage his clients and volunteers and administration online under very specific contrants. No way that Wordpress is going to work for that. We're making that from scratch instead.

Since you still indirectly use HTML combined with JS or Jquery compared to that of WP being a "Editor" of sorts, i would still go to say that they are both "tools", in a more generic aspect, as they both fill the same prospect of getting a result - Namedly building a website.

But i see that you bring up the points of greater integration in terms of control - Which is very useful for my intents of the Client i am going to be in contact with.

Thus, i will go for the approach of writing the HTML myself. Thank you.

[Elim Garak]

Yes, i think that this would have been an excellent title. It is what i wanted to ask. I did not have the foresight to realize this, at the time of creation of the Topic. Thank you.

In this case if you just want to build a site or a webpage and don't care that it will scream "Wordpress, Squarespace, Wix, etc" - then no you don't need to learn HTML5.

[Deleted]

In this case if you just want to build a site or a webpage and don't care that it will scream "Wordpress, Squarespace, Wix, etc" - then no you don't need to learn HTML5.

My intents are a bit greater than that.

I wish to be able to run the analytics tool published by google to monitor traffic, which is a JS script - So that i could look to improve the performance of my clients website. It is a tool that gives reports on retention times, amount of people who scrolled to the bottom of the screen, how many hits occured, etc.

I also wish to be able to account for security errors, or modify access to a DB so that i can run a Regex on the entries and sort them.

I further more wish to be able to control transactions made on the website - So that if payments occur, i wish to be able to modify the encryption of the transaction made there of, and i wish to be able to directly access the data of the Customer in such a way that i can create formatted reciets, for purposes of logging.

Now that i think about it, i think i won't be using WP.

[Deleted]

My intents are a bit greater than that.

I wish to be able to run the analytics tool published by google to monitor traffic, which is a JS script - So that i could look to improve the performance of my clients website. It is a tool that gives reports on retention times, amount of people who scrolled to the bottom of the screen, how many hits occured, etc.

I also wish to be able to account for security errors, or modify access to a DB so that i can run a Regex on the entries and sort them.

I further more wish to be able to control transactions made on the website - So that if payments occur, i wish to be able to modify the encryption of the transaction made there of, and i wish to be able to directly access the data of the Customer in such a way that i can create formatted reciets, for purposes of logging.

Now that i think about it, i think i won't be using WP.

Actually, Wordpress can do all of that. You just need the right plugins.

But start at the beginning of the software development cycle before you jump to conclusions. Start with analysing. You're already at the design step, that's step 3. You seem to be running ahead of yourself. Don't forget the first year classes, they're important :P

[Lathais]

Ok, looks like i'll have to get a bit more pedantic to get my point across, then.

Like i said ; They are both tools. One is more in-depth, akin to writing with pure Syntax and allows for regulation, the other is basically a Editor that poses a few restrictions upon you.

Just like how Sceneviewer is a Tool for JavaFX, whilst you could do the FXML yourself - And you can still, ask a valid question, to say which one you prefer ; Because they achieve similar things, but in a different approach.

These apply to the first two posts

Pot calling the kettle black.

No, they are not both tools. Wordpress is a Tool. HTML is not a tool. It is a language. Wordpress writes HTML for you, or you can do it yourself. It's like if you have a thumbscrew on the back of your case. You are asking, do you prefer to use the screw or a screwdriver. The correct question is, to you prefer to use your hand or a screwdriver. You still use the screw, no matter what. Just like when you use Wordpress, you are still using HTML5. You can not use Wordpress without using HTML5, even if you don't see it being used, it's being used. So saying nay to HTML5 is ALSO saying nay to Wordpress. Just like saying, no, I don't like to use the screw is saying you don't want to take your side cover off without using a sawz-all to cut around the screw.

For your question to make sense, you waould have to be able to use one without the other. Please tell me how you could use Wordpress if HTML did not exist? You can't.

[Daneman]

They're both tools to create Websites.

WTF am I reading? I think you should stay away from trying to create anything until you learn what a CMS is and what html5 is.

[Ealyssa]

They still are used to create the same end-goal (a website)

Sure, and a bear VS a fishing vessel have the same end-goal : catching fishes.

Your thread makes no sense, period.

WTF am I reading? I think you should stay away from trying to create anything until you learn what a CMS is and what html5 is.

Pretty obvious he is actually trolling.

[Tradewind]

Notepad+ or you're not "making" anything

[Blueobelisk]

Now that i think about it, i think i won't be using WP.

Glad we could all help guide you to that decision.

/thread

For what it's worth, I, too, thought the thread was dumb. For future reference, you could just speak clearly and say "I want to be able to do X and Y while making a website. Do you think I can manage doing it with wordpress, or should I just code everything myself with HTML?" or something...you know...straightforward.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Notepad+ or you're not "making" anything

I prefer to use an IDE Means you don't have browser caching issues if you can run the project clean every time you want to test something.

[Tradewind]

I prefer to use an IDE Means you don't have browser caching issues if you can run the project clean every time you want to test something.

I suppose lol, depends what you're doing. I'm generally doing everything in PHP files with HTML5/PHP/etc. in em, only caching issues I run into often are fuckin Ajax form bullshit, but that's an easy enough fix with one line in a .js file $.ajaxSetup ({ cache: false });, boom!

[kaelleria]

HTML is the basis for all websites. Wordpress and CMSs like it generate HTML. HTML5 is a browser specification to try to standardize how browsers handle certain html elements and APIs related to them. Modern CMSs will use HTML5 elements to more easily generate and serve up pretty (sometimes) websites.

http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/


I'm trying to think of an apt analogy to what you asked, but the closest thing I can think of (which isn't close to accurate) is "I've heard people badmouthing wood. Would you take a drill over wood?"

I suppose lol, depends what you're doing. I'm generally doing everything in PHP files with HTML5/PHP/etc. in em, only caching issues I run into often are fuckin Ajax form bullshit, but that's an easy enough fix with one line in a .js file $.ajaxSetup ({ cache: false });, boom!

Just do a POST, no extra line necessary


If your question was "Should I invest my time writing a website by scratch or use a tool like WordPress to design a website?" The answer gets a bit complicated. Look for the best tool for the job. Generally this isn't writing site entirely from scratch as there are many tools out there. WP gets a bad rap because there are tons of shodily made websites with security flaws.
Take a peak at CraftCMS if you're set on using a CMS.

[Deleted]

I'm still really digging HTML5 tbh, from the handful of instances I've used it Like a few people have said here, i think there are a lot more possibilities, particularly in audio/visual. I've read through this a few times and I'm beginning to get to grips with the amount of options this 5th version of HTML possesses. There are a few more special tags available that I think are useful (<section>, <nav>, <article>, <aside>, <header>, <footer>, <main>). So far, so good then