China used more cement from 2011-2013 than the US did all of 20th Century

[shadowmouse]

I gather that there are a number of factors.

In part, there is a kind of "build it and they will come" approach. Mianzi(face) is important to the Chinese in ways that don't translate well to our way of thinking sometimes. Have a house, even a pretty crappy one, and you're able to claim you are someone in comparison to those who don't. Have a house and (in a country with 40 million too many men) you have a shot a getting married, good luck without one -- thanks to gender imbalance bride prices have come back with a vengeance. China also uses an internal registration system for citizens (hukou) and having a house is one way to try to nail down a better location for your registration. [It is complicated, with various local twists, but think of it slightly like Americans who want to live in a good school district taken to a much more extreme level.]

In part it is a kind of WPA (Works Progress Administration) effort to keep migrant workers employed, while also shoring up economic growth figures. @Rasulis gave an accurate account of how some of that plays out, all I'd add is that in some cases the construction is seen as stop gap. There is an expectation that if an area is successful, existing buildings will be torn down and replaced with increasingly shiny, new complexes. That is seen as one way the construction industry can be kept rolling, while at the same time those who bought in early are able to cash out at an often considerable profit. It looks like a kind of win-win situation, but in reality may come closer to being akin to a Ponzi scheme in some situations.

Side note: It may seem odd to think of apartment complexes as almost temporary structures, but property ownership in China is closer to a life estate (again, it is complicated). For what it it worth, I remember being sent to Europe to pitch a popular American building material. It went over like a lead balloon, with the Germans in particular giving me an earful about how they viewed American construction as inferior for using framing and drywall. As one guy put it: "we build things to last 100 years and more".

The other problem, of course, is corruption. Everyone in the process is apt to be doing something to skim some of the money off, to put money in a bank and take advantage of interest and special offers, to trade favors or in some other baroque manner get something out of the deal. As you might imagine, this means that there are a whole bunch of people who want something built, and how it finally plays out isn't really their major interest. Once again, mianzi plays into this because it fuels the desire to have bigger, newer, longer, higher, or shinier projects.

Those of you who aren't behind the Great Firewall will find plenty of articles discussing these things, but these points may help you get started.

My girlfriend is from north China. The air quality there is terrible, I don't know how people survive there.

One day at a time, often with fits of coughing when the air gets bad, and then something akin to the cough smokers get when they quit smoking if the air clears up significantly. Masks for PM2.5, air filters, and various medicines may also be involved.

Let me recommend a book to you: The Geography of Thought. Dating across different cultures can run into odd disconnects and it helps to have an idea where some of the differences might come from.

[Collegeguy]

I would guess that China shoots themselves in the foot by artificially keeping their own currency down in order to make their labor competitive, in result their labor never gets richer barely affording livelihood, and then their ghost cities never get filled.

[Rasulis]

I would guess that China shoots themselves in the foot by artificially keeping their own currency down in order to make their labor competitive, in result their labor never gets richer barely affording livelihood, and then their ghost cities never get filled.

Why do people keep making statement like this without checking the facts? Ordos Kangbashi was the place where the Chinese ghost city narrative started. Today it is a city of 100,000 people with thriving businesses. Including a large vodka distillery company that directly competes with the Russian companies. Remember that China’s new cities are generally built on a 20 year timeline, and we are talking about cities that are less than a decade old.

Dantu in Zhenjiang was another ghost city. Still underpopulated in 2013, but filling in rapidly. If you are really that curious, look up Nanhui and Anting also. Nanhui was a ghost city for 10 years, then in 2011 its Metro Station opened, Shanghai’s Free Trade Zones were commissioned and its administrative offices were moved to Nanhui. Since then it has continued to develop. Not exactly booming, but not a ghost city either.

[Daerio]

Almost half again as much, in fact. But apparently 1/3 of it is low quality stuff that would never be allowed to be used in other developed countries. The upshot is that in 20 years or so, China's going to have to start knocking down buildings and tearing up roads to re-do them.

You guys taking the perspective that constructing things that fall apart in 20 years as a good thing are quite amazing. Yes, it "keeps people employed" in the sense that they're on a treadmill of work that will never end.

What about the fact that those people could be spending that time growing more rice, making more clothes, writing more books, painting more pictures... instead of rebuilding their homes for the 4th time in their life?

What about efficiency?

[Nadiru]

Why do people keep making statement like this without checking the facts? Ordos Kangbashi was the place where the Chinese ghost city narrative started. Today it is a city of 100,000 people with thriving businesses. Including a large vodka distillery company that directly competes with the Russian companies. Remember that China’s new cities are generally built on a 20 year timeline, and we are talking about cities that are less than a decade old.

Dantu in Zhenjiang was another ghost city. Still underpopulated in 2013, but filling in rapidly. If you are really that curious, look up Nanhui and Anting also. Nanhui was a ghost city for 10 years, then in 2011 its Metro Station opened, Shanghai’s Free Trade Zones were commissioned and its administrative offices were moved to Nanhui. Since then it has continued to develop. Not exactly booming, but not a ghost city either.

Wasn't Ordos Kangbashi originally built to hold almost five times that number? Without getting to much into it, it sounds to me like you're using the Western sense of scale to create the illusion of success. In the US, a city with a population of 100k is a small city; an Allentown or an Odessa. In China? 100,000 is essentially a rounding error in the Chinese population.

[Daedius]

Well... considering how big the population of China is...

[Deleted]

The american cement industry will suffer when trump starts his trade war against china.

[Rasulis]

Wasn't Ordos Kangbashi originally built to hold almost five times that number? Without getting to much into it, it sounds to me like you're using the Western sense of scale to create the illusion of success. In the US, a city with a population of 100k is a small city; an Allentown or an Odessa. In China? 100,000 is essentially a rounding error in the Chinese population.

You are right that these cities are still underpopulated. Keep in mind they are relatively young. Most are less than a decade. How long does it take the cities in the US to develop to where they are now?

Rancho Cucamonga in CA makes for a good comparison. It was incorporated in 1977. I have a friend that live there back in the 1980s. As late as 1987, when I came to his house, his housing development was full of empty and half built houses. Other than downtown, the rest of the City consists mostly of empty field. Now, 39 years later is a bustling suburb. You would be hard pressed to find an undeveloped property anywhere in the city.

[IIamaKing]

Is this all those empty apartment buildings and skyscrapers?

Supposedly these ghost cities are empty.

Roads are dead empty, think that should answer your question.

[kaid]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.6b6c124dfcbe



Almost half again as much, in fact. But apparently 1/3 of it is low quality stuff that would never be allowed to be used in other developed countries. The upshot is that in 20 years or so, China's going to have to start knocking down buildings and tearing up roads to re-do them.

Or even worse cases where bridges/buildings started crumbling already and there is obviously garbage mixed in with the cement to bulk it up. I mean literal bags of trash/plastic bottles and what not.

[Ave07]

Well... considering how big the population of China is...

Yeah but they have ghost cities not ghost towns.

[Daedius]

Yeah but they have ghost cities not ghost towns.

Fabricated Cities for Nuke testing...!

[Reeve]

You guys taking the perspective that constructing things that fall apart in 20 years as a good thing are quite amazing. Yes, it "keeps people employed" in the sense that they're on a treadmill of work that will never end.

What about the fact that those people could be spending that time growing more rice, making more clothes, writing more books, painting more pictures... instead of rebuilding their homes for the 4th time in their life?

What about efficiency?

You seem to be suggesting I'm saying something I'm not saying at all.

[Rudkobing]

Obviously, they are building Voltron.

[Deleted]

You guys taking the perspective that constructing things that fall apart in 20 years as a good thing are quite amazing. Yes, it "keeps people employed" in the sense that they're on a treadmill of work that will never end.

What about the fact that those people could be spending that time growing more rice, making more clothes, writing more books, painting more pictures... instead of rebuilding their homes for the 4th time in their life?

What about efficiency?

China is still ruled by the Communist party. The only thing where efficiency matters is hunting down thought criminals.

[Nadiru]

You are right that these cities are still underpopulated. Keep in mind they are relatively young. Most are less than a decade. How long does it take the cities in the US to develop to where they are now?

Rancho Cucamonga in CA makes for a good comparison. It was incorporated in 1977. I have a friend that live there back in the 1980s. As late as 1987, when I came to his house, his housing development was full of empty and half built houses. Other than downtown, the rest of the City consists mostly of empty field. Now, 39 years later is a bustling suburb. You would be hard pressed to find an undeveloped property anywhere in the city.

Rancho makes for a lousy comparison; it's bustling now because LA expanded into it. Chinese cities don't sprawl like LA does, and even if it did, Beijing would have to expand, what, 200 miles out? I don't see what the big deal is with admitting that China way overbuilt its domestic construction and is going to eat a loss on those buildings for decades to come. Well, maybe I do: As you say, saving face is a big deal in China. Admission of a foul-up is as damning as a foul-up itself; it's much more Chinese to ignore the problem until it's formed a mob and is breaking down your door.

[zenkai]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.6b6c124dfcbe



Almost half again as much, in fact. But apparently 1/3 of it is low quality stuff that would never be allowed to be used in other developed countries. The upshot is that in 20 years or so, China's going to have to start knocking down buildings and tearing up roads to re-do them.

Don't forget steel, China was using so much steel that prices went crazy for a while.

[Mordran]

Do they mean concrete? Buildings are made using concrete, concrete is made using a cement...

[Stormspark]

Maybe you guys should bottle your air and sell it to China.

Oops never mind Canada beat you to it.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/15/asia/c...ing-clean-air/

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China doesn't have bubbles it has world debt reinforced unobtainium domination spheres.

If they burst ...they'll take out the whole planet.

So you mean this is real now?

[TrumpIsPresident]

So you mean this is real now?

Dude, that's the exact thing I thought of when I read about "bottled air" haha.

The second thing was this...