Enhancement: Live vs PTR (Sims)

[nazrakin]

Thing is it's not really any more active then any of the other options. It's a button pressed on a fixed schedule to maintain a buff. If you spec either of the other talents on that tier you aren't just going to be twiddling your thumbs without that button to press. You will be using a different active ability depending on your opponent(s) and MS levels. Which seems to me to be just as skill involved as adding a second "DoT" to our rotation.

I agree that its a pretty simple thing to maintain but it is still a "dot" that requires a bit more maintenance and pressure to keep up 100% of the time vs either of the other options. HS should not be nearly as far ahead as it is on live but I do still think it deserves to be ahead by a slight bit in a purely single target situation... otherwise, whats the point of it? I think LS being slightly ahead in a situation where you are taking many hits, AS pulling ahead in AE, and HS being ahead in single target is a fair balance between the 3.

[Creekz]

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19M.html

The latest sim picks Overcharge over Tempest.

[Deleted]

oh boy, i dont want lightning bolt in our rotation T_T

[Rouncer]

oh boy, i dont want lightning bolt in our rotation T_T

If overchange ends up best talent in that tier for single target patchwerk that's fine since there is no way for it to be best for AE/Cleave encounters.

[MisterBigglez]

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19M.html

The latest sim picks Overcharge over Tempest.

RIP Ring and Wrist legendary

[Deleted]

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19M.html

The latest sim picks Overcharge over Tempest.

That's not interesting because with 4p, tempest clearly beats OC. That's just theory.

Currently, i'd stick with BF/AS/Tempest/CS/LS, even with 4p. FOA for AOE.

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RIP Ring and Wrist legendary

Wrists are as good as 910 crit/mastery bracers. They're straightout bad. The ring at least has nice stats and 3% is better than nothing.

[Imnick]

Why would you take CS with the 4 piece bonus?
You won't be using CL on a single target any more, so you're taking a talent that does no damage over one that does damage.

[Deleted]

Why would you take CS with the 4 piece bonus?
You won't be using CL on a single target any more, so you're taking a talent that does no damage over one that does damage.

I don't know. 2p set bonuses heavily buffs stormstrike and stormbringer, CS costs less MS so more SB procs. I'd like to see some other results. I don't trust completely those results, but FOA isn't strong on single target. So CS with CL dump might take over.

I'd need some time to test it.

[Darleth]

I don't know. 2p set bonuses heavily buffs stormstrike and stormbringer, CS costs less MS so more SB procs. I'd like to see some other results. I don't trust completely those results, but FOA isn't strong on single target. So CS with CL dump might take over.

I'd need some time to test it.

CL is worse with 4 piece. Until you get it, I actually think it'll still be fine to play with CS. After gaining 4 piece though, there is no reason to press it besides activating our cleave.
At least that is how I see it currently.

[Deleted]

CL is worse with 4 piece. Until you get it, I actually think it'll still be fine to play with CS. After gaining 4 piece though, there is no reason to press it besides activating our cleave.
At least that is how I see it currently.

Well you're mostly right. Simcraft sims the bonus like it is worded. On PTr, it doesnt work like that because of a bug. I assume the wording is correct and they fix that bug, so that simcraft is right.

So i looked a little closer at APL and improved the string and gained some dps.

FOA is a dps loss on single target currently. At least with 4p.



So IMO, it looks like BF is still very strong, if not best talent combination (at least with SA, 4pT19 and 3 Windstrike relics). FOA looks like an AOE talent. And Tempest is still best choice with 4p.

Please don't take those numbers as proof. I just wanted to show that BF still looks strong. There will be better sims in 1 or 2 weeks.

[Metaslave]

How do you batch sim different talent setups?

[Lowland]

So IMO, it looks like BF is still very strong, if not best talent combination (at least with SA, 4pT19 and 3 Windstrike relics). FOA looks like an AOE talent. And Tempest is still best choice with 4p.

Please don't take those numbers as proof. I just wanted to show that BF still looks strong. There will be better sims in 1 or 2 weeks.

Based on your sims, I'd want to run Sundering for single target; it looks optimal with any significant boss movement and I'd just as soon risk the .1% dps difference in a patchwerk scenario to drop CL from the rotation. Kind of sad that "no talent" is so close though...

[Imnick]

These sims differ quite a lot for the ones I've been seeing in the enhancement Discord channel, although I don't really know what the difference between the tweaks and APLs you are running and the ones they are running.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Well, so here we are, close to patch going live, and nothing was baked into the spec nor they reworked dumb talents(lightning shield and landslide). The stupid leg bracers is as useless as ever(actually, worse than before since HS won't be used now).

In the end it was just numbers, crushed my hopes =/

[Deleted]

These sims differ quite a lot for the ones I've been seeing in the enhancement Discord channel, although I don't really know what the difference between the tweaks and APLs you are running and the ones they are running.

I am running my own shaman and those sims in Discord dont include 4p. Because i dont care about some random profile that lacks gear.

I also changed the APL. E.g. i removed the sequence to cast CL with CS or BF because CL is always a dps loss with 4p unless alpha wolves shpuld be kept up. And i used as base value the already updated APL.

All i want is some discussion and i hope more people sim this. When i said "Hailstorm sucks", i was attacked first and now, it has become common knowledge. I am not stupid.

[Muh]

I am running my own shaman and those sims in Discord dont include 4p

They do

i was attacked first and now, it has become common knowledge

Ist still better on live just the ptr Version is worse because of the 40% nerf.

[Rusah]

I am running my own shaman and those sims in Discord dont include 4p. Because i dont care about some random profile that lacks gear.

I also changed the APL. E.g. i removed the sequence to cast CL with CS or BF because CL is always a dps loss with 4p unless alpha wolves shpuld be kept up. And i used as base value the already updated APL.

The point of using the simc profile's gearsets is it creates a common variable with which to compare APL's and talents by. We'll never truly know if your tweaks are better or not if the gearsets are totally different. Right now we are working on what we should be doing at 7.1.5 release, the gearset is ilvl 889 and optimized by simcraft rules which is totally reasonable and not "lacking gear" at all.

I'd be interested in seeing your results if you'd swap your gearset to the same one used in the sample mythic profile. We'd have some common ground to compare with.

[Deleted]

They do



Ist still better on live just the ptr Version is worse because of the 40% nerf.

I always referred to 7.1.5 PTR.

And the sims in Discord are simming less geared profiles and i assume there's still a mistake in their APL. With 4p, even with BF, you dump with LL. He said today that didnt do so because CL with CS is simply better. But it isn't.

4p is enough to make CL even with CS a dps loss on single target. If you change that in the APL, the profile gains another 10k dps and pulls clearly ahead.

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The point of using the simc profile's gearsets is it creates a common variable with which to compare APL's and talents by. We'll never truly know if your tweaks are better or not if the gearsets are totally different. Right now we are working on what we should be doing at 7.1.5 release, the gearset is ilvl 889 and optimized by simcraft rules which is totally reasonable and not "lacking gear" at all.

I'd be interested in seeing your results if you'd swap your gearset to the same one used in the sample mythic profile. We'd have some common ground to compare with.

I have ilvl 888 and my char sims far higher then the sims i saw. I'd be glad if someone shared that profile and APL so i could test if improvements are possible.

But so far, i simmed 3 enhancer (886 to 889) and all of them had pretty much the same result.

[Imnick]

I don't know what led you to believe that the APLs being employed in Discord have been dumping MS with CL/CS but that's definitely not true.
We've been talking about dropping CL from the rotation for weeks :P

[Nitwit]

I don't know what led you to believe that the APLs being employed in Discord have been dumping MS with CL/CS but that's definitely not true.
We've been talking about dropping CL from the rotation for weeks :P

The default boulderfist priority does, but that's because there aren't any set bonus conditionals yet (profile gained 4k dps by doing it with no set bonuses).