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  1. #21
    The problem is partisan politics. It's like rust for your brain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taftvalue View Post
    Nothing stops you from voting third party.
    Except the fact that your vote will literally count for zero because of the Electoral College's WTA system.

    And frankly, even in the states that use the CD method it'd still almost certainly count for zero.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  2. #22
    Scarab Lord Teebone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    We are "divided" by design. Our system gives us no room for nuance. We have to pick red or blue. This is fucking stupid shit.
    The first step of recovery is recognizing that there is a problem.

  3. #23
    The Lightbringer Kouki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Every media outlet cries that America is so divided. That it's left and right. Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton.

    But is that really true? What if America had 30 options for President on the ballot of all varying degrees on the political spectrum. Wouldn't we just see a proportionally segregated vote as well?

    So it's not that everyone is so divided, it's that we are all forced to define ourselves in the embodiment of 2 political parties.


    As a person who sees a ton of nuance in the positions of most Americans including myself, my only choices are this or that.

    What that does is force me into 1 camp vs the other. I might be extremely conflicted about who I support, and just by slight edge I decided for one or the other. The moment I do that, all of the other intricacies of my position become irrelevant. I'm either Trump or Clinton. R or D.

    This shouldn't be acceptable. We should be able to have a complex position. We should be able to have a wide variety of choices for President.

    What if the 2016 national election had Sanders, Trump, Clinton, Rubio, etc etc all available for us to choose?



    We are "divided" by design. Our system gives us no room for nuance. We have to pick red or blue. This is fucking stupid shit.
    They came together voted and prevented a war mongering pedophile appologist from becoming president, so divided i dont see it.

  4. #24
    Scarab Lord Teebone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Except the fact that your vote will literally count for zero because of the Electoral College's WTA system.
    You couldn't possibly be more wrong. IF.. and sadly this is a big 'if' a third party gets 5% of the vote, they will be declared a 'minor political party' and receive not only funding but a shot at ACTUAL TELEVISED DEBATES. If you were around for the '92 election... clearly you were not... you would have seen the one and only 3-way presidential debate. It was FUCKING GLORIOUS. Perot owned the hell out of Clinton and Bush (more Bush than Slick Willy, but Bush was a moron).

    Waste of vote? No. But you believing this means you are a waste of a ballot. Sorry, but these are things you should understand before voting. It's a responsibility. One I've taken seriously since my first in '92 =)

  5. #25
    The Lightbringer Molis's Avatar
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    I do not know if it a lie.

    But I am Pro Choice and Pro Small government.
    Do not like taxes
    Do not like giving handouts
    Do not care if gays marry

    Us in the middle have no where to go.

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer Kouki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Did you sleep for the last six weeks?
    Trump actually won the election.
    So whats that got to do with my statement, majority of america men women all genders and races voted for trump so where was the divide?

  7. #27
    The huge divide between really far right and kind of maybe close to right-middle on a good day?

    The biggest divide would be between California and southern states like Mississippi or Alabama.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kouki View Post
    So whats that got to do with my statement, majority of america men women all genders and races voted for trump so where was the divide?
    Trump didn't win a majority.

  8. #28
    The Lightbringer Kouki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    The huge divide between really far right and kind of maybe close to right-middle on a good day?

    The biggest divide would be between California and southern states like Mississippi or Alabama.

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    Trump didn't win a majority.
    Explain how he is the president elect then if he didnt win?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Wrong again!
    The "war mongering pedophile appologist" actually won due to the EC.
    The majority (or plurality, so nobody will whine) went for Clinton.
    You must be made of neutrons , Hillary is the pedophile apologist and war mongering candidate.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Teebone View Post
    You couldn't possibly be more wrong. IF.. and sadly this is a big 'if' a third party gets 5% of the vote, they will be declared a 'minor political party' and receive not only funding but a shot at ACTUAL TELEVISED DEBATES. If you were around for the '92 election... clearly you were not... you would have seen the one and only 3-way presidential debate. It was FUCKING GLORIOUS. Perot owned the hell out of Clinton and Bush (more Bush than Slick Willy, but Bush was a moron).

    Waste of vote? No. But you believing this means you are a waste of a ballot. Sorry, but these are things you should understand before voting. It's a responsibility. One I've taken seriously since my first in '92 =)
    Whoop de fricking doo. That's generally how it works in other countries too.

    But back to my actual statement - it's correct. Voting for a third party candidate is literally throwing your vote away. If you don't win the state your votes don't count, thanks WTA rule.

    Let me give you a personal story. I despise the major parties here in Australia, so I vote third party. But we have preferential voting here, so not only is my vote not invalidated by an archaic mechanism like the EC, I can safely vote for a third party without worrying about things like vote splitting. Furthermore, if my third party receives enough votes it can make preference deals with major parties to ensure some of their policies get listened to even if they don't win a single seat.

    If I lived in the US, I wouldn't even bother to vote because it'd be a complete waste of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    What was your old username again?
    I've only ever had one account on these forums.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Kouki View Post
    Explain how he is the president elect then if he didnt win?
    Electoral college doesn't require winning the majority of votes.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Kouki View Post
    So whats that got to do with my statement, majority of america men women all genders and races voted for trump so where was the divide?
    Hilariously wrong on all counts.

    About 63 million Americans voted Trump. 66 million Americans voted Hillary. The US has a population of 319 million, out of which about 230 million are eligible to vote.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  12. #32
    The Lightbringer Kouki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Electoral college doesn't require winning the majority of votes.
    Then all is good and hillary and podesta dont get to run the country.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Whoop de fricking doo. That's generally how it works in other countries too.

    But back to my actual statement - it's correct. Voting for a third party candidate is literally throwing your vote away. If you don't win the state your votes don't count, thanks WTA rule.

    Let me give you a personal story. I despise the major parties here in Australia, so I vote third party. But we have preferential voting here, so not only is my vote not invalidated by an archaic mechanism like the EC, I can safely vote for a third party without worrying about things like vote splitting. Furthermore, if my third party receives enough votes it can make preference deals with major parties to ensure some of their policies get listened to even if they don't win a single seat.

    If I lived in the US, I wouldn't even bother to vote because it'd be a complete waste of time.
    .
    Feels rather good to live in an actual democracy, right? Greetings from germany =)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Hilariously wrong on all counts.

    About 63 million Americans voted Trump. 66 million Americans voted Hillary. The US has a population of 319 million, out of which about 230 million are eligible to vote.
    This is, I think, the saddest part of it. Almost half of eligible voters didn't show up.

  14. #34
    Given the hoops needed to be jumped through to ratify our Constitution, the Civil War, and the Civil Rights Era, I would argue that the lie is the idea that the U.S. was ever united.
    Banned from Twitter by Elon, so now I'm your problem.
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    I am the total opposite of a cuck.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    Feels rather good to live in an actual democracy, right? Greetings from germany =)

    This is, I think, the saddest part of it. Almost half of eligible voters didn't show up.
    Well, don't get me wrong, politics here pisses me off no end. And the party I vote for is so minor I doubt it has much influence.

    But that's the people's fault, not the system :P

    Also we don't have a turnout problem since voting's compulsory... kek.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  16. #36
    The Lightbringer Kouki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Hilariously wrong on all counts.

    About 63 million Americans voted Trump. 66 million Americans voted Hillary. The US has a population of 319 million, out of which about 230 million are eligible to vote.
    The president is the first one to 270 electoral votes, no such thing as popular vote or majority.

  17. #37
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    In free societies there will always be many people who passionately disagree with each other. It's much better than a conformist herd society where people do not go against popular opinions.

  18. #38
    The Lightbringer Kouki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Well, don't get me wrong, politics here pisses me off no end. And the party I vote for is so minor I doubt it has much influence.

    But that's the people's fault, not the system :P

    Also we don't have a turnout problem since voting's compulsory... kek.
    if i was forced at gunpoint to vote id be living in what exactly?

  19. #39
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    The problem is partisan politics. It's like rust for your brain.



    Except the fact that your vote will literally count for zero because of the Electoral College's WTA system.

    And frankly, even in the states that use the CD method it'd still almost certainly count for zero.
    Well part of the problem is the defeatist attitude. Unless then 3rd parties start bidding for local and state offices they will lose the momentum that they gained in 2016. As long as they keep merely short term (coming out to win the White House without playing the long game) they will continue to lose. They need focus on get to 15%, the need to educate people about the system.

    What did Jill Stein gain for her political ideology by politically heckling the Democrats? Why distance yourself from your closest allies? Maybe they aren't actually trying to win because they aren't very good at the game. Bernie was a much as an outsider as Stein and Johnson and look what he was able to do. The current 3rd parties are too weak to even rattle a cycle where both major parties were dealing with major issues...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Given the hoops needed to be jumped through to ratify our Constitution, the Civil War, and the Civil Rights Era, I would argue that the lie is the idea that the U.S. was ever united.
    "'Member when America was great?"

    I completely understand the South Park meme now. The weren't any good ole days, the US has constantly been moving towards better and better days.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Taftvalue View Post
    Nothing stops you from voting third party.

    Believe it or not at some point there was no Republican party either, they became a thing because enough people voted for them.
    Not really true. When Washington was elected he ran partyless and opposed the idea of them saying it would split the nation. Eventually Jefferson and others get us into a mutliple party system and when Jefferson was elected we have our first republican. While the GoP wasn't officially established until the 1850s Jefferson's party eventually is rebranded as the Whig party and that spins back to the Republican party. It might have had a few different names over a few years, but that was more about people trying to make their own mark and less about changing from the party line. It is more like tea party or alt right being considered a different party when they are all still marching under the GoP flag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    A divided America is hyperbole. We've always had Republicans and Democrats, always will have them. It's not a division, it's just two points of view.
    The biggest issue is when people from either side are so blindly dug into their own party they will not listen to or try to understand people outside of it. Far too many people have this idea that their version of the US is the real and only version. If you aren't with them you are against them. It should not be that black and white, but people are idiots and have to label everything possible to ease their simple minds.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

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