Legion Theorycrafting [7.3, All specs]

[Effinhunter]

I'll try to post some legendary breakdowns today, but keep in mind that the hunter module, especially the BM module, has had some problems and very little focus. Titanstrike does not have the proper stat allocation in the hunter module. Lots of little things are off, and we could use a champion or two helping out the Simcraft team, if you have time.

It's hard to even get a proper DPE breakdown for building new action lists. For instance, here is the DPE for what is supposed to be http://www.wowhead.com/item=141353/m...g-cap-launcher



The legendary is not actually buffing Bursting Shot in Simcraft in current builds. Not sure when this was reverted because I could have sworn I had included a breakdown of this before the expansion even hit. This should be a DPE of 320-360k (800% increase), but it is instead 40k.

If you have noticed something strange like this, please help us compile a list that we can present to the Simcraft developers. I can modify first post with known problems and poke the simc IRC until changes are in. Reia, Collision or someone else has historically helped us out with fixes if we can give them a checklist and what the correct values/interactions are.

[Aimbot1]

Am I going crazy or does the "BM w/tier Single Target Talents" section show as MM.

[dieudal]

There's a spreadsheet of bonus percentage being passed around higher end guilds, but it has some incorrect entries in it (e.g. SV is obviously using bad gear and is undervalued), so I'm not sure it's worth posting here. Let's just say that rogues and MM hunters have a lot to look forward to though.

Could you please link me that or message it to me?

So what does the CD of TS end up roughly being on average with Tier, is the tier sims with nighthold trinkets?

[Effinhunter]

Am I going crazy or does the "BM w/tier Single Target Talents" section show as MM.

Image should be fixed now. I also put a note that the without tier profile is using pre-heroic NH gear (885/915 for gear/artifact) and the tier profile is using heroic-level gear (895/925).

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Could you please link me that or message it to me?

So what does the CD of TS end up roughly being on average with Tier, is the tier sims with nighthold trinkets?

First, with tier:

MM w/tier TS interval/uptime


Add legendary boots:

MM w/tier and leg boots TS interval uptime


Add 3 QS traits:


Add Convergence of Fates (NH trinket):


Simcraft Source

Before the nerf to the boots, I believe we had <=45s effective TS CD.

[DeadSwordz]

MM w/tier TS interval/uptime

the cooldown of trueshot with nothing is 180 seconds.

if you are trying to compare the cd of trueshot you should edit the apl so it doesn't save it for execute.

edit: also looking at the source you forgot to actually include the tier set

[PewPewArrowz]

Got a silly question, will trick shot become almost always default for last tier?

[Deleted]

That's not accurate.
Ingame I can easily cast 3 TS on a 5 min fight without BL with only the tier set.
That s an uptime of 15%. I m sure I could fit a 4th TS with BL. (I don't have drums to test!). That would be an uptime of 20%

[Ravenzedd]

the cooldown of trueshot with nothing is 180 seconds.

No, it's 150 seconds. Unless you are going into nighthold without 3/3 quickshot traits in you artifact, which is basically nobody.

All theorycrafting will account for having artifact traits.

[DeadSwordz]

No, it's 150 seconds. Unless you are going into nighthold without 3/3 quickshot traits in you artifact, which is basically nobody.

All theorycrafting will account for having artifact traits.

yeah I just used 180 to show how even with nothing it couldn't be the 210 seconds he had linked

[Renley]

Item - Hunter T19 Survival 2P Bonus: Flanking Strike now has (was 2)3 times the normal chance to trigger Hunting Companion.
Item - Hunter T19 Beast Mastery 4P Bonus: When you use Bestial Wrath, all of your currently summoned Dire Beasts gain (was 100%)50% increased damage for (was 8)15 sec.
Item - Hunter T19 Marksmanship 4P Bonus: Trueshot also reduces the cost of all your Focus spenders by (was 50%) 15%.

Sad day for MM.

[Effinhunter]

edit: also looking at the source you forgot to actually include the tier set

Yep. I'll fix it. Was first using a tier talent listing and then figured I would make 1 file and forgot to copy over tier. Also, as someone else pointed out, need to look at the Simcraft APL and change it to use TS on CD, essentially, to really show this. Will post a better version soon. My bad.

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Ok, after the changes, here's the new Simcraft Source for testing out tier, boots, QS trait and Convergence. Modifications were made to the APL to use TS on CD, and adding the tier to the base profile as it should have been.

Simcraft Source

Tier


Tier w/boots


Tier w/boots +3 QS traits


Tier w/boots + 3 QS traits + Convergence


With everything, you appear to be able to get it down to 40s, even after the nerfs to the boots.

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P.S. going to update the tier sims with the TS usage changes to the APL. Will also update the relic sims and such.

[Hawkshot]

Effinhunter thanks for all the work you do, I much appreciate it. What are your thoughts on the tier set changes for both BM and MM?

[Effinhunter]

Effinhunter thanks for all the work you do, I much appreciate it. What are your thoughts on the tier set changes for both BM and MM?

I'm rerunning all of those. With the changes to the MM APL though, there's not much change in its performance in the sims right now (more TS usage == more dps). Simcraft was actually previously significantly undervaluing the MM tier (if you can believe that) because TS was being selectively used rather than on CD. SV went up significantly. BM not so much. In fact, huge nerf for the default talents I had been using. I'll try to change it to stomp and see if that has a positive effect. As it is right now, in the sim, significant nerf for the previous top talent combination though. Will have to rerun those talent sims and that will take some time.

Edit: going to startup the talent combination sims with the changes to the tier sets and let them run overnight. Will try to post as soon as I get time tomorrow.

[eathdemon]

according to those sims volley is 1k to 3k less than moc in st. given almost no fight is pure st, does that make volley the main choice for mm hunters?

[Jayeazy]

The condition on trueshot was a hack to attempt to calculate the rough cooldown of trueshot with all the possible reductions it can have now based on when the second truehot of the fight was made available (I multiply it by 1.1 just for a safe buffer since lust helps shorten the first cooldown more than others) and use that estimate each time trueshot is back up to decide determine if it is safe to use trueshot again and still be able to have another trueshot during execute. It's not always perfect but it started showing better result immediately with the boots when first put in. Using "fixed_time=1" in sims also helps since it makes the sim estimations of time before execute phase or boss death more accurate and helps prevent less optimal timings from happening.

I just tried sims with and without that trueshot condition and I get the same amount of trueshots for each so I don't know what that's about.

Also that new nightly won't show the 4 set nerf right now because the reduction was hardcoded in.

[Khrux]

Pls be aware, that the speccs listed in those simulations, are only the top talent combinations. There are 3^5=243 dps talent combinations per specc.

There are 243 talent combinations for each spec, and I'm only showing the top 20 or so combinations.

Apologies for the poor wording on my part, I meant to illustrate the best vs worst of the actual optimal talents setups not of every possible talent permutation

Anyway as I don't think its been mentioned in this thread particularly, keep in mind Effin that the BM set was changed to affect all Dire beasts cast both before and after BW is activated. I'd imagine this isn't going to be included in the sims by default, also the 2pc and 4pc swapped places.

[Deleted]

After the MM 4 set piece nerf maybe it will be better to only go for 2 set (Legs + Head) and fill the other slots with better itemized items? The other set items are missing mastery (except for cloak).

[Deleted]

After the MM 4 set piece nerf maybe it will be better to only go for 2 set (Legs + Head) and fill the other slots with better itemized items? The other set items are missing mastery (except for cloak).

Don't worry, they will have to do a LOT more to make the 4pc less valuable than some extra mastery!!!

[Effinhunter]

Also that new nightly won't show the 4 set nerf right now because the reduction was hardcoded in.

Collision told me it should be in the nightly, but I remember he did say he assumed it was coded to look at spell dump. If it's hardcoded at 50% then the differences I was seeing must have been other spell dump changes. Is the module referencing the new 15%? Is it ok to use latest nightly?

[Deleted]

Collision told me it should be in the nightly, but I remember he did say he assumed it was coded to look at spell dump. If it's hardcoded at 50% then the differences I was seeing must have been other spell dump changes. Is the module referencing the new 15%? Is it ok to use latest nightly?

The only change for MM is the set bonus nerf so if you see impacts that should come from that I assume!