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  1. #1
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Does Ret feel like the laziest designed spec to you?

    Every time I play it I feel like it is...I mean pretty much every single talent is just a buff or replacement to a base ability...very few actually add anything new. The rotation is kinda boring and almost no talent to really spice it up (Although I admit I haven't really tried the new BoW) and last but not least which irks me is they couldn't even add a new animation for JV? I mean come on...other 2h classes have more than 2 melee abilities...why couldn't they just steal a animation from one of them?

    Not saying the spec is horrible or anything...but to me it feels so lazy.

  2. #2
    I am Murloc! DaGhostDS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excellion View Post
    but to me it feels so lazy.
    Paladin in a Nutshell, it's always been half-done

    I really dont like the newest version of Ret, Cataclysm seem fine to me, not sure why they would destroy it like they did i really cant say what happened in between Fireland and Legion since i miss those years.

  3. #3
    I find hunter way more laziest than ret.
    At first i was not really into ret paladin but as soon as i got him more geared i was really enjoying the spec.

  4. #4
    Rotation's super boring, I'll day that.

    And I guess Templar's Verdict didn't get a new animation cause that was one of the more updated ones.

    Quit playing for the foreseeable future.

  5. #5
    Ret has always been this way. Go look at Wrath's version of Ret for an example. No Holy Power, no Templar's Verdict. All your abilities just had short cds so you just hit whatever wasn't on cooldown.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by DaGhostDS View Post
    Paladin in a Nutshell, it's always been half-done

    I really dont like the newest version of Ret, Cataclysm seem fine to me, not sure why they would destroy it like they did i really cant say what happened in between Fireland and Legion since i miss those years.
    Yeah I agree with the Cataclysm iteration being the best. Wrath was Whack-a-mole, then they introduced Holy Power and it felt a lot better. I can't exactly put my finger on what was lost over the last few years, but even though we still have Holy Power, it just seems superficial and we're back to Whack-a-mole. Might just be that the CDs of the abilities end up coming off cooldown just as you need to use them anyways?

    Not sure.

  7. #7
    Not sure about 'most' lazy. It's not good. Legion has been hit and miss. Shadow Priest in Legion is probably the best designed spec they have ever done, in terms of how it feels to play, in term of how it looks (shadowy tentacles and swirls everywhere), how it sounds. Subtledy rogue is similarly interesting. Elemental has a shit ton of potential with icefury build and is going in a good direction with 7.1.5. Etc.

    Compared to that Ret is bad in every way... basically a Holy Rogue in terms of rotation, 'w8 for cooldowns to finish and press buttons according to static priority list', super low skill ceiling, that is only enhanced by 'fail safers' like divine intervention, panic button lay on hands, etc... Holy Warrior visual and sound effects replaced by lots of metal sounds and physical attacks, with some holy light mixed in.

    But on the other hand, im there's a lot worse. There's atrocious stuff like outlaw, mediocre stuff like Enhancement (crazy good visual and audio, but boring/low skill ceiling rotation, that at least manages to feel good when you proc a lot, because of the high damage and impact of Storm Strike), and a lot of specs in between.

    I don't actually have any concrete suggestions. I can't imagine how hard proper rotation and ability design is, which is why only a fraction of the classes and specs are actually fun to play. In the abstract I wish for something with a high skill cap, that is dynamic and doesn't allow us to go brain afk for our rotation, but in return rewards skilled players with higher placements in the meters. I wish for the holy light show visual and sound effects back.
    Last edited by stolker; 2017-01-06 at 08:10 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by DaGhostDS View Post
    Paladin in a Nutshell, it's always been half-done

    I really dont like the newest version of Ret, Cataclysm seem fine to me, not sure why they would destroy it like they did i really cant say what happened in between Fireland and Legion since i miss those years.
    you liked the inquisition mechanic?!

  9. #9
    In my opinion the downwards spiral began with Cataclysm. Now I am not the one who's going to say everything was better in Vanilla, as others have pointed out Ret always felt a bit half-baked and Blizz seems to uphold this tradition in Legion as well. However, to me Cata marks a point in the history of the retribution spec where it lost a great chunk of its uniqueness and identity even if mechanically it was upgraded and became more involving for the player. Holy Power on Ret felt like being a Holy Rogue and having to keep up the Inquisition buff in addition was very reminiscent of that rogue playstyle as well. I do think it was a blessing for the Holy spec though, that's when I shifted more towards healing and enjoying it until this very day.

    At this point, I have no idea what to do to rectify the situation. I think the spec is okay-ish, but certainly nothing to write home about. I would not claim it to be the laziest spec either, plenty others that are lazy in their own right. However, I think retribution didn't get the kind of "identity-enhancing" rework as many other specs got and that's a big miss.

    For example, as it was pointed out above, shamans are rather lazy too but damn it's flashy, the animations and sounds are superb, it all feels very shamany. I would say the same is true for warriors, at least Fury and Prot has a heavy impact behind the animations (haven't tried Arms much). Outlaw rogues, animation-wise, also deliver a unique vibe (at least in my book). The core mechanics of Fire mages barely changed, you are just proccing more hence why it feels more energetic and fast paced but they do managed to give Fire a feeling you would expect: flashy, explosive, spreading, burning, etc. Or take Demonology locks, even though in my opinion it's far from perfect (became too spammy for my liking) but it was a very large and much needed step in the right direction by focusing more on demons. Shadow Priests are an absolute marvel since the revamp as well. (Please note I am not talking about effectiveness or numbers here, merely the atmosphere of the specs, which is a very important part of the whole gaming experience).

    Retribution on the other hand feels way too soft and just lacks character (apart from Consecration, I love what they did to that spell). There's barely any weight behind my attacks, even though there should be when you are delivering justice with a massive two-handed sword. Everything just feels too instant and lackluster and I don't feel like a holy warrior at all, I am unable to detect a single shred of the whole "I am judgement incarnate" image.

    It's more like a malfunctioning signal post that hopes to scare away bad things by flashing violently.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Matrlx View Post
    you liked the inquisition mechanic?!
    I mean, I liked it. I can see why people wouldn't.

    Quit playing for the foreseeable future.

  11. #11
    I definitely enjoy how reliable the ret rotation is.

  12. #12
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
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    I definitely miss the MoP iteration of ret after they removed inquisition in 5.4. Most fun I've ever had as a paladin.

    I despise the new judgement mechanic.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeula View Post
    I definitely miss the MoP iteration of ret after they removed inquisition in 5.4. Most fun I've ever had as a paladin.

    I despise the new judgement mechanic.
    +1
    imo the best Ret was that one, i despise the colossus gameplay!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Yeah I agree with the Cataclysm iteration being the best..
    Come on, maintaining inquisition was interesting?

  15. #15
    I feel that the issue here is the talents available to us. I have only started maining a retribution in WOD, however, I play it competitively (by this I mean mythic) in PVE meaning I have enough experience to make some form of input. I will not refer to anything before Warlords in my statements because I am not educated on how retribution used to play and it would be simply ignorant of me to even mentioned the Cataclysm build that I had not played on.

    Firstly the removal of Lights Hammer and rework of Execution Sentence was a down right sin. The reason they were so beautiful in Warlords is because of their clear cut difference and lack of holy power cost. If we need to be aoe for a boss, lets say Helya, we would pick the Light's Hammer ability giving us presence in these aoe situations. Currently we rely on Divine Storm exclusively. And if we needed single target damage well then Execution Sentence was just dandy and worth the global cool down which gave us a distinct difference in aoe and single target encounters. We lack this clear cut different with the current talent build and Execution Sentence has been, well, executed.

    Our cool down usage has been "dumbed" down as well. In Warlords it was possible to have three strong cool downs in Legion we have Crusade, Crusade, and Crusade. This removed depth from the class. Previously we had the Seraphim bursts on the halfway mark of the Avenging Wrath cool down. This greatly improved our sustain dps and made our Avenging Wrath have a partner for incredible damage.

    My last qualm is our arms warrior look alike mastery. The only thing being how dramatically weaker our Judgment mastery is than the arm's warrior colossus smash. Just give us Hand of Light back.

    These changes would make retribution less boring and I for one would appreciate them:
    1. Base line the Final Verdict
    2. Replace Final Verdict with Light's Hammer
    3. Rework Consecration to make Judged targets receive a DOT based off bonus damage taken from Holy Spenders.
    4. Return our mastery to Hand of Light
    5. Give us Seraphim either as a talent or base line

  16. #16
    Please show me a personal design that you made so i can see from where is becoming your point of view.

  17. #17
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Come on, maintaining inquisition was interesting?
    Inquisition could've been more interesting if it was more than just a buff that took up part of your Holy Power every X seconds. Mostly people wanted some way for our rotation to refresh it (which would've been just fine, honestly). If they really wanted us to keep hitting that button, I think it should've come in two parts: the self-damage increase, plus a DoT on the target. Maybe the DoT could be spread through some mechanic or something.

    I haven't played the current iteration of Retribution, but from what I've read it seems there are no (or very few) procs?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Improtaight View Post
    +1
    imo the best Ret was that one, i despise the colossus gameplay!
    No. Inquisition gameplay was the absolute worst. Maintaining it wasn't even remotely fun. It was boring, useless, brainless and a waste of holy power.

    People have different opinions but the majority despised inquisition, hence its removal. The forums here and on the official site hated it deeply. It was an awful awful useless mechanic. They could've made it a lot better as well because the community did give some good feedback on how to make it work a bit better but that never happened so.

    We really haven't had a "best" design. Most have been kinda bleh. MoPs design would've been good without Inq for sure.

    Personally though I think Legions design is alright. Once might gets removed it'll be way better imo. But either way we haven't really had too many good rotations. Maybe MoP but inq was still present and still annoying.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    Inquisition could've been more interesting if it was more than just a buff that took up part of your Holy Power every X seconds. Mostly people wanted some way for our rotation to refresh it (which would've been just fine, honestly). If they really wanted us to keep hitting that button, I think it should've come in two parts: the self-damage increase, plus a DoT on the target. Maybe the DoT could be spread through some mechanic or something.

    I haven't played the current iteration of Retribution, but from what I've read it seems there are no (or very few) procs?
    Yeah ret has one proc as of now but it's talented. It's actually pretty fun with that proc. It doesn't hurt you or feel bad if you don't get it a lot but it does feel good when you do. Rets design is a really good way of using procs in a rotation.

    You also have DP but it's useless and you need to give up crusade for it so not many take it.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Come on, maintaining inquisition was interesting?
    I didn't say it was perfect. But I think I would take that situation over what we have now.

  20. #20
    I like the current paladin, better than it has been in the past, it was not that great at the start but once you get the haste cap it feels good.

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