Best solution to the Mythic raid size problem?

[styil]

There has been a lot of discussion as of late about the current fixed Mythic raid of 20 and the issues it presents. There have been a number of solutions floating around which I have consolidated in this thread. Which solution do you think is the most reasonable going foward (keeping in mind Blizzard's goals of balance, class composition and groups)?

[ThunderTaco]

Most reasonable for who ? Blizzard ? keeping it 20 man.

For the players ? Flexible. But it restricts design too much, so we have to deal with 20 man.

[tiptopmemer]

If you want to do mythic, join a mythic guild.

Mythic isn't made for casuals, casuals literally asked for more accessible difficulties, that's what flex is for.

The only difference between doing mythic this week and next week is cutting edge: xavius.

[cFortyfive]

The current fixed raid size of 20 is the best solution for everybody

Well well what do we have here another one of those styil gems.
20 is fine there is no problem. Mythic isn't content for everybody as such the content doesn't need a solution best for everybody.

[Sencha]

20 or 15 but keep it a fixed raid size.

[Dangg]

8. is poorly worded don't you think?

[ls-]

Voted 7, but 8 is fine.

As an ex 25ppl HC raider, I'd say that current raid size is quite good, it provides enough room for class diversity and/or class stacking.

However, I think that allowing cross-realm mythic raids may be a good thing, obviously it may cause some drama, but it's manageable, and guild vs guild drama is quite entertaining

[Fynzie]

The only thing you can object on Mythic raid size is server managment, period.

[Deztru]

Keeping it 20 is best for most raiders, but having an "unofficial" 10man mythic wouldn't hurt the smaller communities

Heroic is a faceroll, not having a 10man "top tier" difficulty is a horrible situation to be stuck in.

[Fyersing]

The problem with polling this now, as opposed to say before WoD, is that roughly 60% of all guilds were exclusively participating in 10-man; if we assume that Legion hasn't fully reversed the subscription bleed, then it would be perfectly reasonable to expect that, with nothing compelling them to play, many of these people have simply unsubscribed by now.

I'm all for a single raid size, for balance involved purposes, but the appropriate size is 10-man.

[Deleted]

The problem with polling this now, as opposed to say before WoD, is that roughly 60% of all guilds were exclusively participating in 10-man; if we assume that Legion hasn't fully reversed the subscription bleed, then it would be perfectly reasonable to expect that, with nothing compelling them to play, many of these people have simply unsubscribed by now.

I'm all for a single raid size, for balance involved purposes, but the appropriate size is 10-man.

rather 15 then 10 for M if the size changes espcialy with now 36specs being in the game.

[Frolk]

the "size problem" is only for wannabe "mythic raiding" guilds, 20man is fine.

[Deleted]

Best solution? Do away with Mythic. Bring back 10 and 25 man Normal/Heroic raids.

And btw, I'm a Mythic raider. I find it completely unnecessary. Just another difficulty to burn me out on.

then dont do anything under hc maybe?

[BraveNewWorld]

10m and 20m raids would be perfect. Just make sure they are tuned (nearly) identically, and lock them so you can't do both in the same week

[Wrecktangle]

20 is fine there is no problem. Mythic isn't content for everybody as such the content doesn't need a solution best for everybody.

No one here is talking about a solution for everybody. People are talking about ideas that could improve upon existing weaknesses in the static 20 man server only mythic space.

If you believe that there are no problems with the existing model you'd be wrong. If you believe that none of the above are solutions to existing issues then state that, and state the why/how you arrive at that conclusion for the sake of the discussion. Also fun fact, just because something is fine doesn't mean it can't be improved.

Heroic is a faceroll, not having a 10man "top tier" difficulty is a horrible situation to be stuck in.

Heroic is far too face roll for an experienced player like me. I could go raid mythic if I wanted too, but finding a guild on my server who raids the days I can at the times I can and is looking for the exact spec I play, well that's a challenge.

While I'd love 10 man raiding again if nothing else for the gameplay, I don't see the value in that model again. I didn't enjoy doing 2 different raid sizes back in WotLK and I don't think I'd enjoy it now. They'd need to implement some barrier that says you can only do one or the other, but then you'd have loot disparity (it wouldn't be fair to give identical loot, less people = less risk of failure = easier) and you'd be almost right back to square one at that point.

Thankfully I've been finding the M+ system scratches my difficult itch pretty well for small group content. I recently proposed the idea of raid encounters styled in dungeon format, but the big issue there was room sizes aren't adequately tuned for 5 players and I couldn't find ways to make tanking engaging with one tank.

the "size problem" is only for wannabe "mythic raiding" guilds, 20man is fine.

Sick post kid.

So What do you do when you log on and only have 18 people? You *could* pug, but then you have to spend the time to find a quality player. What happens to that player now? He's locked to your specific instance and is done for the week because you brought him to one boss kill.

What do you do if you have 22 people online that are geared and want to raid. What do those other 2 do? They sit and wait, get swapped in or out, etc.

No offense, but if I'm going to be sitting 1/3 to 2/3 a raid night I have better things to do with my time. I play the game to play, not to wait.

What do you do if you're on a small pop server and the raiding pool is small and a 4 close friends xfer off. Recruiting is a nightmare to find 4 new players who are capable before the bleed gets worse and more leave.

The idea would be to develop improvements that benefit the guild and the player.

So let me ask you this...What is the downside to allowing flex 18-22 in mythic raiding. Sure it'll be "harder" to tune properly, but how much harder to tune, enough to be a complete detriment (if you believe so please explain why and how)?

[Spotnick]

Problem? What problem? It's fine as it is.

If you have issues recruiting people, you'll have the exact same issue whatever the raid size is.

[Tydan]

There is nothing wrong with the current mythic raid system

[Fyersing]

rather 15 then 10 for M if the size changes espcialy with now 36specs being in the game.

This is mostly just an irrelevancy.

Even Blizzard, who created this talking point when they gave their (in hindsight, hilariously terrible) explanation for why they chose 20-man over either 15-man or 10-man, has more or less backtracked on this issue; virtually everything mentioned in the initial blue post by Lore, be it the reasonable expectation that all classes will be represented better in 20-mans versus 10/15-mans or that all classes would have something inherently niche to their class that would make, is completely irrelevant to the game as it is.

If ensuring that every raid group was likely to have at least one of every class was important to Blizzard, they wouldn't have taken away many of the abilities which are uniquely and intrinsically class-based (Aspect of the Fox, Innervate, WotLK's Hymn of Hope, etc.) nor would they have stopped creating fights which require certain class abilities (i.e. Mind Control or Shackle Undead, Turn Undead, Holy Wrath, etc.). Thus, encouraging groups to maintain a balance of classes seems to have taken an extreme backseat to... well, everything.

The stated purpose of making Mythic 20-man exclusive was to ensure that all classes would be represented, but if not all classes are going to represented anyways, what was the point of flipping the bird to the MAJORITY of people who elected not to do 20/25-man content in favor of 5/10-man content? Note, I'm just going to giggle at you if you talk about 10-mans being easier because the roster of the most decorated guild in the world disagrees with you, officially, as does virtually all commentary by the developers.

[Deavane]

There has been a lot of discussion as of late about the current fixed Mythic raid of 20 and the issues it presents. There have been a number of solutions floating around which I have consolidated in this thread. Which solution do you think is the most reasonable going foward (keeping in mind Blizzard's goals of balance, class composition and groups)?

Keep it 20. Find someone who will pick up recruitment as a second job. Enjoy Mythic. Kidding, but recruit constantly, never stop. Build a consistent roster. Climb guild ranks. Have an easier time recruiting because people want to join you more and more.

[Heladys]

There is no problem with it.

Back in the day raid size was 40 and you brought 40 people end of story.

Now it's 20. You want to be counted among the elite, you do what the encounter demands of you instead of whining about your circumstances. If you aren't capable of getting that many people you don't run mythic.