PTR 7.1.5 Summary

[Hulahoops]

Our Holy Paladins tend to take Sanctified Wrath.

Are... are you sure about that?

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Your pallies are using JoL and not SW, however they're BOTH using JoL on the same fights.. so... yeah...

[Eon Drache]

Both of your Holy Pallies are taking JoL.

warcraftlogs.com/ reports/ZcgPz6NXJWkCwrjm#fight=44&type=healing
warcraftlogs.com/ rankings/character/21452/10/#metric=hps
warcraftlogs.com/ rankings/character/17372516/latest/#metric=hps

SW is crap now, since it's nerf, and it causes a ton of overhealing. The only reason we ever spec into it, is if there's another Holy Pally, with higher int or has JoL ring.

DI or DS is much better than Rets going JoL. Sure, there will slightly be a higher raid hps, but we don't care about that most of the time.

So despite better overall healing with a ret taking JoL the ret is better off taking no talent so the holy pallies can look better? From the sounds of it you should never bring 2 holy pallies because 1 will just be total trash. I may not have checked well enough for JoL because we also had a prot paladin a while ago. But from what I see the difference between a prot and holy paladin taking JoL is a few mil over the course of a fight. SW Doesn't cover a few mil?

[Hulahoops]

if you're looking at the JoL healing done by your own paladins on those logs, that healing is WAY less than it should be because they're both using it and it doesn't stack, so they're gimping each other.

And both of your holy pallies have Ilterendi.. you should NEVER be taking JoL over them, ever. Never ever ever.

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Also I'm sorry, but Ret taking "no talent"? Let's not get over-dramatic here. Mobility and DI - yes even post nerf - are still totally viable talents and will still give you benefit.

You can absolutely take two HPals to raid, in fact that's what my guild does. But only one of them can use JoL. The other does not become total trash. Nobody is here saying that SW is a garbage talent, it's still decent, but JoL is better, and it's better in the hands of the HPal in terms of the healing your raid will receive.

Please get off your high horse assuming that it's all about 'padding' and 'looking better' on metres.. from a healer perspective that's just laughable.

[Ulthane]

The 20k was from a dummy test, so probably skewed. You're right about that. Still, once Nighthold starts I will probably start off with DP since I can't judge the "safe" Crusade windows yet to 100% and we all know what happens if you mess up a single Crusade due to bad timing. Though I also have the Chains as legendary, so that will change the numbers quite a bit come 7.1.5 anyway.

Still, my raid leader himself said that it's better to lose a few thousand dps than losing me altogether, so there you go. Do I wish DP would be competitive? Hell yes. Do I feel forced to use Crusade? Absolutely. Do I actually use it? We'll see :P

Truths. Very much so, though I feel with TFOJ and 4pc proc it may return to how it was almost with Blackrock Foundry almost so perhaps maybe it might return to being competitive with tier. But i cant say for certain.

[Eon Drache]

if you're looking at the JoL healing done by your own paladins on those logs, that healing is WAY less than it should be because they're both using it and it doesn't stack, so they're gimping each other.

And both of your holy pallies have Ilterendi.. you should NEVER be taking JoL over them, ever. Never ever ever.

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Also I'm sorry, but Ret taking "no talent"? Let's not get over-dramatic here. Mobility and DI - yes even post nerf - are still totally viable talents and will still give you benefit.

You can absolutely take two HPals to raid, in fact that's what my guild does. But only one of them can use JoL. The other does not become total trash. Nobody is here saying that SW is a garbage talent, it's still decent, but JoL is better, and it's better in the hands of the HPal in terms of the healing your raid will receive.

Please get off your high horse assuming that it's all about 'padding' and 'looking better' on metres.. from a healer perspective that's just laughable.

I actually looked at a few fights and compared the Holy Paladins and Prot paladins using JoL to see what the differences were. I'm not on a high horse I'm genuinely confused. I did say I don't play Holy, right?

[Hulahoops]

True, my apologies. The difference is fairly significant.

Taking a precursory look at some logs from Mythic Guarm, for example, if you sort by healing rankings of prot paladins, the top five prot pallies (by HPS done) are doing roughly 9-12 million healing over the course of the fight from JoL.

If you look at entirely mediocre logs from Holy Pallies on the same fight, they're getting anywhere from 10-18 million healing over the course of the fight from JoL. The potential for JoL healing from an HPal is higher than from Prot or Ret.

It will always come down to whether or not the Pally is judging on cooldown, the other healing being done - JoL won't overheal, so if the other healers are badass and keep everyone topped off, JoL won't do nearly as well - the damage taken, DPS uptime on the boss, etc. Hence the large variance. But still, there is definitely a difference, and I personally would find it hard to believe that SW would provide an additional 6-8 million effective healing over a 3.5 minute - 4 minute fight.

An Hpal (without Ilterendi) with SW and a Prot/Ret pally with JoL could potentially achieve higher overall raid HPS than Prot with Cons Ground and HPal with JoL, but the circumstances for that to occur post SW nerf basically require the Hpal to do little to no overhealing during AW, and currently that's almost impossible.

For you personally, since both of your very lucky Hpals have Ilterendi, you should never spec JoL. You should, however, perhaps mention to them that they are both using JoL on the same fights and they are really hurting each other's healing throughput. Since they both have the ring, the Pally with the higher intellect rating should be using JoL, and the other should go SW.

[dnicks17]

I wonder if I'll be able to heal low M+ as ret with the WoG buff.

Been doing it in heroics and it actually feels kind of broken haha. Seems to always crit for ~700k.

[fangless]

As a healer, I cry that now all 3 specs have JoL and will make it awkward with everyone else's cast of it.

Holy specs get the benefit of having it actually heal for an alright amount, crits and all. It's borderline zero overheal, and very effective for 1 gcd.

[GT4]

As a healer, I cry that now all 3 specs have JoL and will make it awkward with everyone else's cast of it.

Holy specs get the benefit of having it actually heal for an alright amount, crits and all. It's borderline zero overheal, and very effective for 1 gcd.

If there's only 1 boss everybody is attacking, holy and ret cannot keep it up anyway (prot can come close though). If there's more than one target, you can just coordinate so that you put it up on another target. Unless you're stacking paladins, this really shouldn't be that big of a deal.

[stolker]

Looks like they removed the buff Shield of Vengeance. Too bad!

[Shavier]

Looks like they removed the buff Shield of Vengeance. Too bad!

It wasn't a buff, it was a tooltip hotfix, actual shield was giving 2x what tooltip was saying. I already can have 1,3M absorb shield when crit (2,6M with legend) why would they buff it?

[Nition]

So execution sentence is simming ahead of Final Vedict for single target. Does anyone know if the judgement debuff increases its damage when you cast execution sentence, or when it actually lands. In other words, is the ideal time to cast execution sentence always going to be right after I judgement a target?