Immigrants lead the way in demanding assimilation, study finds

[Spectral]

So, what then, are Germans supposed to be grateful that five out of six don't revile the nation they've moved to? How does this jibe with the 22 percent of young Muslims in Germany that think suicide bombing against civilian targets is justifiable (page 60 in this Pew Poll)? I guess some of these folks are willing to adopt some German values, but it's hard to put aside all of the jihad.

Whatever.

[Austilias]

I don't know what's funnier, that you think learning a language before moving was what was done "before." Because it's not like we have foreign language teachers or the internet that actually make these things possible now.

Or that people learn a language before moving. Which is A) A giant waste of fucking time, because you cannot reasonably learn a language without living with the locals and talking it daily and B) A giant waste of fucking time. A lot of people that will move due to job opportunities will learn the language while out there, love immigrants will learn the language out there and refugees don't really get a choice. So which group of people do you think learn a language to then move to a country?

Do you even speak another language?

So you're saying that throughout history, most people have moved to another country without knowing a word of the native language? They go entirely unprepared?

Alright, you win. I'm the unreasonable one

There are obviously 'degrees' of knowledge with respect to a language. You can obviously only learn so much without actually 'living' the language, but the fact remains that you at least have to grasp the basics before 'immersing' yourself.

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I'm sure there are hundreds of reputable German learning centers all across Syria, Lybia and other assorted more-or-less developped, more-or-less wartorn countries.

All refugees are immigrants. Not all immigrants are refugees.

Given the thread title, I'm referring to immigrants in general. Refugees do not account for many or even 'most' of all immigrants.

[drakensoul]

So you're saying that throughout history, most people have moved to another country without knowing a word of the native language? They go entirely unprepared?

Alright, you win. I'm the unreasonable one

There are obviously 'degrees' of knowledge with respect to a language. You can obviously only learn so much without actually 'living' the language, but the fact remains that you at least have to grasp the basics before 'immersing' yourself.

This is an assumption and is actually untrue. You require no underlying knowledge of a language to begin an immersion program, and immersion is still the best way to learn a language. The fact that immigrants will often create their own microcosms with people who speak their native language and impede immersion doesn't negate the fact that immersion is the fastest way to learn a language.

In other words, the idea--which you've suggested by saying people need the 'basics' before coming--that someone should pick up a vocabulary book and learn a few words and some grammar before coming or they'll be left behind... I suppose technically knowing a word or two might?? might help? In the sense that you would know how to say "Bathroom" before having learned the language. But no, the fastest way to learn it is to pack up, move, and start living with someone who speaks the new language and doesn't speak your native language. The "pre-knowledge" will quickly be displaced and is rather irrelevant to the actual learning process which is being done via a completely different pathway.

And you neglected to answer the one question which might give you some credibility... have you learned any other languages? Not taken them in high school, but learned them well enough to survive were it the only language you could use?

Having learned (fluently) Spanish and (moderately) Portuguese and having studied linguistics in undergrad, the fastest way for anyone to learn is to move here and cut off the safety net.

Creating these superfluous pseudo-analyses of how a hypothetical person might have done it in 1432 based on nothing other than an opinion probably doesn't hold much weight. This is an actual field of study.

[Xanjori]

So you're saying that throughout history, most people have moved to another country without knowing a word of the native language? They go entirely unprepared?.

Uh, yes. It's entirely fucking obviously yes? I mean, did you actually even think this through?

[Krawu]

1. Not a credible source
2. Just going outside and looking around proves to me that this clearly is NOT the case. I still hear arabic gibberish when I see immigrants talking among eachother.

2 things:

You going outside is waaaay less of a credible source than a published 104 page study by a renowned institute.

If you are in a foreign country, even if you've already learned the language there, why would you speak that instead of your native language to those who understand it. It's not like anyone's demanding you learn their "gibberish". Though it might give you some perspective.

I spent 8 months in Japan after learning the language for 3 years. I was sharing communal housing with Americans, Belgians, Australians and other Germans, and we'd always use English or German, be it in public or in private, simply because everyone was more familiar with it. We'd only switch to Japanese when a Japanese person was present as to not be rude. Why would it be any different for immigrants?

[drakensoul]

Calling a language "gibberish" because you can't understand it is as thoughtful as calling the latest scientific breakthrough "voodoo" because you don't understand it. The voodoo of quarks!

It doesn't make you look smart or funny to anyone but yourself.

[Spectral]

http://www.debate.org/opinions/shoul...he-middle-east

With statistics like those it seems a good idea to replace entire nations with Muslims.

Hey, a troll-poll online is basically the same thing as Pew, right?

At a bare minimum, we can do Muslims a favor by keeping them safe, as far away from evil, Islamophobic Americans as possible. The last thing anyone should want is to place them in harm's way in the States.

In any case, you should probably move to a Middle Eastern nation where you'll be pretty safe if your rhetoric is to be trusted, eh?

[Jastall]

So you're saying that throughout history, most people have moved to another country without knowing a word of the native language? They go entirely unprepared?

Alright, you win. I'm the unreasonable one

There are obviously 'degrees' of knowledge with respect to a language. You can obviously only learn so much without actually 'living' the language, but the fact remains that you at least have to grasp the basics before 'immersing' yourself.

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All refugees are immigrants. Not all immigrants are refugees.

Given the thread title, I'm referring to immigrants in general. Refugees do not account for many or even 'most' of all immigrants.

Replace Syria and Lybia with any other country that doesn't have first-world infrastructure if you wish. The point is, when you're not even sure if or where you're going to be accepted as a legal immigrant, learning a language can be a pretty big waste of time. These people don't apply to one country and usually don't have the ressources or time to start taking courses that they can much more easily take once they arrive.

Besides, even perfectly integrated people still use their native languages from time to time. I live near Montreal and I hear Portugese, Arabic, Spanish, Chinese, and Hebrew (among others) if I go to places where these people tend to congregate, or even in the streets. That doesn't mean they can't turn around and converse with me in french or english if they want to. Assimilating in a culture doesn't mean leaving your language and cultural heritage behind entirely.

[Tennis]

Yet in Europe if you ask an african for cocaine near a train station you still have 90% of having some in the next 15 minutes and if you see a black woman after 20h you still have 90% chance that she's a hooker. If you see a group of north african walking on the sideway after 20h you still better to switch side and lower your head if you're alone.

Source : Leave your computer and your daily routine of work / shitposting / sleep and go out in the real world for once.

Damn this guy is so retarded he will end up moderator in less than a year here.



Central and North Africa, the economic migrants. Yes yes I know, they're all gay and oppressed in their country and I'm a liar.

Don't believe this. Need multiple sources to back these claims up otherwise it's pure stereotyping and xenophobia.

[gyrados]

sigh another bullshit thread by tennisace trying to cause drama such sadness

[psyquest]

people with entrenched prejudice will not change their mind even if confronted with overwhelming evidence from multiple sources.

This I have always find true and the more prejudiced and racist a person is and the more unlikely they are to accept evidence. Only life changing personal experience can change this kind of peoples views.

[primalmatter]

people with entrenched prejudice will not change their mind even if confronted with overwhelming evidence from multiple sources.

This I have always find true and the more prejudiced and racist a person is and the more unlikely they are to accept evidence. Only life changing personal experience can change this kind of peoples views.

That begs the question. How do you kill a god?

How do you destroy a belief system drenched in blood with fanatics willing to give up their lives?

If you can not give a timely solution we are better off without them.

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One of the weird excuses I hear about the Pew polls is that they (the people polled)are lying due to peer pressure.... I am not exactly sure how that is better, or why they would lie about stuff like that.

They tend to focus their polls on areas that will give them the results they want. It was why cnn predicted a victory of 98% for Clinton

[Tennis]

sigh another bullshit thread by tennisace trying to cause drama such sadness

I posted a thread based on a study to debunk false claims that are propagated from some segments in society.

[Cizr]

How do they want to learn german when most of them cant even read or write? Are they teaching them that first?

[Kraenen]

"all three groups agreed that society lacked guiding ideals (37-40 percent)".

I have been saying this for a while... and my main thread about multiculturalism a while back was exactly about this issue.

The best way to integrate immigrants, is to not have them live in ghettos, and have them fall in love with the ideals the country stands for. In the US that is not too hard... in the EU it seems people dislike the idea of any kind of national identity, even as generic as "Western" or "Humanistic" values.

I wonder what guiding ideals they mean... *cough* Islam

[Orlong]

I've got some news for you: It's none of your business what other people are talking about.

It is when they are doing it in public!!!

[Austilias]

Uh, yes. It's entirely fucking obviously yes? I mean, did you actually even think this through?

Just wanted to see if you seriously meant what you were saying.

Someone had better go tell Rosetta Stone and all those language teachers we have in schools/etc that they are entirely wasting their time, and that all you have to do to learn a language is to go to the country of whatever language is in question

[Kraenen]

You don't learn a new language overnight.

You should learn it before you come to a new country. Not only is it dumb not to do this but incredibly disrespectful to the natives.

If I moved to Japan (something I'd like to do) I'd learn Japanese beforehand, know their customs so I could use them properly and respect the country I go to.

[Tennis]

How do they want to learn german when most of them cant even read or write? Are they teaching them that first?

Most of them can't? Where are you getting this info from?

[primalmatter]

I posted a thread based on a study to debunk false claims that are propagated from some segments in society.

You posted a bullshit survey to do a moral grandstand and ended up with egg on your face...

It is almost a meme here at this point.