How does one climb any corporate/work ladder?

[Ruunicus]

Also, alot of people mention that i need a diploma for all the jobs, to which i disagree, by saying knowledge, not paper, is important

This is probably the biggest part of the answer. You won't get anywhere (excepting the anomalous entrepreneur or "gift horse" factor) without a diploma. You need a diploma in something (preferably in your work field) to be on a level playing field with others trying to do the same thing. It is a GREAT benefit but it also allows you to not hit the ground running behind the rest of the pack. It's simply a must nowadays.

It's also the easiest way to climb up the ladder in the corporate World as you usually get to start halfway up.

My opinion (and this is coming from someone in the corporate World) - Formal education is simply the easiest way to climb the corporate ladder (by a HUGE margin). I've never stepped on anyone and I'm less than 5 years in this environment and I've already skipped many stepping stones (mind you, I'm also very prideful of my work and do the best I am able - this DOES make a difference as well. I don't have any severe job-changing, cut-throat experiences like you see on TV).

[meheez]

You won't get anywhere (excepting the anomalous entrepreneur or "gift horse" factor) without a diploma.

Im sorry, but as long as there is no legal requirement for a job (licence or smth), i call bullshit. Or a rationalization comming from people who already own a diploma and want others stand in the back of the line (and not advance), completelly missing the point that you can learn most of the stuff needed online for free.

[kamuimac]

You use your co-workers as steps for the stairs to the top.

and very very few people have the mental capability for this - if you are not sociopath its really hard sometimes.

[shadowmouse]

i call bullshit

Learning online can help you get knowledge, but at some point you need certification and connections. Nobody has a year or two to see how solid your knowledge is, they hire one of the other 200 guys who want the job and who can produce the paperwork to show they are a safer bet. The other thing that is missing is connections, both through the people you went to school with (and their extended network) and the faculty. Professor Fenstermacher's recommendation may carry a variable amount of weight, but it will usually go further than: "I watched a lot on Youtube and I'm confident that I know the material, go on and ask me anything."

Some areas allow a greater deviation from this pattern than others, but you've posed a general question and these are the answers that generally apply. Sure, you can throw around Bill Gates' name ... but then nobody wrote books on all the other guys who didn't get lucky.

[Elim Garak]

and very very few people have the mental capability for this - if you are not sociopath its really hard sometimes.

Then take your place as a step.

[meheez]

ALSO - you've already demonstrated one of the least desirable qualities of an entry-level employee --- inability to take coaching.

What makes you believe i need coaching in anything you provide?

Opinions arent facts. Yeah, i understand that there are jackasses out there who dont have time for anything else but checkboxes for diplomas etc. System isnt perfect. Thus its pretty naive to give into it.

[DStrukt]

get yourself involved and talk to them, not necessarily brown nose or lick ass but just be friendly.. no one likes a creep

I do alot in work that isnt even my job, to help the business with my other skills I can do which is greatly appreciated and I always the talk of the place

[Kokolums]

after 30 years in the corporate world here is what i can tell you. Outside of working hard and good performance.


- Suck up and be politically correct, never directly and openly disagree with the people currently in power and always attack the people they attack.

- Jump positions/divisions/teams instead of expecting to climb a position you are currently in. So much more money jumping jobs then performance raises in your current job.

- Lie. But don't get to crazy about them. Telling the truth, everyone knows, but no one wants to hear gets you labeled a trouble maker


- Learn other people's jobs. you are better when you know your job and the 3 associated to your job. Makes you valuable.


- Learn to Bluff. Nothing scares management more then a great employee getting ready to leave, and they don't need to know you are not really ready to leave.



- Dirt, always listen for it always have it ready. Going to your bosses boss and knowing all the dirt on him, can be negotiation points to get you eventually into his job....will also protect your job when needed.


- Always be on call. Be the guy they can call anytime they fuck up and need someone.


- Do more work then expected but not 200% more then expected. save that kind of work push for when they "really really need it". Even though you know you can do 200% more then they expect out of you, if you save that kind of performance for when they need it, it will make you look 20x better.


- Network, Know everyone and what their jobs are. Do favors and gather "owe ya ones". Nothing like calling in a favor when you need one or twelve when going for that big big job.


Climbing the corporate ladder believe it or not is more like mafia movies then one would think. Its more games played, then actual performance.

I want to point out that the correct way to construct an organization so that it runs as flawlessly as possible is to eliminate people with high social status and eliminate people who gossip (basically the same group). The reason is when you do that, you have a group of people that are just focused on their jobs and not a bunch of crap. Basically, you weed out people who think exactly like the poster I quoted thinks. These are the types of people to eliminate from your organization.

Corruption is defined as people who worry more about social status than their job. Corruption means when a hard decision is to be made, they choose the route that best protects their social status instead of doing the job right.

[callipygoustp]

It really depends on the industry. When I was coming out of high school I was initially looking at going into accounting. Breaking into that field at a minimum required a four year degree. Being the slacker I was, I only went to college for two years, and then said, essentially, "fuck it" : grabbed a surf board and a couple thousand in savings and moved to California to be a bum for the summer. Next thing I know, I'm working in the software industry sans any formal education or experience. That was 27 years ago. 27 years of success without having had any formal education or industry specific experience.

With regards to climbing the ladder since then:
The tech industry makes self-promotion pretty easy. I feel spoiled. On average, from 24 to 40ish, I'm 48 now, I was promoted roughly every 2 years. I've never been promoted for doing the "same ole same ole". My "promotions" have come one of two ways:
1. I implemented something new for a team I was working on that significantly improved process and was recognized for it.
2. When feeling under appreciated, I actively pursued a higher level position outside of my current team. In this case I brought something to a new team that they definitely needed. Solving a team's problem in an interview resulted in offers, on a couple occasions, before I had left the building. Them - "Do you have any question for our team?" Me - "I do. What problem is your team currently trying to resolve?"
In summary: bringing something to a team that that team needs has led to promotion after promotion for me. This probably isn't an option for a lot of other industries.

[TrumpIsPresident]

I don't think working a minimum wage job in a supermarket provides a direct or realistic path to an executive position of any kind.

It can happen.

The President/CEO of Walmart started as an hourly product handler at a distribution center.

[Deleted]

I've found that there are 4 ways, two major ones and two minor ones.

The major ones:
- You're ok at the job but friends with all the people who are/would be above you. In this case it doesn't matter if there are better people for that job or for the position, you win.

- You change jobs every 2-3 years, advancing to better positions each time. For this you need great skill at interviews.

The minor ones:
- you get lucky

- you get promoted on skill
These last two are minor as they happen less. Yeah, I'm sorry to say, but in many, if not most companies, the people promoted will either be friends of the bosses or come from the outside by great impression on bosses with their resumes and talk.

[Adolecent]

Hard work and alot of lubricant. And the less working right you've got, the more lubricant you need.

[TrumpIsPresident]

My post does not indicate that it's literally impossible, only that it's an incredibly poor approach, which it most certainly is.

World needs plenty of bartenders.

[belfpala]

I've found that there are 4 ways, two major ones and two minor ones.

The major ones:
- You're ok at the job but friends with all the people who are/would be above you. In this case it doesn't matter if there are better people for that job or for the position, you win.

- You change jobs every 2-3 years, advancing to better positions each time. For this you need great skill at interviews.

The minor ones:
- you get lucky

- you get promoted on skill
These last two are minor as they happen less. Yeah, I'm sorry to say, but in many, if not most companies, the people promoted will either be friends of the bosses or come from the outside by great impression on bosses with their resumes and talk.

You generally get a better opportunity ( that is, position and pay) by jumping ship every couple years, compared to being promoted within. (the latter often leads to a more impressive title, and more responsibilities with a minimal raise).

As to how to elevate? Lots of good advice already given. Be social. Go to work events. Make something your own.

Not everyone is ambitious. My father was happy just being a code debugger for a major software company. My mother, oth, retired one level down from CEO of a Fortune 500 company. As for myself, I never stop. I'm on my fifth business. In other words, I created my own and put myself on top. That's one way, but you need a vision or drive (both) to do that.

[callipygoustp]

Hard work and alot of lubricant. And the less working right you've got, the more lubricant you need.

LOL, best strategy yet!

[kamuimac]

It can happen.

The President/CEO of Walmart started as an hourly product handler at a distribution center.

heres the thing - just because something can happen with like 1/1000000 chance it doesnt mean that people should blindly belive it htat the same will happen to them - instead they should analyze 999999/1000000 paths to succes and copy most used ones.

and i bet you right now that the most used one is :
a)have rich parents
b)have rich family
c)have good connections/friends

where any of a,b,c can simply make a call and get you senior managment position. or alternatively simply fund you and buy you a company in which you will be ceo.

[meheez]

But again, you don't have to listen to any of this.

haha nah i like your opinion for sure. Thanks for the effort. You are right saying that people are giving alot of advice (from the practical standpoint).

But lets say, i want to do things better, and maybe get to the bottom of the facts of the issue, rather than follow the practical (and, you are right, probably true) advices.

[Flame6]

My last successful interview was a department transfer and a promotion. The staff I would be supervising all put in a good word from me, because of my friendly / positive attitude. I later learned that nobody who interviewed had all the qualifications they were looking for, so they picked someone who they thought would be friendly and motivating.

TLDR: I got the job because I'm nice and people like me.

[Katchii]

It's a pretty complex combination of what you know, who you know and how well you are able to present both your work and yourself. Most people above you have no fucking clue what you actually do. They also usually don't notice anything unless it's not working and they notice the people who fix it and the people who caused it. You get no credit for a problem you caused.

Because they don't take notice of most of what happens, the only way many people have of getting noticed is to ensure they get in good with the people who are able to talk about you to the people who have the authority to move you up. Simply showing up to work and doing a good job is not likely to move you up quickly or at all. You have to be able to sell what you did in a positive light and in a manner that resonates with the people above you who can move you up. Impressing someone who can't do anything for you doesn't get you anything. Being able to identify the people who can help you, understanding what they find important and working that perspective to your advantage is how people move up.

Alongside all of this is the perception of you being a good worker and being able and willing to change your work-life balance (corporations usually fast track those who prioritize work over life).

The part that sucks (depending on your point of view) is that you don't even have to BE a good worker to be perceived as one, you just have to be really good at selling what you do, or be good at taking credit for, other peoples work. Because again, people above you don't usually understand or see what exactly is going on below them so it's very easy for someone to take credit for someone else's work if they were only marginally involved.

[TrumpIsPresident]

Alcohol is an anchor weighing down human achievement.

The #1 thing weighing down human achievement is humanity, or certain parts of it.