Universities warned over 'snowflake' student demands

[Elba]

One is affirmative action. It can be considered a micro aggression to merely disagree with the idea of affirmative action. A safe space has been a way of shielding students from this.

Do you have a concrete example of this claim?

"People of color" distinguishes those who don't have color as less than those who do. It's very anti-progressive.

You know that is bs. Please don't concern troll. I am arguing in good faith.

If you pay for it 100% and if it doesn't have any validity in academia or the workplace, go for it, I hope they make you happy. If you want it to have those latter validities along with tax payer funding, you'll have to have more rigorous intellectual standards in place.

I don't see how quality of the product and customer satisfaction are mutually exclusive.

Oh, and personally I don't want this. I want yanks and brits to have free college too. It's awesome.

[Deleted]

I'm sure you've always been of the opinion that schools should be treated like businesses instead of places of academia and learning.

Right? Suddenly see left-leaning posters that think schools shouldn't be run like businesses going "well, customers should be satisfied with the product" when people are criticising measures that promote socjus and student coddling lul.

[Elba]

Right? Suddenly see left-leaning posters that think schools shouldn't be run like businesses going "well, customers should be satisfied with the product" when people are criticising measures that promote socjus and student coddling lul.

Actually no, we want free colleges for everybody. But if colleges have to be a business in your countries they better be the best damn businesses.

[Deleted]

But if colleges have to be a business in your countries they better be the best damn businesses.

They aren't a business. The government recuperates a pittance compared to what they hand out in loans (it's a huge loss) because most students will never earn enough to pay it back. The universities themselves are all charities, except for a handful that are for-profit

[hydrium]

I mean, Europe is so far gone it's basically worthless at this point.

[Kraenen]

Do you have a concrete example of this claim?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-pot-and-more/

But of course this concept is now being used to suppress not just, say, personal insults or discrimination in hiring or grading, but also ideas that the UC wants to exclude from university classrooms. Here, from the UC Office of the President, Academic and Personnel Programs department’s site (promoted, for instance, here, here, and here), are some of what the UC wants to see stamped out, in classrooms and presumably elsewhere as well:
...
[Theme:] Color Blindness[:] Statements that indicate that a White person does not want to or need to acknowledge race.
[Microaggression Examples:] “There is only one race, the human race.”
“America is a melting pot.”
“I don’t believe in race.” …
[Theme:] Denial of Individual Racism/Sexism/Heterosexism[:] A statement made when bias is denied….
[Microaggression Examples:] … To a person of color: “Are you sure you were being followed in the store? I can’t believe it.” …
[Theme:] Myth of Meritocracy[:] Statements which assert that race or gender does not play a role in life successes, for example in issues like faculty demographics.
[Microaggression Examples:] “I believe the most qualified person should get the job.”
“Of course he’ll get tenure, even though he hasn’t published much — he’s Black!”
“Men and women have equal opportunities for achievement.”
“Gender plays no part in who we hire.”
“America is the land of opportunity.”
“Everyone can succeed in this society, if they work hard enough.”
“Affirmative action is racist.”

This is a long list of anything that could be considered a micro aggression (at the time and place specified by the article). Notice how none of these actually attack people on their identity? They're all about which ideas someone can espouse (only one is mildly on the line).

You know that is bs. Please don't concern troll. I am arguing in good faith.

I'm not sure what concern trolling is or why you'd think addressing your racism is trolling in some way. I guess you just think racism against whites is a joke. That's on you bud.

I don't see how quality of the product and customer satisfaction are mutually exclusive.
Oh, and personally I don't want this. I want yanks and brits to have free college too. It's awesome.

I'd love free college. No one having to pay for college would be awesome! I don't think there's any possibility of it happening though given people generally want to be paid money when they do a job.

[hydrium]

Actually no, we want free colleges for everybody. But if colleges have to be a business in your countries they better be the best damn businesses.

Stop saying free, it's utterly misleading. You want decreased wealth in exchange for government authority.

[Kraenen]

Actually no, we want free colleges for everybody. But if colleges have to be a business in your countries they better be the best damn businesses.

Do you want them to be for profit and pleasing the customer or to get the best education for society? Do we want kids who are satisfied or adults who are mature and educated?

Safe spaces and making kids feel good are the antithesis of an educated, mature adult.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

The satisfaction students seek should be based on the quality of their education. That being said, Universities also need to evolve with the times.

[Deleted]

Stop saying free, it's utterly misleading. You want decreased wealth in exchange for government authority.

The nitpick is silly on both sides of the coin.

Most people see a £9000/year tuition fee in the UK and think that's the amount a student ends up paying. It isn't, unless you're rich and can afford it. What most people actually pay back is determined later by their income post-graduation, and then the rest is written off after 30 years. You pay nothing per month if you're on £21k or less. £30/month at £25k.

The best way to think of a UK student loan is simply as a graduate tax. We could make it "free" by just taxing graduates and removing the loan entirely. The only real differences would be rich kids wouldn't pay up front, and your credit score would be a bit nicer.

[retrograde]

How the fuck you work that out? My dad didn't pay for my uni, I took on a job and took the debt to my name, and I'll be the one that pays it off.

At some point I would assume you would have been taught that when people make statements such as that, they often times aren't blanket statements that place EVERYONE into a category and you shouldn't feel offended or be compelled to announce that you are the exception to that statement. Comes across as stating the obvious, when most people know that SOME people don't have their parents paying for their adult education. His point still stands though, coddling does little good and ends up creating the people we see today running amok, shouting down differing opinions, and just being disgusting people in general.

[Elba]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-pot-and-more/



This is a long list of anything that could be considered a micro aggression (at the time and place specified by the article). Notice how none of these actually attack people on their identity? They're all about which ideas someone can espouse (only one is mildly on the line).

So a university offers voluntary courses on microaggressions and the author of the article panics. Looks like he is afraid of differing ideas and wants a safe space.

I'm not sure what concern trolling is or why you'd think addressing your racism is trolling in some way. I guess you just think racism against whites is a joke. That's on you bud.

"People of color" is racist against white people? Are you even trying?

I'd love free college. No one having to pay for college would be awesome! I don't think there's any possibility of it happening though given people generally want to be paid money when they do a job.

Heard of taxes? You also don't want roads and fire fighters?

[Kraenen]

So a university offers voluntary courses on microaggressions and the author of the article panics. Looks like he is afraid of differing ideas.

Are you even going to address the fact that you were wrong? This is pretty cheap and evasive even from you.

"People of color" is racist against white people? Are you even trying?

At this point, you've evaded the fact that I was right on affirmative action being considered a micro aggression, which proves safe spaces aren't just about being safe from identity attacks (except of course if you're a straight white male, that's open season). Continuing to insinuate I'm a troll because I call out your racism is almost parody.

Heard of taxes? You also don't want roads and fire fighters?

Wait so it's not free? People have to pay for it?

(Are you really not seeing my point here? You can't be this dull. You're a great reason customer satisfying schools are a bad idea)

[theredviola]

Giving into unreasonable demands is nothing new to the Education system in the US. Parents run rampant with demands for their perceived "special snowflakes," especially when they're accused of misbehavior. If anything, it's the parent's fault, partially, for installing this shit into the students.

[mitbrandir]

If I'm understanding this correctly, these students want to move somewhat away from a system in which you are rewarded for the work they deliver and more towards something which they are being satisfied? That seems really odd. I personally get satisfaction out performing well. Maybe it's because I'm someone who wants to be good at the things I do, including school (my major is accounting). I think it's neccessary to actually understand the subjects you're doing if you're going to work with them later. Quite frankly, I don't think people who don't get any satisfaction at all from being good at what they do really choose the right thing.

[Elba]

Are you even going to address the fact that you were wrong? This is pretty cheap and evasive even from you.

Trying what? At this point, you've evaded the fact that I was right on affirmative action being considered a micro aggression, which proves safe spaces aren't just about being safe from identity attacks (except of course if you're a straight white male, that's open season).

What was I wrong about? You can freely discuss affirmative action. Disagreeing with affirmative action isn't a microaggression. And where are safe spaces mentioned in this instance?

Continuing to insinuate I'm a troll because I call out your racism is almost parody.

You said the term people of color is racist towards white people. So yeah, you are trolling.

Wait so it's not free? People have to pay for it?

(Are you really not seeing my point here? You can't be this dull. Those customer satisfying schools have failed you.)

It would be free for the students, yes. Just like it will be free when fire fighters save your house. Or like going to the doctor is free when you have working universal health care. Everybody pays a little so that when someone needs something really expensive they can get it. I mean, if the few bucks of your taxes that would go to colleges bother you, you can take that up with your country's agency. Personally I would protest about military spending but that is just me.

[Kalis]

It seems Jo is trying to beat Bo as the biggest political liability in the Johnson family.


One thing I can potentially see happening from this, is universities dropping the degrees such as gender studies that typically attract these identity politics advocates. None of them will want to be known as places where the students are happy that you caved into all of their demands, but fail every other ranking category.

A revision of the ranking process could be beneficial, but as it stands it looks like they are making a complete pig's ear of it. Bloody Thatcher Theresa!

[AeneasBK]

Am I completely wrong but for *most* students, isn't the quality of the specific course, rather than the ranking of the university overall, the bigger pull?

Before University of Winchester became that, it was known as King Arthur's College and boasted one of the best Performing Arts courses outside RADA; plenty of its students went on to be very successful actors - similarly it's archaeology course was very well ranked. However I can't imagine it even featured on a university rankings system (not being a proper university and all); that didn't stop people applying for these courses.

(Rather sadly, I understand it gutted its PA department in order to fund the necessary changes required to make it eligable for University Status and since then the quality of that course has deteriorated greatly, or so I have heard. The idea being as a university it would receive far more funding therefore being able to pay for the changes later on).

Of course there will still be the elite who will insist that anything shy of Oxbridge is 'faking it' or w/e and no doubt those places provide amazing courses for its students; but outside of that isn't it the course itself that matters?

Or is this more a case of "The higher your rank the more dollar you get from government and other kickbacks"

[Deleted]

What was I wrong about? You can freely discuss affirmative action. Disagreeing with affirmative action isn't a microaggression. And where are safe spaces mentioned in this instance?



You said the term people of color is racist towards white people. So yeah, you are trolling.



It would be free for the students, yes. Just like it will be free when fire fighters save your house. Or like going to the doctor is free when you have working universal health care. Everybody pays a little so that when someone needs something really expensive they can get it. I mean, if the few bucks of your taxes that would go to colleges bother you, you can take that up with your country's agency. Personally I would protest about military spending but that is just me.

"People of color" seems to be a pretty stupid term after reading up on it. I would be a poc but someone white is not despite me being as pale as white people, if I understood the term correctly.

[Kronik85]

Holy reading comprehension Batman! Like seriously, nobody read this article right before being indignant. The bill doesn't even exist yet, it's in the Lords where it's tremendously unpopular and will be amended or passed back entirely and redrawn.

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A revision of the ranking process could be beneficial, but as it stands it looks like they are making a complete pig's ear of it. Bloody Thatcher Theresa!

Her ideas about education have been worrisome to say the least. I was left scratching my head at "A vote for Brexit is a vote for Grammars!".....ummm u w0t m8?.