Will there be some "catchup emchanic" for rank 3 alch recipes?

[Deleted]

Probably not, just RNG.

[Fabinas]

I'm not, but I'm also not someone whos so entitled that they think everything should be handed to them. There is 0 reason you need the rank 3 recipe, you as an alchemist can still function without having it. I don't have rank three darkmoon card on my scribe and I'm doing just fine on him, life has continued to go on and the world is still spinning. The amount of entitlement that people have in this game is astounding, so what if you don't have it keep playing the game and you'll get it eventually.

There is ONE reason that you need Rank 3 on any crafting recipe (but especially Alchemy). Participate with some success or even compete in the crafting market. Make gold from your professions. The difference from rank 2 to rank 3 is such (for flasks, pots etc), that you cannot craft and sell stuff with a profit unless you have it. It is behind RNG, meaning some lucky people have been making gold since day1 and some other people will spend millions of gold into crafting to learn Rank3 and may never make their invested gold back.

The amount of people crying "entitlement" in this game is absurd. Stop dismissing stuff with such a generic argument, learn what the fuck Blizzard has done in this game with it's rng implementations, then participate in discussions with something to contribute.

EDIT: While not exactly "need", there are some people who are completionists. RNG also fucks them over, as they are prepared to make any sensible effort to complete stuff. RNG femoves the "sensible" part from the sentence above. Wanting to achieve things in game is not entitlement.

[netherflame]

There is ONE reason that you need Rank 3 on any crafting recipe (but especially Alchemy). Participate with some success or even compete in the crafting market. Make gold from your professions. The difference from rank 2 to rank 3 is such (for flasks, pots etc), that you cannot craft and sell stuff with a profit unless you have it. It is behind RNG, meaning some lucky people have been making gold since day1 and some other people will spend millions of gold into crafting to learn Rank3 and may never make their invested gold back.

100% disagree, you can compete fine people acting like those with rank 3 are procing 100 flasks EVERY TIME they complete one craft is absurd.

The amount of people crying "entitlement" in this game is absurd. Stop dismissing stuff with such a generic argument, learn what the fuck Blizzard has done in this game with it's rng implementations, then participate in discussions with something to contribute.

So does that mean that I should say the lottery isn't fair because I haven't won it and gotten all the money? There are zero things in this game that are required to do good, go ask raiders in even the top 1000 of the world. They don't always get the gear they want, they don't go into every boss with the optimal setup, they don't get to have the boss do the best thing with debuffs so certain people are targeted, but one thing they do happen to do is pull up their bootstraps and fucking work through it and improve themselves. There is literally always something players can be doing to improve yet people try to boil it down to "I'd be a 99th percentile player if I had <insert laundry list here>." How about this? Go improve, nothing is holding you back but yourself the sooner you understand that the better off you will be.

EDIT: While not exactly "need", there are some people who are completionists. RNG also fucks them over, as they are prepared to make any sensible effort to complete stuff. RNG femoves the "sensible" part from the sentence above. Wanting to achieve things in game is not entitlement.

Cool completionists, everything won't always go your way buttercup. Nothing is stopping them from achieving things, they can go achieve them. If I want a Ferrari I'm not going to go buy a lottery ticket then complain that I can't have my Ferrari because I didn't win the lottery. I'm going to go work hard to earn my money and buy the damn car.
Lifes tough, grow up.

[Mamut]

100% disagree, you can compete fine people acting like those with rank 3 are procing 100 flasks EVERY TIME they complete one craft is absurd.

If you think you can compete without r3 then you have no idea what you are talking about. Evertytime you make flask/potion with r2 its a money loss, on my server 112 gold lost per flask. Noone is talking about 100 flasks from 1 proc but 15-20 procs are pretty common. For example before I get alchemy I was giving mats to alchemist from my guild with r3. I send mats for 20 flasks, got 47 in return. Look here:



You cant compete with this.

And I wonder why the hell you compare profession in video game that should not be so RNG heavy to a lottery or world first kills or having a ferrari? Really?

[Fabinas]

100% disagree, you can compete fine people acting like those with rank 3 are procing 100 flasks EVERY TIME they complete one craft is absurd.



So does that mean that I should say the lottery isn't fair because I haven't won it and gotten all the money? There are zero things in this game that are required to do good, go ask raiders in even the top 1000 of the world. They don't always get the gear they want, they don't go into every boss with the optimal setup, they don't get to have the boss do the best thing with debuffs so certain people are targeted, but one thing they do happen to do is pull up their bootstraps and fucking work through it and improve themselves. There is literally always something players can be doing to improve yet people try to boil it down to "I'd be a 99th percentile player if I had <insert laundry list here>." How about this? Go improve, nothing is holding you back but yourself the sooner you understand that the better off you will be.



Cool completionists, everything won't always go your way buttercup. Nothing is stopping them from achieving things, they can go achieve them. If I want a Ferrari I'm not going to go buy a lottery ticket then complain that I can't have my Ferrari because I didn't win the lottery. I'm going to go work hard to earn my money and buy the damn car.
Lifes tough, grow up.

You have just been proven wrong about your disagreement concerning the viability of rank2 flask recipes (btw you didn't even bother to show us your server's prices, so, your disagreement was worth a shit, anyway).

Again, cause all you know how to spit in this thread is "entitlement" (a word you probably learned in this forum, anyway). A completionist is prepared to put a sensible, but grand effort to achieve a thing in this game. People have been on 4k kills of Sha and no Heavenly Onyx mount yet. More than 3k boss kills on timewalking dungoens and no mount yet. If these people vent their frustration in a thread about a drop rate, are they "entitled" people? It's the same with flasks. People report 4k flasks crafted and no rank3 proc. To get rank 3 is total luck, with an unknown proc rate. That means the game does favor lucky people and NOT people who put the effort. We don't like that. It is not entitlement when we ask to get rid of the EXTREME RATE RNG in this game and substitute it with sensible but grand effort. I saw NOONE whining about the Insane title, because it is too much effort.

EDIT: If Blizzard just implemented a quest, given by a goblin, to deliver 2000 flasks or pots to learn rank 3 of any given rank 2 recipe, i'd go for it. Either i'd get it in the making or after making that amount. Dunno the proc rate, might as well be the equivalent of 3 or 4k flasks pots etc. They only know. I'D STILL go for it. Does that make me entitled, when i'd be prepared to take the loss of x thousand crafts to learn rank3?

[netherflame]

You have just been proven wrong about your disagreement concerning the viability of rank2 flask recipes (btw you didn't even bother to show us your server's prices, so, your disagreement was worth a shit, anyway).

Again, cause all you know how to spit in this thread is "entitlement" (a word you probably learned in this forum, anyway). A completionist is prepared to put a sensible, but grand effort to achieve a thing in this game. People have been on 4k kills of Sha and no Heavenly Onyx mount yet. More than 3k boss kills on timewalking dungoens and no mount yet. If these people vent their frustration in a thread about a drop rate, are they "entitled" people? It's the same with flasks. People report 4k flasks crafted and no rank3 proc. To get rank 3 is total luck, with an unknown proc rate. That means the game does favor lucky people and NOT people who put the effort. We don't like that. It is not entitlement when we ask to get rid of the EXTREME RATE RNG in this game and substitute it with sensible but grand effort. I saw NOONE whining about the Insane title, because it is too much effort.

EDIT: If Blizzard just implemented a quest, given by a goblin, to deliver 2000 flasks or pots to learn rank 3 of any given rank 2 recipe, i'd go for it. Either i'd get it in the making or after making that amount. Dunno the proc rate, might as well be the equivalent of 3 or 4k flasks pots etc. They only know. I'D STILL go for it. Does that make me entitled, when i'd be prepared to take the loss of x thousand crafts to learn rank3?

Flasks are roughly 600 a piece on my server, so do with that what you will.

There is no such thing as a 'lucky' person everyone has the shame chance to get a drop, back to the argument why do you need the mount? Is it stopping you from doing something in the game? Is there a secret area for people with the timewalking mount? No. That means its not necessary so you might get it you might not, tough shit its not holding you back in the game at all.

[Fabinas]

There must be an IQ problem here or a genuine troll.
My last response to you, since you seem to be unable to discuss stuff. You take the 600g price of your flasks and try to make gold with that price. If you do, come back to disagree again.

In a MMO there's no actual need. There are goals. Goals that either the game gives you or you set yourself. If it's in the game and can be obtained, it's a possible goal. When that goal is utterly difficult to achieve, the reward must be awsome. A Heavenly Onyx Cloud Serpent is one. A rank 3 flask recipe that merely allows you to participate in flask market is not.

If you cannot get that simple thing then... read my first sentence. Done with you.

[Stopsight]

All rank 3 alchemy recipes proc extra stuff, except for the trinket. An alchemist with all rank 3 recipes just prints gold.

Coming from someone who is heavily invested, I would have to disagree that R3s print money, it's definitely not a "get to gold cap quick!" kind of thing



It is well established that procs for everything but the new potion are 1.5x on average (the new potion is less).

There haven't been huge profits on rank 3s for a couple months now. For most flasks on my server you are lucky to profit 40 gold per flask and that is 40g on a sale of 500-600 gold so a margin of less than 10%. I am selling thousands of potions and flasks a week (literally, I sold 4500 potions in the last 7 days according to TSM) and basically account for 50% of sales for an entire high pop world and I only make a couple hundred thousand a week doing that. Imagine your average alchemist, If you have a single rank 3 and not enough gold to reset the market you might go a week without being able to sell at a profit at all thanks to people dumping flasks below cost.

If you think you can compete without r3 then you have no idea what you are talking about. Evertytime you make flask/potion with r2 its a money loss, on my server 112 gold lost per flask. Noone is talking about 100 flasks from 1 proc but 15-20 procs are pretty common. For example before I get alchemy I was giving mats to alchemist from my guild with r3. I send mats for 20 flasks, got 47 in return. Look here:



You cant compete with this.

And I wonder why the hell you compare profession in video game that should not be so RNG heavy to a lottery or world first kills or having a ferrari? Really?

As i mentioned above the proc rate is 1.5x so your screenshot is a bit disingenuous. 1.5x is still is a big deal and obviously rank 2s aren't even close to profitable most of the time now, but I don't see that as a problem. Sure there is some luck involved, but as you can see above I have been able to get every single relevant rank 3, it can be done you just have to invest money. I started Legion on a fresh server with only a boosted character and a new Demon hunter. Like everything else in the game it is a mix of luck and persistence.

[iky43210]

servers that can still make huge profits from rank 3 recipes are from those small-med pop servers without huge botting problems. All the med-high and high pop servers are already making meager profits with rank 3

If you add any "catchup" mechanics to rank 3 alchemist, nobody is going to be making any gold soon from that profession.

[Mamut]

There haven't been huge profits on rank 3s for a couple months now. For most flasks on my server you are lucky to profit 40 gold per flask and that is 40g on a sale of 500-600 gold so a margin of less than 10%. I am selling thousands of potions and flasks a week (literally, I sold 4500 potions in the last 7 days according to TSM) and basically account for 50% of sales for an entire high pop world and I only make a couple hundred thousand a week doing that. Imagine your average alchemist, If you have a single rank 3 and not enough gold to reset the market you might go a week without being able to sell at a profit at all thanks to people dumping flasks below cost.




As i mentioned above the proc rate is 1.5x so your screenshot is a bit disingenuous. 1.5x is still is a big deal and obviously rank 2s aren't even close to profitable most of the time now, but I don't see that as a problem. Sure there is some luck involved, but as you can see above I have been able to get every single relevant rank 3, it can be done you just have to invest money. I started Legion on a fresh server with only a boosted character and a new Demon hunter. Like everything else in the game it is a mix of luck and persistence.

Yes, the avreage result is around 1,5. "Some" luck involved when I made already over 1000 old war potions and still no r3? Thats just ridiculous. You say the profit is not much and is around 40g. I see big difference between 40g profit and 100-200g loss per one flask/potion.

[Fabinas]

At any rate, if you don't have rank 3 you CANNOT participate in the market, as proven by your "meager" (?) profits, @Stopsight.

You mention "luck" and "persistence". I want to see your numbers. The number of flasks and pots you crafted to achieve rank 3 on all those recipes. You might not have them, understandable. But labeling your actual numbers as "luck and persistance" isn't helping anyone getting the same profession tab as you. Because your case might have been only luck. We know persistance will yield the rank 3's. What worries people is the cost. Someone getting rank 3 on 100 flasks is winning the WoW (by getting it earlier and with lesser cost), while one getting it at 3000+ flasks loses (profits and time to compete with the previous guy).

On other servers, though, where profits might be higher, the delta of rank2 and rank 3 difference is bigger.

- - - Updated - - -

servers that can still make huge profits from rank 3 recipes are from those small-med pop servers without huge botting problems. All the med-high and high pop servers are already making meager profits with rank 3

If you add any "catchup" mechanics to rank 3 alchemist, nobody is going to be making any gold soon from that profession.

If you think it is fair some people who won the RNG lottery making profits for months, while the rest of unlucky plebs being excluded from the market, kk.

[netherflame]

servers that can still make huge profits from rank 3 recipes are from those small-med pop servers without huge botting problems. All the med-high and high pop servers are already making meager profits with rank 3

If you add any "catchup" mechanics to rank 3 alchemist, nobody is going to be making any gold soon from that profession.

I mean the secret is that your supplier should be the bots. No shame here, during BC and LK I goldcapped my account from buying materials from the bots and super low prices, often 75% of the AH cost, and turning them into produced goods like gems and flasks/potions. Ethical? Eh thats up for debate, but every day I woke up to a mailbox full of ore and herbs which i paid the CoD on and turned into a finished product. The key here is you create that relationship so that you can make the most money with the minimum effort. I didn't have to farm anything, I just had some startup gold and turned that into an empire on my server. There was one point where there were three of us reliably making gold from the JC market, I remember making over 100k a week for quite a long time which got my lots of nice things from TCG as well as that gold cap which propelled me to things like the spider mount.

The key with anyone looking to make money in an economy is consistent expectations of cost and production, you never look at what you will make if you get procs, you look at what do I need to do at minimum to make a profit. Then anything above that is just gravy, this also factors in that you will probably put in a fair bit more at the start to obtain the ability to make those profits later on.

To clarify, by account I mean all the characters slots on my server had characters with max gold.

[Myzou]

If you don't have rank 3 of Potion of Prolonged Power, it's your fault, not Blizzard's. The boss that drops it has spawned already both in US and EU.

Also, most ppl have used the Darkmoon Faire to their advantage, concerning skill 800 on professions.

I have r3 prolonged power recipe on all 3 of my alchemists.

But I can't learn them because I need revered with the Nightfallen to get rank 2.

I'm not rep grinding on an alt just for professions.

The fact Alchemy is tied behind RNG discovery or Nightfallen Revered + A world boss is ridiculous.

[Teri]

Many 3-star recipes have had their drop rates increased. - 7.1.5 Patch notes.

That better include alchemy procs /herbalism/mining and cooking too

[iky43210]

At any rate, if you don't have rank 3 you CANNOT participate in the market, as proven by your "meager" (?) profits, @Stopsight.

You mention "luck" and "persistence". I want to see your numbers. The number of flasks and pots you crafted to achieve rank 3 on all those recipes. You might not have them, understandable. But labeling your actual numbers as "luck and persistance" isn't helping anyone getting the same profession tab as you. Because your case might have been only luck. We know persistance will yield the rank 3's. What worries people is the cost. Someone getting rank 3 on 100 flasks is winning the WoW (by getting it earlier and with lesser cost), while one getting it at 3000+ flasks loses (profits and time to compete with the previous guy).

On other servers, though, where profits might be higher, the delta of rank2 and rank 3 difference is bigger.

- - - Updated - - -



If you think it is fair some people who won the RNG lottery making profits for months, while the rest of unlucky plebs being excluded from the market, kk.

This game is based on rng. Some people making profit is better than nobody making profit. Do you also hold grudge against people that finds boe epics constantly?

It's not like I got "lucky" with my procs either. I used nearly a million just to uncover rank 3 recipe (abeit revenue, actual loss would be lost), it would be extremely unfair for someone to just get it without how much I've invested.

[Fabinas]

This game is based on rng. Some people making profit is better than nobody making profit. Do you also hold grudge against people that finds boe epics constantly?

It's not like I got "lucky" with my procs either. I used nearly a million just to uncover rank 3 recipe (abeit revenue, actual loss would be lost), it would be extremely unfair for someone to just get it without how much I've invested.

Someone has got it without investing that much. You just don't know it. And RNG wasn't so prominent in all the previous expansions. As usual, they went from one extreme (easy to get on alt professions) to the other (tough, close to impossible to complete your main's professions). That's the problem.

- - - Updated - - -

If Blizzard just implemented a quest, given by a goblin, to deliver 2000 flasks or pots to learn rank 3 of any given rank 2 recipe, i'd go for it. Either i'd get it in the making or after making that amount. Dunno the proc rate, might as well be the equivalent of 3 or 4k flasks pots etc. They only know. I'D STILL go for it. Does that make me entitled, when i'd be prepared to take the loss of x thousand crafts to learn rank3?

Sorry for quoting myself, but that's what i previously suggested (they could adjust the numbers to the actual proc rate) and that would at least make the field a bit even for everyone. Not Free, not RNG dependent.

[KaPe]

Many 3-star recipes have had their drop rates increased. - 7.1.5 Patch notes.

That better include alchemy procs /herbalism/mining and cooking too

I can see it working for herbalism and mining, since they are actual drops, but with alchemy... I *hope* it does, but I really wouldn't put it past Blizzard to leave it as it is. After all, it's more "involving" and "exciting" when you get new ranks by actually working with your profession. Especially when you burn through thousand of flasks and get nothing, while someone else gets all four in few dozen crafts.

Someone has got it without investing that much. You just don't know it.

Worse - I do know it. Sure it was a guildie and sure I congratulated him at first... but it got *really* annoying when he got two more flasks R3, within next 50 crafts or so. It's hard not to feel cheated by the rng in such situation. It's even worse when something so profitable (well, not anymore) is so random, because those ingame profits can actually be turned into tokens, thus saving real life money.

And even ignoring that, it's still a horrible system. Since the Blood of Sargeras vendor, I crafted a ton of flasks, wasting a lot of gold. Still nothing. I guess I'm on the extreme end of unlucky and it's really annoying, killing any enjoyment from this reworked profession system.

[Stopsight]

I mean the secret is that your supplier should be the bots. No shame here, during BC and LK I goldcapped my account from buying materials from the bots and super low prices, often 75% of the AH cost, and turning them into produced goods like gems and flasks/potions. Ethical? Eh thats up for debate, but every day I woke up to a mailbox full of ore and herbs which i paid the CoD on and turned into a finished product. The key here is you create that relationship so that you can make the most money with the minimum effort. I didn't have to farm anything, I just had some startup gold and turned that into an empire on my server. There was one point where there were three of us reliably making gold from the JC market, I remember making over 100k a week for quite a long time which got my lots of nice things from TCG as well as that gold cap which propelled me to things like the spider mount.

The key with anyone looking to make money in an economy is consistent expectations of cost and production, you never look at what you will make if you get procs, you look at what do I need to do at minimum to make a profit. Then anything above that is just gravy, this also factors in that you will probably put in a fair bit more at the start to obtain the ability to make those profits later on.

To clarify, by account I mean all the characters slots on my server had characters with max gold.

Buying bulk through mail or trading from bots/RWTs is a great way to get banned, to all looking into doing this. You also won't get anything refunded by Blizz if they decide to wipe out goods that were obtained through duping or other means against the ToS. If you buy through the AH they won't do anything to you.

At any rate, if you don't have rank 3 you CANNOT participate in the market, as proven by your "meager" (?) profits, @Stopsight.

You mention "luck" and "persistence". I want to see your numbers. The number of flasks and pots you crafted to achieve rank 3 on all those recipes. You might not have them, understandable. But labeling your actual numbers as "luck and persistance" isn't helping anyone getting the same profession tab as you. Because your case might have been only luck. We know persistance will yield the rank 3's. What worries people is the cost. Someone getting rank 3 on 100 flasks is winning the WoW (by getting it earlier and with lesser cost), while one getting it at 3000+ flasks loses (profits and time to compete with the previous guy).

On other servers, though, where profits might be higher, the delta of rank2 and rank 3 difference is bigger.

- - - Updated - - -



If you think it is fair some people who won the RNG lottery making profits for months, while the rest of unlucky plebs being excluded from the market, kk.

I didn't keep track of exact numbers, I would estimate an average of 200-300 crafts per, although there was a huge standard deviation. Flask of Countless Armies and Leytorrent potion both took well over 500 crafts for me, while old war and deadly grace were both within 100 crafts. I've been reinvesting profits for months in order to afford all rank 3s.

There's a lot less luck involved in making money with Alchemy than there is in getting a titanforged Six feather fan or something

[netherflame]

Buying bulk through mail or trading from bots/RWTs is a great way to get banned, to all looking into doing this. You also won't get anything refunded by Blizz if they decide to wipe out goods that were obtained through duping or other means against the ToS. If you buy through the AH they won't do anything to you.

They won't ban someone who didn't know the shady things were going on, as far as I know those were obtained legally.

[PaladinBash]

Nah I don't think rank 3 flasks should be given out like candy. You gotta earn them. I've made a killing off those things because so many people don't have it because they're too lazy to grind it.