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  1. #201
    The only things I could say were better:
    1)difficulty---You couldn't just ROFL-stomp into a zone and pull 10+ mobs and come out the other end laughing. A lot of classes barely survived 1v1 combat.
    2)Community-- I rarely solo did any quests, true there were times I was alone but I remember plenty of times people constantly grouping up for quests. Even if someone joined that was a stage or 2 behind you in the quest chain people would go back and help them kill that stuff to get to their stage of the quest.
    3)Communication-- even if you were questing alone there was usually a decent chunk of good communication going on in the zones you were in. Anything from people asking questions about where something was and people actually responding with the answer rather than putting the person down.
    4)Professions-- the community felt connected because a good chunk of professions needed mats that other ones made. I remember making a plate chest piece but needing rivets crafted by a engineer, bolts of cloth from a tailor and a leather top to mix with it all needed to make one piece. Also on that note, unless you were a big raider crafting gear had a lot of the best in slot pieces or at least best while you were leveling. And because leveling took longer and you rarely got great gear, the economy flowed as people were buying gear to help them level from 35-40 or buying the Imperial Plate set from 40-44 as most of that was useful till your early 50s.
    5)More community stuff... there were always trolls but they were nowhere near as bad as they are now. People would get blacklisted or not even invited to guild because the news would spread that they were pricks in a dungeon or in a zone, or chat, guild, etc. It wouldn't just be a 1 and done that they were screwed but once multiple people started giving examples and others backed them up, then they really got on peoples blacklist. It forced people to at least be tolerable of others instead of the crap we get most of the time today.

    There's plenty more but that's good enough.. all that being said though, I prefer a lot of the game as it is now. Old talent trees sucked regardless of what people say... yes you could make your character anyway you really wanted to but to be viable in dungeons and raids there was still the cookie cutter builds, there were just a lot more of them. That was just a example of stuff that was bad, there was plenty of others but all that was asked is what made it better.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    Absolutely. Constant danger.

    Whenever you were actually playing and questing (not idling on the capital cities inspecting other players or alt tabbing), you had to be careful, or you would easily die.

    Of course you 'wouldn't' if you paid attention... or maintained focus on what you were doing, but if you didn't, you were penalized for it, in comparison to today's WoW where you can actually leave your character afk whilst getting attacked by mobs, or handle 10 mobs at a time with aoe.

    Don't pretend it was a cakewalk, it wasn't. Of course good play or awareness was rewarded, but it was very easy to die... often, on regular mobs, no point even going into the group questing stuff, like lakeshire elite orcs or hinterland trolls.

    Hell, some of the deadliest mobs on WoW (according to their infographs) were Defias Mages on Duskwood and freaking lvl 3-5 kobolds in elwynn's mines. Those had such a quick respawn rate and would just swarm the shit out of you.

    So yea, even if the penalties were 'non-existent', you died a lot.
    Maybe you died a lot. I didn't. I afked on roads where mobs didn't patrol if I had to afk. I stunned/interrupted casters after i learned they were doing absurd damage compared to their melee counterparts. I came from a harder game. If I had a mob that was low health and he ran off feared I snared him or focused him first. On my first character that I leveled I was a hunter and I learned how to solo elite mobs if I really had to do it.

    That isn't to say my experiences in Vanilla WoW were typical. I saw people getting murdered by casters and mobs running rampant with fear and pulling adds.

  3. #203
    It was a lot worse but was pretty refreshing since it was new.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaap View Post
    1. The experience. It was new.
    2. The community.

    Gameplay wise classic WoW wasn't that great. That's not was nostalrius fanboys will want to admit though.
    Being new is not that valid of an argument, especially when people still enjoy classic WoW, all these years later. Also it isn't up to you to decide what is fun for other people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Ah come on Granyala, there's several possible reasons for it. A few that would get us banned here like pointing out a deficite in his mental capacity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oktoberfest View Post
    Man I swear, every time someone uses the term 'Critical Thinking' I want to pop em in the mouth.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMonk79 View Post
    The only things I could say were better:
    1)difficulty---You couldn't just ROFL-stomp into a zone and pull 10+ mobs and come out the other end laughing. A lot of classes barely survived 1v1 combat.
    2)Community-- I rarely solo did any quests, true there were times I was alone but I remember plenty of times people constantly grouping up for quests. Even if someone joined that was a stage or 2 behind you in the quest chain people would go back and help them kill that stuff to get to their stage of the quest.
    3)Communication-- even if you were questing alone there was usually a decent chunk of good communication going on in the zones you were in. Anything from people asking questions about where something was and people actually responding with the answer rather than putting the person down.
    4)Professions-- the community felt connected because a good chunk of professions needed mats that other ones made. I remember making a plate chest piece but needing rivets crafted by a engineer, bolts of cloth from a tailor and a leather top to mix with it all needed to make one piece. Also on that note, unless you were a big raider crafting gear had a lot of the best in slot pieces or at least best while you were leveling. And because leveling took longer and you rarely got great gear, the economy flowed as people were buying gear to help them level from 35-40 or buying the Imperial Plate set from 40-44 as most of that was useful till your early 50s.
    5)More community stuff... there were always trolls but they were nowhere near as bad as they are now. People would get blacklisted or not even invited to guild because the news would spread that they were pricks in a dungeon or in a zone, or chat, guild, etc. It wouldn't just be a 1 and done that they were screwed but once multiple people started giving examples and others backed them up, then they really got on peoples blacklist. It forced people to at least be tolerable of others instead of the crap we get most of the time today.

    There's plenty more but that's good enough.. all that being said though, I prefer a lot of the game as it is now. Old talent trees sucked regardless of what people say... yes you could make your character anyway you really wanted to but to be viable in dungeons and raids there was still the cookie cutter builds, there were just a lot more of them. That was just a example of stuff that was bad, there was plenty of others but all that was asked is what made it better.
    Yes the game was good for its time, but it seems that the period of people having lots of time to play the game has long passed..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bapestar View Post
    Being new is not that valid of an argument, especially when people still enjoy classic WoW, all these years later. Also it isn't up to you to decide what is fun for other people.
    Thing being is of those people playing on those servers, how many are actually players who played WoW back in in 2004? Or are they just totally new players who never truly experienced WoW all those years ago.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    Aggro management was a thing because a lucky crit would make you the tank. Ever see the famous video of the guy that says "DPS VERY VERY SLOWLY"? That's to prevent someone from pulling aggro off the tank.



    If you ran out of mana as a Hunter, that means that you didn't manage your mana.

    Epics were given to players to make them happy, but then other players now go by ilevel which is making people angry again. The color system was meant to make it easy for people understand that this person is a bad ass, but now we go by ilevel. Colors don't even matter anymore.
    K mate. You're forgetting Hunters had literally 0 mana management other than FD and drinking, I wanna stop discussing there since you either A) never played vanila B) never raided vanila, but sure I'll play along. You know why they said dps very very slowly? Cause it wasn't about skill it was about time, 5 sunders....repeat sunder armor, maybe a thunderclap here and there, pump up a heroic strike every now and then. It wasn't a difficulty thing, it was retarded, the game literally wanted you to stay still so the tank can press one of his abilities a few more times, thats not management thats retarded.

    That system was always in place, you weren't doing dungeons with some freshly pleberino 60, you were gonna rock out with your fully epic geared friends. Same translates into todays ilvl, its just no longer a color but a number.

    Don't get me started about "awarding epics", the mechanics were so simple it just blew my mind how some people couldn't figure out Thaddius for example, that was the wall my guild hit, cause you know + goes left - goes right is hard to grasp. The magnitude of the raids was the challenging part, organizing 40 people is a feat in every task, even picking apples can be tasking if 15 of your workers don't know how to climb a ladder, epics weren't awarded it was a torture at times more than 20 people fighting for a token you so desperately need, such award, you were present on all raids so you have DKP to waste on an item. You are entitled to an opinion but its time to shut down those rose tinted glasses you're sporting

  7. #207
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    Maybe you died a lot. I didn't. I afked on roads where mobs didn't patrol if I had to afk. I stunned/interrupted casters after i learned they were doing absurd damage compared to their melee counterparts. I came from a harder game. If I had a mob that was low health and he ran off feared I snared him or focused him first. On my first character that I leveled I was a hunter and I learned how to solo elite mobs if I really had to do it.

    That isn't to say my experiences in Vanilla WoW were typical. I saw people getting murdered by casters and mobs running rampant with fear and pulling adds.
    Hunters were the easiest class to level with by quite a margin, but yes the were much, much harder games out there like Myth of Soma.

  8. #208
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    Gee it is almost like people are trying to remember things from 12 years ago or something.
    And yet everyone who doesn't share your totally distorted memories is a bad player. Sorry man I have no respect left for you.

    Have a good night.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kaap View Post
    Gameplay wise classic WoW wasn't that great. That's not was nostalrius fanboys will want to admit though.
    Now that's a grown-up way to discuss something, right? Everyone who disagrees with me is a fanboy and wrong. The fact that there are huge communities who no only remember but actually enjoy classic WoW gets straight up ignored.
    "I do not share your passion so your passion is wrong."

    Quote Originally Posted by Doomchicken View Post
    Pirate servers aren't proof of anything since they aren't using blizzards code and thus aren't using the same HP or damage that original vanilla would of. The larger server that got shut down mentioned they watched old videos to roughly do hp or damage. So these pirate servers are likely way out of whack to actual reality.
    Sure thing bud. Everything is wrong, you are right, you cannot be proven wrong.

    I've been a gamer for 20 years, when WoW launched was about the most hardcore gaming time for me EVER. I have played and leveled several chars during classic's lifespan (and beta). And I have very fond memories of mobs being absolutely unrelenting and deadly on every char that I have leveled with the exception of my Hunter (pet tanking + feign death made that one a cakewalk).

    So I say vanilla WoW had a dangerous world. Then 2 very nice people come and tell me that I am straight out wrong and there was no danger in the world at all. So I proof them wrong and suddenly this http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post44096476
    This is his reply to me proving his assertion wrong that the world was not dangerous.
    It's like he has completely forgotten what started the discussion in the first place, because he just replies "geez yea warriors may have had a hard time but I didn't list warriors did I?". Well so what? Doesn't change the fact that the world was VERY dangerous for warriors and still pretty dangerous for a selected few classes who had a little less issues with warriors.

    The world WAS dangerous and as hulkgor has pointed out here (http://www.mmo-champion.com/showthre...7#post44096357) and as even the nice guys who have asserted that the world wasn't dangerous said you had to concentrate to avoid death. If you tabbed out and a pat walked by you were dead. That is by definition a dangerous world.

    Not even comparable to nowadays WoW where you can quite literally put in a jerk off session in the middle of nowhere and tab back into the game with your char alive and well with 5 mobs wailing on him/her.


    How can people be so absurdly dishonest? Even if that guy was TRULY right (which he isn't) in that he could easily level in classic without dying and that only bad players die that still makes classic wow a million times more dangerous than todays wow, where not even the worst players in the world can die.



    And even if it WAS true that (blizzlike)private servers have different health/dmg values than the original realms... what kind of difference are we talking about here? Are you honestly suggesting that the current [blizzlike]private servers are severely overtuned in terms of difficulty? Because I'm afraid that's BS. If that were the case there'd be a huge outcry by the players who want an experience as close as possible to the original.

    It's not like the vanilla numbers left a lot of room for mistuning. People weren't hitting for 3,435,200 damage. They were hitting for 30 damage.
    There's not much room to keep some sort of sensible scaling in enemy health and your own damage within the limitations set by things that are 100% known (aka the stats on items, raid boss health, ...) and at the same time create an experience that is no longer representative for how classic played.
    So there may be SLIGHT differences between private server numbers (damage and health) and the original ones ... MAY. But suggesting that due to these tiny differences I cannot use videos from those servers to prove that mobs hit hard and leveling was dangerous is ... not the smartest thing I have read today.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    I afked on roads where mobs didn't patrol if I had to afk.
    So you made sure you went to specific safe places to AFK but at the same time deny the statement that the world was dangerous? Are you even trying to follow your own line of arguments or just randomly posting words?
    Last edited by mmoccdde410f5d; 2017-01-09 at 06:08 AM.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by spaceape View Post
    Hunters were the easiest class to level with by quite a margin, but yes the were much, much harder games out there like Myth of Soma.
    Pretty much, hunters were easy mode. Though there was no real way of knowing that when the game first started as a lot of us just guessed at a class we thought would be fun and went from there.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    Thing being is of those people playing on those servers, how many are actually players who played WoW back in in 2004? Or are they just totally new players who never truly experienced WoW all those years ago.
    The majority are most likely veteran players. Even if new players prefer vanilla over retail, you just can't say its only because its new.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Ah come on Granyala, there's several possible reasons for it. A few that would get us banned here like pointing out a deficite in his mental capacity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oktoberfest View Post
    Man I swear, every time someone uses the term 'Critical Thinking' I want to pop em in the mouth.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by throwaway-o View Post
    And yet everyone who doesn't share your totally distorted memories is a bad player. Sorry man I have no respect left for you.

    Have a good night.
    Let's see, I played 12 years ago and I know what I could and couldn't solo from the classes I played. As someone said earlier I'm not quite sure YOU played 12 years ago.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by PewPewArrowz View Post
    K mate. You're forgetting Hunters had literally 0 mana management other than FD and drinking, I wanna stop discussing there since you either A) never played vanila B) never raided vanila, but sure I'll play along. You know why they said dps very very slowly? Cause it wasn't about skill it was about time, 5 sunders....repeat sunder armor, maybe a thunderclap here and there, pump up a heroic strike every now and then. It wasn't a difficulty thing, it was retarded, the game literally wanted you to stay still so the tank can press one of his abilities a few more times, thats not management thats retarded.

    That system was always in place, you weren't doing dungeons with some freshly pleberino 60, you were gonna rock out with your fully epic geared friends. Same translates into todays ilvl, its just no longer a color but a number.

    Don't get me started about "awarding epics", the mechanics were so simple it just blew my mind how some people couldn't figure out Thaddius for example, that was the wall my guild hit, cause you know + goes left - goes right is hard to grasp. The magnitude of the raids was the challenging part, organizing 40 people is a feat in every task, even picking apples can be tasking if 15 of your workers don't know how to climb a ladder, epics weren't awarded it was a torture at times more than 20 people fighting for a token you so desperately need, such award, you were present on all raids so you have DKP to waste on an item. You are entitled to an opinion but its time to shut down those rose tinted glasses you're sporting
    Don't forget a lot of these people's Vanilla 'experience' comes from 1.12 only where it isn't even like Vanilla truly was back in the day. It is guesstimated numbers on an emulator.

  13. #213
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    One question then when did you first start playing WoW? Was it back in 2004 when it was released or did you come in later? Or have you actually never played WoW, or is your only foray into the game come from private servers?

    And well you post on these forums expect other people to reply if you can't hack that well that is your problem..
    I played the european Beta and started playing the live game on the day of it's release in europe.
    https://snag.gy/XHvEfJ.jpg

    The fact that you even ask this, trying to somehow disprove my arguments by suggesting that I didn't even play then, is a confession of failure.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by throwaway-o View Post
    So you made sure you went to specific safe places to AFK but at the same time deny the statement that the world was dangerous? Are you even trying to follow your own line of arguments or just randomly posting words?
    Are you saying you can't die in Legion if you just randomly afk in a spot where mobs are. Oh you mean you need to afk in a safe spot. Gotcha. You say Vanilla is dangerous but then also claim there was no danger in any part of WoW BUT Vanilla? Get over yourself, please.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    Don't forget a lot of these people's Vanilla 'experience' comes from 1.12 only where it isn't even like Vanilla truly was back in the day. It is guesstimated numbers on an emulator.
    10/10 Would support again. They are grasping for a feeling of something that I agree was epic, but in a different sense, it was new and thats why it was exciting, blatantly asking for it again when the game evolved into something greater is just beyond retarded. There is literally not a single thing I would want back from Vanila, not a single damn thing.

  16. #216
    Nothing, really.

    Mayabe the scale of the world though. Zones actually felt large.
    Todays outdoor zones are so filled with stuff that it feels more like downtown manhattan, walking through Highmountain.

    Todays WoW is better in most ways however.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by PewPewArrowz View Post
    10/10 Would support again. They are grasping for a feeling of something that I agree was epic, but in a different sense, it was new and thats why it was exciting, blatantly asking for it again when the game evolved into something greater is just beyond retarded. There is literally not a single thing I would want back from Vanila, not a single damn thing.
    I mean some of them are players from 12 years ago that want to play Vanilla again. I mean I think they are nutters but if they want to torture themselves to death with boringly slow gameplay then to each their own.

    But some of the people that get into what happened in Vanilla arguments never actually played Vanilla and try to use their experiences on an emulator as factual things on how the game was 12 years ago. And the second problem with that is that they try to refer to these experiences that happened on said emulators and that isn't allowed in these forums. That is why this thread is basically doomed like the other ones.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by PewPewArrowz View Post
    10/10 Would support again. They are grasping for a feeling of something that I agree was epic, but in a different sense, it was new and thats why it was exciting, blatantly asking for it again when the game evolved into something greater is just beyond retarded. There is literally not a single thing I would want back from Vanila, not a single damn thing.
    So why are people still playing it???
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Ah come on Granyala, there's several possible reasons for it. A few that would get us banned here like pointing out a deficite in his mental capacity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oktoberfest View Post
    Man I swear, every time someone uses the term 'Critical Thinking' I want to pop em in the mouth.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by PewPewArrowz View Post
    K mate. You're forgetting Hunters had literally 0 mana management other than FD and drinking,
    So did Paladins. If you ran out of mana then that means you spent mana on expensive abilities. Like as a Ret Paladin I could limit myself to Seal of Command Rank 1 which still did good damage except for Judement. But if you're low on mana then you aren't Judging anyway. As a healer it's required to use less powerful but mana efficient lower rank heals. That's mana management. Generally if you ran out of mana that means you or the raid screwed up at some point.
    I wanna stop discussing there since you either A) never played vanila B) never raided vanila, but sure I'll play along.
    Why is it that people who never played vanilla will accuse others of not playing Vanilla? Is this a thing now?
    You know why they said dps very very slowly? Cause it wasn't about skill it was about time, 5 sunders....repeat sunder armor,
    Two sunders if you watched the video.

    That system was always in place, you weren't doing dungeons with some freshly pleberino 60, you were gonna rock out with your fully epic geared friends. Same translates into todays ilvl, its just no longer a color but a number.
    Unless you ran players for a lava run to get them attuned.
    epics weren't awarded it was a torture at times more than 20 people fighting for a token you so desperately need
    There were no tokens back then.


    You are entitled to an opinion but its time to shut down those rose tinted glasses you're sporting
    Whatever sure. Have fun with your raging insanity.

  20. #220
    what most people remember about vanilla, or BC, or wrath or whenever they started playing isn't the game experience itself; the game today is unarguably better in just about every way, from class mechanics to fight design to art quality

    what people remember is the joy of discovery: the experience of hitting max level the first time, getting an epic weapon, killing an end-raid-boss the first time, etc. People who've been playing long enough to legitimately remember vanilla are by now well familiar with all the game's systems and rewards, so very little gives you that 'whoa, awesome' feeling. Blizzard can't really re-create that feeling of doing something awesome for the first time from expansion to expansion, no matter how good a job they do.

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