[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[snackfeat]

Could you imagine how shit it would be if they hadn't nerfed Liadrin's ring and we actually used Fires of Justice? The overcap would be unreal!

Depending on your gear(cloak) you are already using fires of justice.

[Eon Drache]

Depending on your gear(cloak) you are already using fires of justice.

I'll assume without the cloak you use Fires of Justice?

[snackfeat]

I'll assume without the cloak you use Fires of Justice?

I believe Zeal is better without the cloak, but I haven't checked lately cause I'm using the cloak.

[Eon Drache]

I believe Zeal is better without the cloak, but I haven't checked lately cause I'm using the cloak.

Zeal with the cloak and Liadrin's ring has been best for me for a while (Simcraft). I can see fires of justice being better without the ring to make sure you chain during Crusade and such?

[snackfeat]

Zeal with the cloak and Liadrin's ring has been best for me for a while (Simcraft). I can see fires of justice being better without the ring to make sure you chain during Crusade and such?

Fires of justice sims higher than Zeal for me even with cloak+ring, but without the ring even more so.

[Eon Drache]

Fires of justice sims higher than Zeal for me even with cloak+ring, but without the ring even more so.

Maybe it's our haste difference? I've maintained over 22% haste for a while now. And Zeal has simmed higher for me since I started raiding. Idk.

[snackfeat]

Maybe it's our haste difference? I've maintained over 22% haste for a while now. And Zeal has simmed higher for me since I started raiding. Idk.

I'm sitting at 22.02% haste atm.

[OrcsRLame]

At 20% haste TFoJ sims higher for me, but only by like 5k. Low enough difference that if there's anything to cleave Zeal is the obvious choice.

[dnicks17]

Fires of justice sims higher than Zeal for me even with cloak+ring, but without the ring even more so.

Yeah. The ring is what will push most people to Zeal.

I'm curious if that will change after the patch.

[TITAN308]

I choose FoJ over Zeal simply for the fact it makes my rotation feel less clunky.

I'm sure I could squeeze a few more percentage points out of going Zeal, but to me the expense of smoother game play is not worth it.

They already ruined BoW and turned it into an RNG skill, so FoJ helps fill in the gaps for me.

[Wrecktangle]

I only have 14% haste so Zeal is almost always less damage (ring, no cape). I also like TFoJ so I have more buttons to press (well, just CS....).

[Calimon-ZJ]

If you have the cloak, i think fires is better for both cleave and single target. You can DS more, and more often during your 25% increase window because of hopo discount chance.

[OrcsRLame]

I choose FoJ over Zeal simply for the fact it makes my rotation feel less clunky.

I'm sure I could squeeze a few more percentage points out of going Zeal, but to me the expense of smoother game play is not worth it.

They already ruined BoW and turned it into an RNG skill, so FoJ helps fill in the gaps for me.

Another thing about Zeal/BoW, is that I think it has the highest potential for parsing. Like, if you get chain BoW procs during Crusade, Zeal is going to yield more damage than TFoJ because you don't need to use as much filler so the reduced cooldown aspect of TFoJ loses value.

[Ryuji]

I choose FoJ over Zeal simply for the fact it makes my rotation feel less clunky.

I'm sure I could squeeze a few more percentage points out of going Zeal, but to me the expense of smoother game play is not worth it.

They already ruined BoW and turned it into an RNG skill, so FoJ helps fill in the gaps for me.

I use FoJ over Zeal also cause it just feels weird even during high haste times of Crusade where I'm sitting there waiting for the occasional Zeal to pop up so I sit on my hands for a bit.

I only have 14% haste so Zeal is almost always less damage (ring, no cape). I also like TFoJ so I have more buttons to press (well, just CS....).

Having low haste feels so weird for me. It's like a night and day difference on my fury warrior alt when I'm pushing for as much haste as possible. Feels way more fluid. I know Blizz wants some downtime for most classes/specs but eh, never feels nice imo.

Kinda wish we pushed for a little bit more haste % instead of that 20-22% mark.

[Yhcti]

Sup guys, I've posted a few times about my debating but here we go. So with the 7.1.5 catch up, I can get my Ret to AK20 which is awesome as I can get all his traits unlocked very quickly, then obviously unlock Prot (gotta have a tank spec!)

My only issue is, I play Havoc/Vengeance and Frost/Blood at the moment and mostly do Mythic+, World Content and PvP... Is going Ret going to feel a bit "meh" or is it very competitive in those areas? I know they have sick ST, but how is the AoE in M+? World Content I assume I'll be fine as I have a ton of defensives... and PvP again I think we're ok?

[Deleted]

Sup guys, I've posted a few times about my debating but here we go. So with the 7.1.5 catch up, I can get my Ret to AK20 which is awesome as I can get all his traits unlocked very quickly, then obviously unlock Prot (gotta have a tank spec!)

My only issue is, I play Havoc/Vengeance and Frost/Blood at the moment and mostly do Mythic+, World Content and PvP... Is going Ret going to feel a bit "meh" or is it very competitive in those areas? I know they have sick ST, but how is the AoE in M+? World Content I assume I'll be fine as I have a ton of defensives... and PvP again I think we're ok?

Yhcti,

Welcome to the forums. before i answer your questions, feel.free to read a few pages in this thread/forum. alot has already been answered regarding the viability of rets.

that being said, i feel rets are very viable in m+. most of our dps is determined by the following factors;

-traits
-legendaries (cloak/belt)
-overall gear/ilvl

traits because there's a significant increase in aoe after those traits have been picked up.

legendaries, specifically those 2 because they increase damage during crusade (cloak outside of aswell) significantly and it's our main source for tons of damage (quotelist: phreak)

otherwise, despite what others say, i thoroughly enjoy the specc and it'll keep me for the rest of the expansion.

on a sidenote, people's opinion about rets is fairly negative. and without the proper ilvl. you might have difficulties getting into m+ groups. therefore i suggest joining friends or a guild to satisfy your needs on that matter.

hope i've given you some insight on how to proceed. stay strong wingman!

sincerely,

Phréak (The Sha'tar)

[Deleted]

I use FoJ over Zeal also cause it just feels weird even during high haste times of Crusade where I'm sitting there waiting for the occasional Zeal to pop up so I sit on my hands for a bit.

Kinda wish we pushed for a little bit more haste % instead of that 20-22% mark.

I sit at 31,6% haste at the moment and Zeal and TFoJ are just 200 DPS apart according to simcraft with TFoJ pulling ahead. BoW is mandatory since VB is a DPS loss by 2,5k DPS @25% haste and 7,3%vers. The gap between both talents will get smaller the higher your haste becomes.

But looking at nighthold you will see haste at around 25-26% haste once you are fully nighthold HC geared. so your wish will come true but not as much as we would like.

- - - Updated - - -

Sup guys, I've posted a few times about my debating but here we go. So with the 7.1.5 catch up, I can get my Ret to AK20 which is awesome as I can get all his traits unlocked very quickly, then obviously unlock Prot (gotta have a tank spec!)

My only issue is, I play Havoc/Vengeance and Frost/Blood at the moment and mostly do Mythic+, World Content and PvP... Is going Ret going to feel a bit "meh" or is it very competitive in those areas? I know they have sick ST, but how is the AoE in M+? World Content I assume I'll be fine as I have a ton of defensives... and PvP again I think we're ok?

what Phréak said. But what he didn´t take into consideration was that you play Frost DK and havoc. If you directly compare the "fun factor" of the speccs you will have to look for what you enjoy most. Do you just love to wreak bosses? Ret is your choice. Do you enjoy the feeling of obliterating trash in dungeons to push for good clear times? than frost and havoc are yours.
While rets can do decent on trash pulls, the conditions just have to be right not too much trash, not to few trash, trash that lives long enough, etc. DH and DK just think the more the merrier.
DH and DK can also do well on bosses and coping with mechanics works ok as well. But the ret just stands there and soaks shit and benefits from it even (say Hello SoV) and even if you fail you still got bubble and LoH.

So in the end it´s up to you

[Yhcti]

I'm guessing it'd be a nice combo to have though, Havoc/Frost for those AoE situations and Ret to annihilate ST thanks for the info guys, I think i'll give it a go. I used to main Warlock and Ele Shaman but the ranged classes in this expo really aren't enjoyable at all :x

[Poundcake]

Yhcti,


on a sidenote, people's opinion about rets is fairly negative. and without the proper ilvl. you might have difficulties getting into m+ groups. therefore i suggest joining friends or a guild to satisfy your needs on that matter.

That's because 85% of ret players are god awful

[Snowfunk]

Imo, Zeal vs TFoJ isn't even a discussion.

Using Zeal makes your Crusade massively subpar to when using TFoJ.
Unless the entire "fight" is a cleave fest, I highly doubt Zeal is ever a competitive choice.