Hold off doing emissary quests until patch?

[Skulltaker]

No idea what makes you say that, but changing loot spec also changed the weapons you got from the cache. Surely it could be possible that loot is determined for every spec when the item drops and then scales to the appropriate level and only contains the items that are valid for your loot spec.

Or instead of implementing a unnecessary complex solution the loot is simply determined when the box is opened. Somehow remembers me of Scrub's Zebra.

Disagree. Devs have confirmed befor that loot is determined the moment a container is created. That includes mobs, btw. The game was coded that way. So, you'd have to program a whole new container system. Which I assume is more work. I haven't heard of any statement correcting or altering this fact, so, to take up your zebra refference, I think it more likely that they took a working system and adapted it to current circumstances, then to assume they created a new system.

You'd also need to create 36 loot tables. Or rather, have one, with the items inside having an adapting value to the current spec.

[Christonya]

As per the title.

Afaik the loot from the emissary cache is generated the moment you get the cache so doing the quests and saving the cache is a no go. So instead would it be wise to not do the emissary quest until reset for that new legendary smell?

Last time a patch came out, I logged in with 3 emissaries. I'm willing to bet that when we log on in 7.1.5 we will have 3 emissaries readily available.

[Tradu]

Got my last one about 6 weeks ago which is what got me thinking. Probably the first and only time i don't want a legendary to drop ^_^

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It's been stated many times that saving caches in your bags won't work. My idea was to save the actual quest and do them after 7.1.5, but as before they will most likely reset to 3/3 caches on reset anyway rendering my idea useless.

Blizzard never actually said that, and it's not like you're losing anything by saving the caches. At best you get new cool stuff, at worst it's the same stuff you would've gotten anyway just delayed by a few days.

[Skulltaker]

That's false. I don't know why people double down on lying when they're wrong. I specifically saved every chest while leveling a new character during the legion event. Had more than 100 when I hit max level and they all gave me max level gear. Even the ones I got at level 1.

If you even agree we don't know, why are you doubling down on your lying and spreading misinformation?

Did you read what I wrote? Did you comprehend it? The loot is determined the moment you get the chest. It is scaled to you the moment you open it. So of course, when you are max level, the loot would also be max level.

If that wasn't the case, there'd need to be 100 loottables for each of the 36 speccs you have in the game. Or rather, one loot table with loot adapting to the moment.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

That's nonsense, I always complete my ECs as balance druid, and before opening them I switch to resto. I have gotten four resto only legendaries so far.
And considering the loot changes quality (completed ECs on my rogue with itemlevel <800, forgot about them in the bank, opened them when I had ilevel 840+ and got base ilvl 835 items out of them) we can be fairly certain the loot is not predetermined.

But what is your loot spec set to? You can do all the quests in one spec, and still have your loot spec set to a different one.

[Skulltaker]

They've never confirmed that.

Yes, they have. Years ago. Bashiok made a forum post explaining how and when loot is created and determined. The actual thread doesn't exist anymore, but you can see it quoted here.

http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/156...tion_clarified

Next time, befor you accuse someone of lying, do your research. We wouldn't want you to look stupid.

[Puri]

Disagree. Devs have confirmed befor that loot is determined the moment a container is created. That includes mobs, btw. The game was coded that way. So, you'd have to program a whole new container system. Which I assume is more work. I haven't heard of any statement correcting or altering this fact, so, to take up your zebra refference, I think it more likely that they took a working system and adapted it to current circumstances, then to assume they created a new system.

You'd also need to create 36 loot tables. Or rather, have one, with the items inside having an adapting value to the current spec.

Where is the confirmation? The only blue post I ever saw considering loot generation is from 2012, where they said that the loot is determined the moment a mob spawns or an instance is openend. But this obviously predates personal loot, it can no longer work that way.

[Frood]

Where is the confirmation? The only blue post I ever saw considering loot generation is from 2012, where they said that the loot is determined the moment a mob spawns or an instance is openend. But this obviously predates personal loot, it can no longer work that way.

Actually, loot being pre-determined upon container generation was a vital part of the Grumpus mount scandal back in 2015. The bug was that you could open the container, and without looting the items inside, sell it back and buy another until you got one with the 1% mount.

[Skulltaker]

Where is the confirmation? The only blue post I ever saw considering loot generation is from 2012, where they said that the loot is determined the moment a mob spawns or an instance is openend. But this obviously predates personal loot, it can no longer work that way.

Why not? Personal loot is no different from normal loot, only that you auto-loot it, and you are the only person elligable to get it. If you are on a quest, and your friend in your group is not, and you have free for all loot enabled, the moment you attempt to loot the mob, it has a quest item and some grey junk. Your buddy would only see the junk. The quest item is still there, he's just not elligable for it. It is personalized to you.

So, the moment you enter the instance, it creates a given amount of items, as usual. Let's say 10 items. It doesn't determine what they are specifically, but they are there. Now, the moment the boss turns into a 'container', it 'randomly' selects 10 players elligable for loot, and then gives them an item suited to their loot specialization.

What is different is probably bonus rolls. I'd love to know how they work.

[Hawg]

But you guys think that even the loot spec is evaluated when you get the cache and not when you open it?
I always thought that maybe just the "pool" of item is evaluated when you get it(ex. marked as 7.1 cache) and then the item are rolled on opening

I received two legendaries from doing Emmisary quests, and in both cases the legendary was awarded to me as soon as i turned in the quest, not when I opened the chest (i.e. It wasnt in the chest: for turning in the quest i recieved a legendary, an AP item, and an unopened chest). I would guess this is always how they are awarded from Emissary quests?

[Raelbo]

If you held off from today you'd have 3 on reset so i'm not sure why you are mentioning missing anything. But as @Simcaz mentioned, the WQ will reset on patch day anyway so the point is moot.

Last Patch I had completed two emissary quests but hadn't yet handed them in because I was waiting on an artifact knowledge research to finish. I lost those quests when the patch landed and the emissary quests were replaced with 3 new uncompleted quests.

So my advice is to finish all available emissary quests before patch day and make sure you turn them in.

[Emerald Archer]

As per the title.

Afaik the loot from the emissary cache is generated the moment you get the cache so doing the quests and saving the cache is a no go. So instead would it be wise to not do the emissary quest until reset for that new legendary smell?

People have been getting caches on live, then opening them on ptr, and getting new legendaries. It's worth doing them, and holding onto the caches. Plus Blizz already stated "new legendaries will be 940" so if you get one, it's 940.

There's really no reason not to save up some and open it then.

[Puri]

Actually, loot being pre-determined upon container generation was a vital part of the Grumpus mount scandal back in 2015. The bug was that you could open the container, and without looting the items inside, sell it back and buy another until you got one with the 1% mount.

So and? I don't deny that there are lootboxes where loot is predetemined (especially lock boxes).
Actually I know of at least three types of containers ingame:
1. Containers you can open, look into them, take none or a few things out, and you could even trade them. Lockbxes for example
2. Containers that mimick the behaviour of the classical loot box, but they are one-time open only and the close button is. That means to close the loot window you have to take all things out, if you dc or log off the loot will be sent by the postmaster (for example most event caches)
3. Containers that don't even open a loot window anymore and items are magically put into your inventory (EC).

I am fairly certain that loot form containers of the first kind is determined when it drops, while for the other containers it is determined when you open them.

[Vordie]

emissary quests will be reset on patch day, complete them before or lose them

Source?

/10char

[Skulltaker]

No, they haven't.



That quote? Do you not realize that has nothing to do with how a cache or a chest works? They didn't exist back then. That would also suggest a raid boss has a legendary on it as soon as the ID is generated when you enter the raid. Obviously it doesn't work like that because everyone has a varying chance of looting a legendary because of bad luck protection. I seriously doubt they put some kind of qualifier on it and only allow it to drop if you have a certain amount of bad luck protection. If anything, the legendary drops are completely independent of the loot generation and everyone has their own internal legendary generator that's rolled every time they loot something that can possibly drop one.

Or as someone else mentioned, personal loot. Throws that entire shit out the window for you.

No, it doesn't. Use your brain for a change. And if you are telling me that there were no personal containers back since vanilla, all the little treasure chests that rogues could open would want a word with you.

And yes. Legendaries could, theoretically, all be there when the boss dies. And wether or not someone gets one is determined individually.

You think it generates loot every time you level? That's definitely false. I have no idea what your second statement is saying.

You going to triple down your lies?

No. Again. Think. It's easy. You are level 1. You get a cache. It contains a chestpiece. This is determined when you obtain che cache. Which itemlevel it has is determined the moment you open it. But wether you are level 1, 10 or 100, it was always a chest piece. The only thing that changes is the item level.

If this wasn't the case, and loot was determined the moment you opened said cache, there would need to be 360 independant loot tables. One for each level for each spec.

[Puri]

So, the moment you enter the instance, it creates a given amount of items, as usual. Let's say 10 items. It doesn't determine what they are specifically, but they are there. Now, the moment the boss turns into a 'container', it 'randomly' selects 10 players elligable for loot, and then gives them an item suited to their loot specialization.

But what if after the first boss 10 people leave the instance, 15 other join, two switch their loot spec during the kill. Do you really think the server creates a matrix of all possible permutations of classes and loot specs when you enter an instance? Or would it not be much simpler to determine loot the moment the boss dies?

[Skulltaker]

But what if after the first boss 10 people leave the instance, 15 other join, two switch their loot spec during the kill. Do you really think the server creates a matrix of all possible permutations of classes and loot specs when you enter an instance? Or would it not be much simpler to determine loot the moment the boss dies?

Simple is a relative term. If you'd start from scratch, yes. I'd assume it would be. But this is a very old engine, and we know how it used to work. And from my (little) experience with programming it is usually easier to find individual workarounds then including a whole new system.

[Dazu]

I received two legendaries from doing Emmisary quests, and in both cases the legendary was awarded to me as soon as i turned in the quest, not when I opened the chest (i.e. It wasnt in the chest: for turning in the quest i recieved a legendary, an AP item, and an unopened chest). I would guess this is always how they are awarded from Emissary quests?

No they are in the caches. Ive had 4 in caches now, and its always been when I opened it. It also always rolled to the spec the character was currently in at opening not quest turn in (Emissary quest turned in as Ele with Ele as spec, changed to resto and recieved resto shaman bracers etc).

As for the item creation etc. The looting and systems of loot have been completely overhauled since Drysc made that comment, and we dont even have the entire original comment anymore AFAIK. All we do know is that items are not preset to a specific item ID on container creation, but what the internal workings are and whats decided on creation and whats decided on opening is entirely unknown.

One thing we can definitely know for sure though is, loot is not generated on instance creation anymore. If loot was generated on instance creation, and you replaced a member of your group when on personal loot who was of a different loot type (Say replace a bear druid with a paladin tank), if the loot was already created and decided, the paladin would be incapable of gaining plate items, yet they can.

[Shadocat]

But you guys think that even the loot spec is evaluated when you get the cache and not when you open it?

I just got the fel artefact relic "Perilous Bargain" from a WQ cache on my rogue which is for Subtlety.
I only have the weapons for Assassination though and only switched briefly to Outlaw for the "Find Treasure" tracking ability.
Loot specialisation is set to "current".
Annother "wtf" moment in Legion but most probably not the last given the state of the upcoming patch.

[Zequill]

emissary quests will be reset on patch day, complete them before or lose them

It happen once with the one patch we got so far. Could be just a bug that won't happen again. Don't get your hope too high...