It's time to remove ARENA. part 2

[cqwrteur]

1. Arena Has Never, Ever Been Good. Period.

2. Arena Skill And Balance Is A Myth

3. Ratings Are Bad For The Community

TL;DR op version:
It's time to remove ARENA
Horrigan's OP

[bobo333]

1. just because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean it should be removed. i find raiding to be really dull and repetitive, but i'm not gonna post about it

2. pvp has never been balanced and that's part f the fun. no two rogues are alike

3. this is the most nonsense i've read all morning and isn't even worthy of a reply

[cqwrteur]

1. Just because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean it should be removed. I find raiding to be really dull and repetitive, but i'm not gonna post about it

2. Pvp has never been balanced and that's part f the fun. No two rogues are alike

3. This is the most nonsense i've read all morning and isn't even worthy of a reply

PvP isnt arena. Stop trolling

[cqwrteur]

Horrigan's OP

What an utterly stupid thread. So far I have been giving it the responses I feel it deserves which are dismissive, mocking jabs but seeing such a vocal minority being so incorrect has just driven me to make a serious post.

Arena Has Never, Ever Been Good. Period.

During the height of arena which was during TBC from Season 1 to 4 arena was always a small niche that players did to get "welfare epics" as then WoW designer Jeff Kaplan described them. People would opt in to do arena so that they could do 10 games a week and gradually purchase gear and progress their character. Coming from vanilla where the only real obtainable PvP gear was from PvE meant that people were happy to do this.

This here is the first and only example needed as to why people did arena. Getting gear. Progressing their character. People didn't flock and flood the tournament realms now did they? No. Some did, sure. But the majority of players in WoW did NOT participate in the arena. Most of your PvP came from the following:

1. Random Battlegrounds
2. World PvP (Not including Wintergrasp)
3. Dueling

People would do the arena in order to gear and make sure their characters were capable of succeeding in these forms of fighting. Resilience meant that if you wore too much PvE gear you got blown up so you wanted to always make sure you had the latest, greatest gear from that season.

Much to the chagrin of raiders (and developers) Blizzard began to lock gear behind rating requirements. We went from shoulders at 2k in Season 3 to weapons at 2.2k in season 6. These were a result of Blizzard trying to add "progression" to this system. People continued to do it because if they wanted to be the best in the PvP they preferred they HAD to get the arena rating to compete.

Having a 2.2k weapon in a random battleground or world PvP battle was a huge deal and was one of the reasons why I myself pushed for it.

Do you see a pattern here? People were not doing arena because it was fun, engaging or exciting. I am sure some people were but they were an extreme minority that was shrinking since the inception of arena. Putting players under a microscope of class balance and "skill" is simply not fun for a lot of people. Especially in an MMORPG. The height of WoW PvP was easily vanilla because everyone could participate and in some way feel like they were progressing their characters forward.

Save your breath and spare me the R14 grind woes. We're talking about arena here. I brought up vanilla because it EASILY had the highest amount of players participating in PvP. PvP realms were a warzone and players came to WoW from much more venerable PvP games such as DAoC or AC. I myself came from DAoC and PlanetSide and rolled exclusively on a PvP realm to PvP as did many, many others.

TLDR: Arena isn't fun for the majority of WoW players. Once the gear was removed players have no interest in doing it since it is not fun. People play Battlefield because it is fun. They do not need to be incentivized. Once the incentive of loot and character progression was removed from arena people stopped doing it yet RANDOM BATTLEGROUNDS and WORLD PvP is full of players. Neither of which reward you either.

Arena Skill And Balance Is A Myth

One of the key things in this stupid thread was some fool claiming that the "skill" from arena is gone. Treating this game as if it was the Quake 3 arena of MMO-PvP at one point and is now nothing more than CoD.

No kid, you're wrong. WoW arena was never, ever balanced and you had to meet quite a few "checks" before you could start to be called skilled.

Warrior in S1? Better hope you have a Stunherald.
Healer in S2 to S4? Better hope you're a Druid!

Wait, what is that? You're a Holy Paladin in 2v2/3v3? Haha! Get the hell out of here. Enjoy being locked out FOREVER.

Oh you're trying to do 5v5? Better make sure you have an elemental shaman or you're not going anywhere!

Sure if you happened to be one of the FoTM classes or specs you could compete. But... you also have to have the right gear. A lot of which came from PvE. Minor things like trinkets or big things like Stormherald. It all mattered. I still remember fighting rogues with warglaives in S2. Only reason why we could beat them is I would get a well timed mace stun proc. Game was a joke.

Oh WoTLK was the best you say? Really? Was it the best because being a DK in S5 meant you got a free gladiator mount/title? Or how about beastcleave in S6? TSG in S7? And oh man who can forget season 8?!? Heroic DBW, DFO, SHADOWMOURNE! So much skill and fun!

This trash was never balanced and just further reinforces point #1 that arena was never, ever fun.

TLDR: Arena has never been about skill for the average player. It was always about gear, comp and class. Nothing more.

Ratings Are Bad For The Community

I don't use the word toxic. It is a stupid buzzword that millennial's use to describe people who call them (often rightfully) retarded. Ratings cause this "toxic" behavior because somebody has a chance to take something away from you. Imagine being in a dungeon and somebody wipes your group and you lose a piece of gear. His failure simply means you yourself aren't good anymore. You get out of that dungeon and your peers begin to make fun of you.

"Haha! Tyler you stupid moron. Your IL was 890 a few hours ago and now it is down to 870, you washed up now bro?"

"No Dillion, you dork. Some stupid LITERALLY STUPID RETARDED HEALER like TOTALLY WORST HEALER NA couldn't KEEP ME UP WHEN I WAS STANDING IN FIRE!"

Sounds stupid, right? Well welcome to rating based PvP. Other players on your team have the ability to remove something from you and truly make you hate them. No, you don't just lose time... oh no. You lose RATING and thus PROGRESS. Well how is Joe Snuffy the "WORST HEALER NA" going to get better when he can't get into a group because his failure means other people suffer?

I shouldn't have to go into this much more. You get the point.

Ratings are bad. Ratings cause toxicity. Ratings are the main cause of a lot of problems. What are my credentials to say this? Well just look at my PvP cheevos if you really care. I've been to the top and have seen it ESPECIALLY in RBG communities. I've also had the pleasure of playing other games that aren't WoW or MOBA #16 of the year. Is it any wonder why WoW PvP shares the same issues as LoL or DOTA? Is it really?

None of what I says matters because nothing will change but I simply can't let stupid people sit by and praise a dead, dying system that has single handily caused the most irreversible damage to a game I have ever seen.

That INCLUDES LFR.

[Deztru]

Arena has always been good if you play the FOTM burst specs, and the matchmaking wouldn't work without rating.

[bobo333]

ok to give you a reply to 3, it take one more win to get your rating back up. if you're going to arena anyway that's hardly a big deal now is it

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Why did you create a 2nd thread when you're first shitty one is still up?

[ceall]

Reported this thread, as you've already opened another one yesterday. No need for 2 threads about the exact same stuff.

[Deleted]

1. just because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean it should be removed. i find raiding to be really dull and repetitive, but i'm not gonna post about it

2. pvp has never been balanced and that's part f the fun. no two rogues are alike

3. this is the most nonsense i've read all morning and isn't even worthy of a reply

this, exactly. pointless thread. no productive discussion can come from that, pure trolling.

[cqwrteur]

this, exactly. pointless thread. no productive discussion can come from that, pure trolling.

LOL. a 5 posts alt say me trolling. GG boys

[rda]

Stop making stupid duplicate threads.

[Splenda]

Let's not. Don;t make pointless duplicate threads.