(outlaw) is the new slice and dice viable?

[Sierra85]

Question, with the patch notes it mentions a redesign of slice and dice. is the new slice and dice viable or is marked for death/DfA better?

or how much worses will SnD be?

[Adalwolf]

Question, with the patch notes it mentions a redesign of slice and dice. is the new slice and dice viable or is marked for death/DfA better?

or how much worses will SnD be?

At Legion Beta, the Devs specified that passive talents that require less management would always be weaker than active talents that requires more management.

The ideia here is that Roll the Bones requires more management than Slice and Dice. SnD isn't meant to ever be equal to RtB, it's meant to be weaker. It's a trade off: you get a simpler gameplay, but you also do less damage. The issue was that SnD is so much weaker than RtB that nobody in their right minds would ever use SnD, no matter how much they dislike RtB. Now SnD is only 3~5% weaker than RtB, so it's a viable option for casuals that just want to play the game without having to worry about min/max.

[Turisten]

Thread 5th from the top (now) is literally named "anticipation/slice and dice still not viable", yet you thought you had to make a new thread and ask the question?

[Lesane]

At Legion Beta, the Devs specified that passive talents that require less management would always be weaker than active talents that requires more management.

The ideia here is that Roll the Bones requires more management than Slice and Dice. SnD isn't meant to ever be equal to RtB, it's meant to be weaker. It's a trade off: you get a simpler gameplay, but you also do less damage. The issue was that SnD is so much weaker than RtB that nobody in their right minds would ever use SnD, no matter how much they dislike RtB. Now SnD is only 3~5% weaker than RtB, so it's a viable option for casuals that just want to play the game without having to worry about min/max.

Except there's so many examples of passive talents being better than active ones on the same row that it's obviously empty game philosophy if they're not actually going to enforce it.

[Deleted]

Going to make a wild guess here: With the Convergence trinket (8PPM on Outlaw afaik) + Tier Set with some Mastery, Slice&Dice should be viable. Competitive? I don't think so.

[DakonBlackblade]

At Legion Beta, the Devs specified that passive talents that require less management would always be weaker than active talents that requires more management.

The ideia here is that Roll the Bones requires more management than Slice and Dice. SnD isn't meant to ever be equal to RtB, it's meant to be weaker. It's a trade off: you get a simpler gameplay, but you also do less damage. The issue was that SnD is so much weaker than RtB that nobody in their right minds would ever use SnD, no matter how much they dislike RtB. Now SnD is only 3~5% weaker than RtB, so it's a viable option for casuals that just want to play the game without having to worry about min/max.

Except thats not how it goes there are throngs of passive talents that are far superior to active ones and also S&D is a talent it should never be a DPS losss over not even picking anything in the row, what is this a trap for casual players who don't read forums ?

[Deleted]

At Legion Beta, the Devs specified that passive talents that require less management would always be weaker than active talents that requires more management.

The ideia here is that Roll the Bones requires more management than Slice and Dice. SnD isn't meant to ever be equal to RtB, it's meant to be weaker. It's a trade off: you get a simpler gameplay, but you also do less damage. The issue was that SnD is so much weaker than RtB that nobody in their right minds would ever use SnD, no matter how much they dislike RtB. Now SnD is only 3~5% weaker than RtB, so it's a viable option for casuals that just want to play the game without having to worry about min/max.

Is that true, only 3-5% ?

If it works out well on thrash on mythic+ i would kinda use that... just turn the brain of shot on 5% less damage and have fun

[Xanatu]

Is that true, only 3-5% ?

If it works out well on thrash on mythic+ i would kinda use that... just turn the brain of shot on 5% less damage and have fun

That would be raids. In M+ you're going to take a bath because you can't cast MFD so you'd probably lose more like 10-20% or more depending on pack.

[CosmoKramer]

SND builds are viable now. With this new patch it will become even more competitive. Its going to come down how you currently have your artifact relics set up. But if you have mastery relics you will be in great shape to take advantage of the SnD builds. SnD is a lot of fun give it a try

[Sierra85]

SnD is a lot of fun give it a try

i liked it, but i need to do some testing. i know it feels better cause you're not praying to the RNG gods for Roll the bones and getting sad every time.

[buur]

I simmed higher with S&D. Didn't do any live testing. Find it hard to believe that it is actually correct.

[Xanatu]

There has yet to be a logged SND parse.

[Powell]

Why would anyone even use SnD to begin with? Its literally removing the one mechanic that makes Outlaw what it is.
Thats like playing a Shadowpriest with a talent that removes Void Form.

[Lustrick]

I tried SnD Tuesday on a few EN bosses in my guilds heroic blowout before mythic.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...r/17048348/10/

Nythendra is probably the best one to look at. I didn't get rot much if at all.

Before going in I tried a few talent variations on target dummys, 4min30sec tests. Ghostly Strike was about the same as swordmaster.
The 10% autoattack damage ring gave me about 20k dps more than an 865 crit/vers ring.
I used AR/DB at the start once SnD was up. From there I used them separately. Not sure how using them separately at the start would go, but DB on it's own felt pretty good.
The nythendra parse lines up with what I saw on the target dummies, so pretty consistent over 400k.
Current legendaries are insignia and prydaz.
Relics are two of the RT damage, and one of the finisher cost reduced.
For SnD you definitely dont need to reduce your finisher costs - so damage lost there.

[Mask]

I tried SnD a bit. The damage seemed decent, but the playstyle was much more annoying than I expected due to energy capping. I was spamming my rotation as fast as possible and STILL energy capping even outside cooldown phase. I just couldn't activate skills fast enough to keep Combat Potency from capping me every time it got a string of procs. Starting to think the +15% energy regen buff to SnD was not the change we needed. Would have much preferred a True Bearing effect added to SnD instead (1 second per combo point maybe?).