Tank damage

[Deleted]

What does everyone think on this? I always see threads pointing at Ana as the cause for the tank meta, and while she is a good tank healer I've always seen the amount of damage tanks do as the cause for why they are everywhere.

A team stacking 3-4 tanks should really lack damage, but they don't - so there is really no reason to bring attack or defence heroes when tanks can do basically the same or even more damage than the rest of the cast while also having some of the best utility in the game.

If we look at Sombra as an example. She's an attack hero vying for a place on a 6 man team, her gun does tickle damage even when pointed right in someone's face, her ult is a semi-shutdown, her mobility is passable, her abilities are meager yet on a long cooldown. So what is the point of bringing her when you could have chosen Dva who does better damage, has the ability to deny damage ults and eat damage, can engage/escape on a tiny cooldown which also includes the ability to fly and doubles as a knockback hazard and deals damage and has an ult which, if cast correctly, demands the other team triangulate a flight path and move to a predicted safe spot within seconds or wipe while all along having a healthpool of 600 and close-up damage which drops people in a second if she can get in your face?

And Dva really isn't a one-off. All of the tanks bar maybe Zarya have inflated mobility mixed with damage/utility and little counter play.

-Roadhog oneshots every few seconds
-Rein can combo earthshatter with his own damage to wipe a group all at once which pharah would require an ult to do, all the while being able to one-shot with charge and also use it to get around/send nearby people into the stratosphere while Pharahs knockback barely moves people an inch off the ground.
-Zarya has a shield that provides the only one-shot protection in the game while also acts as a cleanse and at full charge becomes a powerhouse
-Dva is tracer on steroids who also consumes damage to deny ult charge

Not trying to rant, just my $0.02. I feel like most of the 'fragile' heroes are in a healthy spot [in terms of health/dmg] but get overlooked because tanks kinda have everything without the drawback of only having 200 health - what do you think?

[Jessicka]

What does everyone think on this? I always see threads pointing at Ana as the cause for the tank meta, and while she is a good tank healer I've always seen the amount of damage tanks do as the cause for why they are everywhere.

A team stacking 3-4 tanks should really lack damage, but they don't - so there is really no reason to bring attack or defence heroes when tanks can do basically the same or even more damage than the rest of the cast while also having some of the best utility in the game.

If we look at Sombra as an example. She's an attack hero vying for a place on a 6 man team, her gun does tickle damage even when pointed right in someone's face, her ult is a semi-shutdown, her mobility is passable, her abilities are meager yet on a long cooldown. So what is the point of bringing her when you could have chosen Dva who does better damage, has the ability to deny damage ults and eat damage, can engage/escape on a tiny cooldown which also includes the ability to fly and doubles as a knockback hazard and deals damage and has an ult which, if cast correctly, demands the other team triangulate a flight path and move to a predicted safe spot within seconds or wipe while all along having a healthpool of 600 and close-up damage which drops people in a second if she can get in your face?

And Dva really isn't a one-off. All of the tanks bar maybe Zarya have inflated mobility mixed with damage/utility and little counter play.

-Roadhog oneshots every few seconds
-Rein can combo earthshatter with his own damage to wipe a group all at once which pharah would require an ult to do, all the while being able to one-shot with charge and also use it to get around/send nearby people into the stratosphere while Pharahs knockback barely moves people an inch off the ground.
-Zarya has a shield that provides the only one-shot protection in the game while also acts as a cleanse and at full charge becomes a powerhouse
-Dva is tracer on steroids who also consumes damage to deny ult charge

Not trying to rant, just my $0.02. I feel like most of the 'fragile' heroes are in a healthy spot [in terms of health/dmg] but get overlooked because tanks kinda have everything without the drawback of only having 200 health - what do you think?

Tanks are supposed to split their time between protecting and damaging, they can't throw out all that DPS while also protecting their team from it. That, fundamentally is I think they're not popular (in spite of Tank Meta, GL finding tanks in QP). Their deity-like perception is somewhat over-stated. The issue of their sustainability is largely down to Ana's biotic grenade, and the arms race between healers.

[mickybrighteyes]

-Rein can combo earthshatter with his own damage to wipe a group all at once which pharah would require an ult to do, all the while being able to one-shot with charge and also use it to get around/send nearby people into the stratosphere while Pharahs knockback barely moves people an inch off the ground.

maybe a comparison that doens't basically use the same event as a standard? a hero can use their ult to wipe a group without additional input compared to a hero that uses an ult and additional input...

-Zarya has a shield that provides the only one-shot protection in the game while also acts as a cleanse and at full charge becomes a powerhouse

it's a +200 hp barrier. Lucio has a +500 hp barrier as his ult. Torb gives +75 hp as armor. Sym has +75 hp as shield. All these effects stack (to the best of my knowledge) and prevent one shot dmg quite easily.

-Dva is tracer on steroids who also consumes damage to deny ult charge

I don't really see how exactly. maybe looking at just health, ult damage and the ability to climb walls. Tracer basically does doubles the dmg of D.Va with basic fire while being significantly more mobile across a horizontal plane.

edit: I suddenly want to see a tracer run with Lucio, zarya, torb and sym... 1000 hp tracer? does her time warp bring back barriers and torb/sym hp boosts?

[Life-Binder]

Zarya needs a nerf

[Deleted]

maybe a comparison that doens't basically use the same event as a standard? a hero can use their ult to wipe a group without additional input compared to a hero that uses an ult and additional input...

I might have worded that poorly, what I meant was following an earthshatter rein can use his normal dmg to wipe a group vs pharah after an earthshatter would need an ult to get them all. Rein gets both setup and damage

[ati87]

I might have worded that poorly, what I meant was following an earthshatter rein can use his normal dmg to wipe a group vs pharah after an earthshatter would need an ult to get them all. Rein gets both setup and damage

Uhm I've seen enough Phara's wipping out a group without having a earthshatter setting up the kill, it's just easier if you have combine it with a CC ulti.

That's just like every other offensive ulti out their including offensive ones like D.va's.

And you're overstating the capabilities of tanks by assuming their damage output is equal to damage dealers, it isn't. Tanks are strong because of a combination of factors which involve their damage but also their survivability, in a 1vs1 situation reaper will easily destroy most tank (maybe not Roadhog) but when you fight around the objective it won't be a 1vs1 situation but ideally a 6vs6.

Sure having Ana helps but that's part of package, Ana wouldn't be able to heal as well if combat was all over the place.

[mickybrighteyes]

I mean.. pharah can outright ult anything to death if she gets the full 3 seconds off...

unless on top of the assumptions on positioning of attackers and targets you're also assuming that the pharah is going to get sniped/killed while ulting =/

edit:
also seems not enough mentions for Pharah's boop possibly wiping a team

[ati87]

I mean.. pharah can outright ult anything to death if she gets the full 3 seconds off...

unless on top of the assumptions on positioning of attackers and targets you're also assuming that the pharah is going to get sniped/killed while ulting =/

edit:
also seems not enough mentions for Pharah's boop possibly wiping a team

it's not character specific the thing your complaining about since it's the same weakness everybody has to deal except Soldier.

Reaper jumps literally in the middle of the group, opening himself to stuns and hooks
D.va you have a few seconds to avoid the self destruct and she is outside her mech for a few seconds\
Junkrat.....enough said
Zarya a single shield of Rein or a wall of Mei will block any extra damage by Zarya and her team
Tracer a single bomb that you can run away from unless it get stucked
Winston most of the times his ulti tickels
Roadhog is totally open as well

so this looks more like a l2p issue tbh then a tanking issue

[mickybrighteyes]

it's not character specific the thing your complaining about since it's the same weakness everybody has to deal except Soldier.

Reaper jumps literally in the middle of the group, opening himself to stuns and hooks
D.va you have a few seconds to avoid the self destruct and she is outside her mech for a few seconds\
Junkrat.....enough said
Zarya a single shield of Rein or a wall of Mei will block any extra damage by Zarya and her team
Tracer a single bomb that you can run away from unless it get stucked
Winston most of the times his ulti tickels
Roadhog is totally open as well

so this looks more like a l2p issue tbh then a tanking issue

my complaint wasn't about ults not getting off, it was about the OP's way of stating that tanks were better dmg dealers than actual damage dealing heroes with no draw backs

[Lilathae]

I know where you are coming from, I had the same feeling. But the point is they all need to be close range to deal such dmg.
Take Mei and it will be over.

[Swizzington]

Roadhog and Dva seem kinda dumb. But both are being nerfed in the next patch as it stands. Yay.