7.1.5 PTR Notes Changes for DPS DKs

[Maxweii]

Fire and Shadow are really bad examples. They were both hit very hard by nerfs to playstyles or overall talents, ect, that the aura barely accounts for it (Fire ST) or keeps things well, whatever Shadow feels about itself now.

[Kendros]

I understand classes with big buffs also got big nerfs on their legendary and etc, but are those nerfs really that big enough to justify the aura buff difference between 6% with 12 or 25? Ion sure wasn't shitting when he said "our team is satisfied with the overall class balance"

Mage Fire - 25%
Priest Shadow - 25%
Rogue Outlaw - 16%
Shaman Enhancement - 16%
Mage Arcane - 12%
Mage Frost - 12%
Hunter Survival - 12%
Paladin Retribution - 12%
Demon Hunter Havoc - 10%
Demon Hunter Vengeance - 9%
Monk Brewmaster - 9%
Hunter Beast Mastery - 9%
Rogue Sublety - 9%
Druid Feral - 8%
Monk Windwalker - 8%
Rogue Assassination - 7%
Death Knight Unholy - 6%
Warrior Arms - 5%
Warrior Fury - 5%
Druid Guardian - 4%
Warlock Destruction - 4%
Death Knight Frost - None
Hunter Marksmanship - None
Shaman Elemental - None
Warlock Affliction - None
Warlock Demonology - None

Most classes that already perform better than us, specialy melees got buffed and no nerfs, except for legendaries. We still are gonna be botton. Buffing big cds and 17% damage on death coil wont solve our sustained dps problem, ppl that think otherwise are just delusional.

[TiagoRamos]

Not really excited about whats new with UH... really small buffs and a nerf to our Apoc ability.
I dont except more than what happened before, being around middle of the pack.
And there are a lot of changes that arent at patch notes so not sure if were implemented.
How can other classes have that %% of damage increase and we get 6%?
And now we got recources starving and the RP pooling remains the same...

[Deleted]

where the fuck is the garg/da buff? pet scaling with mastery in DT and apocalypse 6 wounds change? i can't see them in the notes

[TiagoRamos]

This is an example of the level of respect that Blizz has to DK's in general, specially UH.
Gotta have hope on next patches to come...

[hasslehoof]

where the fuck is the garg/da buff? pet scaling with mastery in DT and apocalypse 6 wounds change? i can't see them in the notes

most of the class changes are missing from the notes but are still live on the ptr, so they just couldn't be bothered to finish adding the stuff they forgot it seems.

it's not just limited to dks.

[Deleted]

i just hope they didn't "forget" about them...

[Adlian]

Most classes that already perform better than us, specialy melees got buffed and no nerfs, except for legendaries. We still are gonna be botton. Buffing big cds and 17% damage on death coil wont solve our sustained dps problem, ppl that think otherwise are just delusional.

Im afraid of that too. I dont know why Blizzard refuse to let DKs be near the top. Also what happened with Appo needing 6 wounds, down from 8? Really hope they didnt scrapped that.

[TiagoRamos]

Gargoyle still doing retarded damage with that 50% damage increase, makes no sense for 1 gcd of 3m of cooldown.
Even with the shoulders (which I have)

[Deleted]

Im afraid of that too. I dont know why Blizzard refuse to let DKs be near the top. Also what happened with Appo needing 6 wounds, down from 8? Really hope they didnt scrapped that.

I would happily settle for middle of the pack.

[spanishninja]

Not really excited about whats new with UH... really small buffs and a nerf to our Apoc ability.
I dont except more than what happened before, being around middle of the pack.
And there are a lot of changes that arent at patch notes so not sure if were implemented.
How can other classes have that %% of damage increase and we get 6%?
And now we got recources starving and the RP pooling remains the same...

if they end up the armies of the damned proc rate like they said they would, then it's not really a nerf to apoc.

[Deleted]

My concern regarding patch notes for frost is that we know for a fact that they have nerfed secondary stats, and I clearly remember reading Lore stating that they will compensate for this nerf by making it so that everyone "hits harder", which is what I assume most classes are seeing now with these patch notes.

But if our current talent spec is left untouched by 7.1.5, as it currently looks like, it means that we are only seeing the secondary stat nerf, and thats it.
No flat dmg% increase to compensate and that means we are being nerfed, which feels uncalled for. Or am I missing something?

[Deleted]

im sure garg and da dmg is in the 'many unholy dmg abilities increased' section
blizzard would never fail us that hard

Blizzard can fail us that hard.

[Cerunnir]

Not really excited about whats new with UH... really small buffs and a nerf to our Apoc ability.
I dont except more than what happened before, being around middle of the pack.
And there are a lot of changes that arent at patch notes so not sure if were implemented.
How can other classes have that %% of damage increase and we get 6%?
And now we got recources starving and the RP pooling remains the same...

Total buffs to UH DK is in the region of 20-25% increase in DPS. Thats quite major, and should put us right around current frost DK numbers maybe even above.

Fire mage (etc) gets a huge percentage buff, to compensate for major nerfs to legendaries and abilities. Frost did not get nerfed at all, so they dont need buffs to compensate. Frost DKs are perfectly placed middle of the pack. You dont want to be towards the top, because that will mean nerfs down the line, and blizzard is known to over-nerf. Unholy got a small baseline buff to DPS (6%) but we also got alot of other buffs.

[Kendros]

Total buffs to UH DK is in the region of 20-25% increase in DPS. Thats quite major, and should put us right around current frost DK numbers maybe even above.

Fire mage (etc) gets a huge percentage buff, to compensate for major nerfs to legendaries and abilities. Frost did not get nerfed at all, so they dont need buffs to compensate. Frost DKs are perfectly placed middle of the pack. You dont want to be towards the top, because that will mean nerfs down the line, and blizzard is known to over-nerf. Unholy got a small baseline buff to DPS (6%) but we also got alot of other buffs.

The problem to me are not Mages or Spriests, these are mostly getting nerfed a bit, the problem is for example classes like ass rogues, enh shamans, arms war, and DH that already perform better than UH dks are all getting big buffs, while all we get is 17% Death coil damage and Garg damage which doesnt solve our problems at all, we still are gonna be shit.

[Halliax]

What will happens with Frost today is the same what happened with unholy after that balance patch for EN, we are being nerfed by the lack of buffs, our peers(others Mdps) are geting major buffs, why we are left untouched(except for a new situational build).

[Schizoide]

All the agility classes lost 5% base crit, so essentially subtract 5% from the bottom on those.

The classes that got the biggest flat buffs (fire, shadow, outlaw, and enhance) had serious nerfs to core abilities (S2M for Shadow is HUGE, combustion for Fire, blade flurry for Outlaw, boulderfist for Enhance) or were already pretty weak (outlaw and enhance). Also all classes had their top legendaries nerfed, in some cases substantially.

There's no particular reason to think frost or unholy will be in the toilet in 7.1.5-- there are just way too many variables to come to any supported conclusion. We'll need to wait for 2 weeks of raid parses to tell, just like every patch.

My main concern with the Frost changes are that they largely won't do what they were supposed to do. The point of 7.1.5 was to buff up underused talents so people take them. In PvE ain't nobody gonna take Abomination's Might, Freezing Fog, or White Walker. The other buffed talents will only be taken alongside Breath of Sindragosa, if that turns out to be the meta. So if BoS is king Horn of Winter, Murderous Efficiency, etc, will have a place but only with BoS.

Given the challenges executing BoS properly and that it doesn't scale past 2 targets, I expect to see lots of aspirational players taking that build because the FAQs tell them to, because it sims as 4.771% higher (or whatever, number is BS) than the OBRA build, but end up performing poorly in actual encounters.

[Mitra]

All the agility classes lost 5% base crit, so essentially subtract 5% from the bottom on those.


There's no particular reason to think frost or unholy will be in the toilet in 7.1.5-- there are just way too many variables to come to any supported conclusion. We'll need to wait for 2 weeks of raid parses to tell, just like every patch.

I just think that DKs waited for too long...

[Maxweii]

All the changes that were in the most recent PTR build are in. Meaning the things that weren't in patch notes like
Apoc popping 6 wounds
Gary/DA damage buff
Shadow damage when the ghoul is transformed

Those are all in

HOWEVER the ghoul is not scaling with Mastery when transformed, so submit bug reports on that.

[Deleted]

Any rough idea how much that bug costs us? A couple of % or something more substantial?