Study: Majority of muslim students training to be teachers in Germany deny evolution

[Kalis]

Which none of those will conflict with one's religion. That I am aware of. However, evolution, conflicts with several religions ( well know world wide and representing billions of people ) around the world.

Should we not teach Pi accurately? The Bible gets that wrong and teaching it would conflict with Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

[Macaquerie]

How about the fundamentalist christians in the US? Same shit, same religion, same stupid.

Eh, fundamentalist Christians are by and large a sorry bunch of hypocrites who abandon their principles at the drop of a hat whenever expedient. Islamists at the very least seem to genuinely believe the BS they're spewing.

[Kalis]

How about the fundamentalist christians in the US? Same shit, same religion, same stupid.

Isn't that more an argument that Americans should not become teachers in Germany?

[Jakisuaki]

I'd argue that atheists can make the best religion teachers, since 1) they're teaching it more as a "history of what people have believed" class than a "this is fact" class, and 2) they're not going to favor one religion over any of the others during the course of the term.

I agree. Religion should be taught purely as a historical subject (Which it is where I'm from), atheists/agnostics/others will by nature be more objective in teaching stuff like that, and you can definitely apply the same logic to teaching evolution. It's not a religion, it's not a theory. It's fact.

[Runenwächter]

How about the fundamentalist christians in the US? Same shit, same religion, same stupid.

Again, different country. I get that the US is kind of important when it comes to cultural trends, but please do not treat the development of every situation like an experience with groups and behaviours you'd assume inside the US.

[JohnBrown1917]

Not the same. None of those except for evolution, conflicts with one's religion and why does it matter if it is not taught. What will happen to a person if it is not?

A lot of things taught in school conflict with religion, history is another subject.

Who cares it conflicts with religion? Aside from learning about them, it should not affect any subjects taught in school.

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It's hilarious just how much Deep South conservatives have in common with Muslims.

Or the Dutch bible belt. Or whatever the german equivalent it.

[Flarelaine]

Please do stay with the topic.

This is about future educators in GERMANY. I respect that circumstances might be different in the US of A in regards to christian religious fundamentalists and that this poses problems of a similar kind for your people, but in Germany the situation is different as you can see in my opening post.

Christians in my country are secular and rather pro science which you can see from the 80% rate of acceptance amongst both evangelicals and catholics.

On topic: I don't think it should be an issue. Slip a clause into employment contracts (better yet, mandate such clauses by law) where the teacher will have to accept they will have to teach the approved curriculum regardless of personal beliefs. Or else.

[Machismo]

Again, different country. I get that the US is kind of important when it comes to cultural trends, but please do not treat the development of every situation like an experience with groups and behaviours you'd assume inside the US.

They are making a comparison, why do you have such a problem with it? You seem to want to try and push an agenda, so you may as well spell out exactly what you want to say.

[Runenwächter]

The point is we can look at the US to see how much of a concern it is. The answer is not much as long as your government has the least hint of a backbone.

Assuming the same mobility and ability of a system to react to dangerous individuals that would be a reasonable conclusion, however the same mobility and ability to of the system to protect itself against a long term trend are not reasonably assumed.

[Draco-Onis]

Again, different country. I get that the US is kind of important when it comes to cultural trends, but please do not treat the development of every situation like an experience with groups and behaviours you'd assume inside the US.

I could not find any data on this except a poll from 2010 that shows that 65% of Germans believe in evolution, I am sure as more generation assimilate this number will be similar in the Muslim community. It also does not matter what they believe they will still teach it textbook, personal beliefs should not play a part if it does then they need to be fired.

[Cronovey]

Which none of those will conflict with one's religion. That I am aware of. However, evolution, conflicts with several religions ( well know world wide and representing billions of people ) around the world.

For the record, can anyone specifically show exactly where it says anything about evolution being proven false anywhere in their religious texts or that it is in any way against the religion? Last I checked, the Pope himself has said that the theory of evolution is not inconsistent with the Bible so why is it an issue that something which actually aligns with a holy leader's thoughts be taught in schools?

Where exactly is the conflict in your religious text that says evolution cannot possibly be a thing that has happened?

[JohnBrown1917]

Please do stay with the topic.

This is about future educators in GERMANY. I respect that circumstances might be different in the US of A in regards to christian religious fundamentalists and that this poses problems of a similar kind for your people, but in Germany the situation is different as you can see in my opening post.

Christians in my country are secular and rather pro science which you can see from the 80% rate of acceptance amongst both evangelicals and catholics.

I'm not American.

[Runenwächter]

They are making a comparison, why do you have such a problem with it? You seem to want to try and push an agenda, so you may as well spell out exactly what you want to say.

You are implying ill intent on my part as a response for criticizing an argument that asumes sufficient similarity between our systems, laws, population subgroups and ultimately our values. I think that is perfectly valid criticism.

[kail]

If one truly enjoys freedom of religion, then non mandatory class subjects which will have no bearing on a person's ability to be a contributing person for society but conflict with their religious beliefs, they should not be subjected to it in a class room environment. Because such classes also have tests which must be passed to get credits. Right? How could they answer such tests in honesty? Write in " I do not accept these teachings"?

They are free to believe what they want in the end, but the class should teach the subject regardless of what religions it conflicts with. Why subject an entire class to academic censorship because of some students' beliefs? There is too much evidence on evolution to dismiss it for science classes.

When a test comes for a subject, they are to answer based on the material learned, not on what they believe. That shit's for philosophy classes.

[Kalis]

For the record, can anyone specifically show exactly where it says anything about evolution being proven false anywhere in their religious texts or that it is in any way against the religion? Last I checked, the Pope himself has said that the theory of evolution is not inconsistent with the Bible so why is it an issue that something which actually aligns with a holy leader's thoughts be taught in schools?

Where exactly is the conflict in your religious text that says evolution cannot possibly be a thing that has happened?

It conflicts with when the Earth was supposedly created and lifespans of people in the Bible from that time onwards. When you add them up you they come out to thousands of years, which is directly contradicted by evolution theory.

A literal interpretation of the Old Testament is the problem.

[Machismo]

You are implying ill intent on my part as a response for criticizing an argument that asumes sufficient similarity between our systems, laws, population subgroups and ultimately our values. I think that is perfectly valid criticism.

I am implying it, and it's pretty obvious that you wish to push an agenda or message. Stop beating around the bush, and just say it. You don't want to talk about someone making a comparison, but the comparison was completely valid. This isn't an issue that is simply endemic to Germany, or even Muslims. It's an issue of people putting unproven personal beliefs over scientific evidence.

[Runenwächter]

I'm not American.

Yet you brought up groups and conditions specific to the US. My bad for making the wrong assumption, but your personal background has no bearing on the argument here: The issue is specific to Germany.

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I am implying it, and it's pretty obvious that you wish to push an agenda or message. Stop beating around the bush, and just say it. You don't want to talk about someone making a comparison, but the comparison was completely valid. This isn't an issue that is simply endemic to Germany, or even Muslims. It's an issue of people putting unproven personal beliefs over scientific evidence.

Say what exactly?

[JohnBrown1917]

Yet you brought up groups and conditions specific to the US. My bad for making the wrong assumption, but your personal background has no bearing on the argument here: The issue is specific to Germany.

I did not.

[Deleted]

https://fowid.de/meldung/akzeptanz-e...nd-und-tuerkei

While >70% of muslim students reject evolution as a scientific theory, the same does not hold true for other major religious groups in Germany such as catholics and evangelical christians. Among these groups >80% accept evoltion. Only the freechurch group had similarly abysmal results, only 40% agree accept evoltion as scientific theory.

It is hard for me to find socially acceptable words for the feelings of disappointment and worry I feel when I think what such a generation of people who strive to become educators and people in positions of relative power and influence over youth means for the future of my country and the civilisation I live in as a whole.

I dont know how other countries do it, but under these circumstances it becomes increasingly cynical to argue that continued influx of people with beliefs like these is a boon for future generations.

Study: Majority also denies the existence of god.

Shocking right? That is how human being works.

Another one:

Study: 4billion people believes in a God - that's half of the worlds population(which is about 50% to be really technical)

Maybe you should join the student training and get some perspective.

[Machismo]

Yet you brought up groups and conditions specific to the US. My bad for making the wrong assumption, but your personal background has no bearing on the argument here: The issue is specific to Germany.

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Say what exactly?

You say that there is no comparison to what you brought up in Germany to that of the same thing in the United States. However, people keep making the comparison. You don't seem to like that. So, one must wonder why you want to keep it specifically about Muslims in Germany, and not about the issue of opposing the teaching of certain aspects of science based on religious beliefs.