Artifact traits at 35+ enabled in PvP

[Deleted]

U guys are such a whinies- wheres your competitive mindset - yes it sucks for your 4 alt shamans - but main chars will pwn - also u can get an AP point per day even at 40+ so just stop flavoring of the month and play a class u enjoy - besides think its great - will have a chance vs that 2.9 guy on his 6th alt

[Asrialol]

You need to do PVE to be able to PVP, that's true for 90% of the players due to the way ratings work.

There's no "they'll get 54 in no time", we are talking about months.

No, this will ruin PVP not because a large part of the current bla bla bla consists of PVEer with 54 traits, that's a non-sequitur. The change together with other changes will ruin PVP because it forces to do PVE in order to PVP, again (because getting artifact power in PVE is much easier and faster).

You are wrong on everything, that's quite an achievement. You'd be wrong less if you read or thought before hitting reply.

"Need". Try again, friend.

Remember that the majority of the PvP playerbase aren't "hardcore".

I've checked your other replies on the matter and you keep coming with percentages and numbers without actually backing them up. Not really ideal.

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your just one of those internet trolls?? really? if not your just an ignorant little brat plz really stream when you are trying to get 2400+ PLEASE id pay to see that happening! then come and tell us about mindless mobs chasing you around ..... now go to your father and tell him to buy you more hearthstone cards ..... uum excuse me i meant wow game time .... and get the fuck out of the forums...

My what? You're not making any sense.

I don't play hearthstone, unfortunately. Doesn't really appeal to me. Also, you're calling me the trolll when you're telling me to "go to my father (...)"? Oh lord the irony, why art thou so big.

[Zanzha]

The relevant difference is between 54 and 34, not between 54 and 35. But sure, right, the difference between 54 and 35 is "not even 10%", that changes everything.

35 traits is very very easy to get right now its pretty much 2 days worth of worldquests. Its a pretty large powerbump for sure but its much more accessible than 54.

I do agree that just shy of a 10% difference between those that have ground it out and those that haven't is pretty large, however it's still going to be a minority of players that are diehard pver's that have farmed 54 traits and also pvp.

The 4k arenas thing keeps coming up, and its worth mentioning that 54 traits is also just shy of 1k dungeons for the people who have been boosting since the expansion start with lower levels of AK. Between downtime and running the dungeons, unless all your games are max duration and hitting high levels of dampening the time investment is pretty comparable (if it weren't for the arena requiring a win for the full ap reward)

Either way the point is the people at 54 regardless of how they achieved it have been doing a fuckload of content. And just because there is the potential to get matched against someone with that advantage doesn't necessarily mean the majority of your matches will.

[Asrialol]

Yeah you've done that over a time span of 10 or so years. 500 bgs takes months and months of dedicated play to complete. Would you want to be held out of Nighthold for months on months end because you're not properly attuned?00

Not relevant. We've been held out of Nightfold for months, by the way.

Someone did some math (not sure if correct) but it would apparently take 4k arena wins to get to 54 traits. That my friend is not something you do in a couple of weeks, as any PvPer will tell you.

Indeed. And most people hasn't done over 2000 Maw of Souls mythic+ runs either.

This does again pull the legs out under from PvP in regards to participation. No one will want to start playing because they'll be so far behind also alts are an absolute no go.

No one? Are you saying there are no new players that starts PvPing? You realize the majority of players don't play competitive PvP, right?

The only people in favor of this are retards who can't see longer than their nose.

Or those who realizes that it's perfectly fine that effort = reward. Those are probably the same people who were fine with PvP gear being better than some PvE gear in some of the previous expansions.

A 15% damage and stamina deficit (the power gap will be even greater because of low ilvl and no honor talents) for 3-4 months or so on new characters kills PvP. No one will want to take part in that. "You weren't there at the start of expansion or you took a break? Well too bad for you".

So those who have played for a while shouldn't be able to have any advantage at all over new players? Okay. Do you want vendors with free gear?

[Zanzha]

Or those who realizes that it's perfectly fine that effort = reward. Those are probably the same people who were fine with PvP gear being better than some PvE gear in some of the previous expansions.

I mean this is even true now, the PVP trinkets are fucking amazing, not to mention the gear being avaiable at the highest ilvl with random stats that can roll combinations unavailable on the standard loot table, and even double roll (ie mastery or crit ONLY gear) which is obtainable in no other way and is legit bis for some classes, yet there is no whining from the pve'rs that they must pvp for bis simply because most make the choice not to and accept the concequences of that decision.

[Deleted]

The 4k arenas thing keeps coming up, and its worth mentioning that 54 traits is also just shy of 1k dungeons for the people who have been boosting since the expansion start with lower levels of AK.

Yes, but those are traits you knew you'd need since the start of the expansion. This is just being forced on us out of nowhere, and it's not even an even playing field because some people PvE and PvP with the same spec and some people don't. Those people will be ahead for the entire season, easily. Do you not understand the difference?

[rda]

I've checked your other replies on the matter and you keep coming with percentages and numbers without actually backing them up. Not really ideal.

What numbers you want backed up specifically? I back up everything I post, but once I mention the specific number three-four times, I stop posting links for it (but there's history, etc).

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So those who have played for a while shouldn't be able to have any advantage at all over new players? Okay. Do you want vendors with free gear?

The change makes those who spent their time in mythic instances and raids have an advantage over those who spent that time doing arenas. In arenas. That's broken. They shouldn't have that advantage in arenas. If anything, it's the guys who were doing arenas day in and day out should have an advantage - in arenas - over players who did mythic instances and raids. Yet it is the reverse.

You are bending over backwards to not understand the simple point.

[Mafic]

you do know you can instantly get artifact level 22 on an alt now right? so getting over 35 doesent taker that long, and remember each level over 35 is only 0.5%

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no, because one can ONLY BE DONE in pve where the other can be done in pve, pvp, and even fucking pet battles

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yes, 7.2 will add 2 more 3/3 traits, another golden dragon trait, andf all 3/3 will become 4/4 also relics with +2 traits, so yeah it may be for that

You are completely wrong.

This destroys new players or alts so not surprising you don't "understand".

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remember in MoP when PvE players had to do 2 bgs to complete the legendary cloak questchain? remember the backlash that PvErs didnt want to do PvP? Now PvPers have to the same thing but a million times worse.

This is not the same at all, because 2 BGs is not even close to the same as grinding four months in MAW..

[ophion1990]

That's the nail in the coffin for me. I really hated being locked into 1 spec during the initial farm, now I'm gonna be 9.5% damage behind some people because they couldn't be bothered to give us an early heads up and will, once again, be locked into 1 spec for a while after. At the very least they could have been somewhat transparent about upcoming changes. Holinka & co got asked about the bonus traits working in PvP like 500 times, it's hard to not see this as a "fuck you" by the devs.

This + the extra Artifact traits that are supposedly gonna land with 7.2 honestly make Legion feel absurdly grindy.

What was even the point of removing gear at this point? :x The grind is still here, yet instead of gear we get minor % damage upgrades througout the season, 10/10 this sure got me hyped. Like, the biggest reason I was pro gear removal was alt accesibility, which has completly flown out of the window now.

[Zanzha]

Yes, but those are traits you knew you'd need since the start of the expansion. This is just being forced on us out of nowhere, and it's not even an even playing field because some people PvE and PvP with the same spec and some people don't. Those people will be ahead for the entire season, easily. Do you not understand the difference?

Needed is a strong word, the vast majority of players are not in a position where 54 traits is an expected requirement and thus a gateway to entry for nighthold.
However yes it was a goal and many set out to reach that goal as soon as possible.

I said earlier however that I agree the biggest problem with this is that it's come out of the blue with no warning and better communication is needed from blizzard in the future.

As for the discrepancy between your two speccs, that's a decision that you made yourself, and your basically saying that you value your progression in pve over pvp which is totally fine however there are consequences for that, its not something that was forced on you. In anycase the diminish returns make it so that if you do choose to maintain two speccs over one you aren't that far behind someone who is investing only in one.

Lets say for example you had enough ap to get two speccs to 35, that gives you ~13.6million ap, which is just about enough to get ~37-38 traits in one specc, that's your raid ( or pvp specc) being a collossal 1.5% behind someone who invested into only one weapon. Hardly make or break material.

[Minttunator]

Personally I like this change but that's only because I'm not very good at PVP and I enjoy outgearing my opponents - I don't see how this change makes sense in the context of Blizz claiming that they don't want gear to matter much in PVP (which they did say at the start of the expansion)!

[Deleted]

Needed is a strong word, the vast majority of players are not in a position where 54 traits is an expected requirement and thus a gateway to entry for nighthold.

Irrelevant. It was there, it was the only thing to do with your AP after you got all your weapons to 34. You KNEW you were getting something out of it. PvP players knew they could put that AP into their PvE weapon because they KNEW it would do nothing for their PvP one.

As for the discrepancy between your two speccs, that's a decision that you made yourself

Are you serious? No, it's not, are you saying all specs are equal in PvP and PvE? This is exactly what I was saying earlier, people who defend this change are raiders who occasionally queue for BGs with their PvE spec and think everyone can do the same. What about Outlaw Rogues, Holy Priests, MM Hunters, Vengeance DHs who put AP into those weapons because they figured their PvP ones were safe until 7.2? Are they meant to PvP as those specs now? Do you think any of those are viable?

and your basically saying that you value your progression in pve over pvp

No, I'm not. I'm saying the opposite. If I knew I had to choose between putting points in my PvE weapon and my PvP one I would not have chosen the PvE one. I was told that I didn't have to get my PvP one past 34 for MONTHS, and now all of a sudden I do. NO ONE put points into their PvP weapon just in case Blizzard might magically wake up one day and decide to change this. The only people who benefit from this are the few people who just happen to play the same spec in both areas, in which case they're very lucky and I'm very glad for them and their free title.

In anycase the diminish returns make it so that if you do choose to maintain two speccs over one you aren't that far behind someone who is investing only in one.

Except I am. My PvE weapon is at 47. I do not raid. I do M+ and as many AP WQs as I can, and I put my AP into that weapon not because I didn't care about my PvP one, but because it would have been useless there as we were told for the past 4-5 months. People who raid seriously are higher than me by now. Some are completely maxed out. My PvP weapon is at 33, because Subtlety's 34th trait made you WORSE in PvP, but even ignoring that, I would still have left it at 34 because I had literally no reason not to. Once I log onto the new patch, people will be 15% stronger than me. I will not catch up to that 15% this season. It's just impossible unless you chain boost MoS all day and then you have no time to actually get anywhere in Arena. I won't even catch up next season, because by then 7.2 will have come out and there will be new traits that those people are already saving AP for. My chances of getting anywhere this season, or even this expansion, are now zero. The majority of people who care about PvP (i.e. not you) are in my situation. What's so confusing?

[Zanzha]

words

Wow you're pretty mad, sucks to be you I guess.

Maths says your wrong.

[Underbyte]

what a terrible change.

Gives massive incentives to people who have the opportunity to put in a large amount of hours. I just recently dinged 100 and am beginning the AP grind on my main. Thinking about doing this on my mage alt gives me shivers.

[Deleted]

Wow you're pretty mad, sucks to be you I guess.

Good argument. Back to your Internet dragons with you if you're at 1k rating as the most broken melee in the game and think you deserve to post in a thread about PvP and be listened to.

[Zanzha]

Good argument. Back to your Internet dragons with you if you're at 1k rating as the most broken melee in the game and think you deserve to post in a thread about PvP and be listened to.

Ahh classic, resorting to attacking someone because of their rating without even checking how many they've done, I physically haven't done enough arenas to be higher than 1kcr despite having significantly higher mmr.

TLDR: WAAAAAAAh

[ComputerNerd]

This is not fair to people with alts or new players.

This is a big negative.

If they want add incentive to PVP they need to improve gear rewards so people can work towards something.

And gear rewards when the gear had a far bigger influence was causing exactly that issue you describe.
The progression problem of gear has been somewhat neutered and replaced by another two progressions.
Honor Talents and Artifact Traits.

The reward system is arguably another issue.
The core problem though is it is still unfriendly towards late starters.
No change to gear rewards is going to fix that, not with the reduced impact of it.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Good, I have a good / high AP level, so this will give me an advantage.

[Deleted]

Ahh classic, resorting to attacking someone because of their rating without even checking how many they've done, I physically haven't done enough arenas to be higher than 1kcr despite having significantly higher mmr.

Then don't fucking post on a thread about PvP if you don't PvP. Go post in a PvE thread about how you can press buttons in the same order many times without making any mistakes.

[Underbyte]

Good, I have a good / high AP level, so this will give me an advantage.

Exactly what this change provides. A shiny prize for doing nothing other than playing longer than me.