[7.3] Azortharion's Hunter Guides

[BarelyLegalBear]

The guides are only 90% updated or something like that because Blizzard decided to change MM at a fundamental level from PTR to release.

Later today things will be updated. Sims will still take a few days, because DAMN SimCraft is fucked.

Stats are the hardest thing to figure out, but things won't really change all that much. If you got 9% haste you're golden.

EDIT: 9% not 7.5%.

Oh thank fuck, glad it's not 17% because i'm currently sitting at 13%.

[Jagera]

Oh thank fuck, glad it's not 17% because i'm currently sitting at 13%.

So in our character stat screens, if it says we have above 9% haste we should start slammin down the Mastery/Crit? lol

[skiiwee29]

The guides are only 90% updated or something like that because Blizzard decided to change MM at a fundamental level from PTR to release.

Later today things will be updated. Sims will still take a few days, because DAMN SimCraft is fucked.

Stats are the hardest thing to figure out, but things won't really change all that much. If you got 9% haste you're golden.

EDIT: 9% not 7.5%.

Thank you good sir. Read your guide last night and saw 17% was the haste softcap so I was about to change a few gems to haste to reach that, but now at 9% I am golden with my 14% currently and can re-work my gear choices for NH

[BigWok]

This question is for trick shot build.

If marked shot does more damage (and cost less focus) than fully empowered aimed shot, taking the extra 15% buff from trick shot talent and the nature of patient sniper talent into consideration (or any other factors), is it better to cast just arcane shot and marked shot during the trueshot buff?

[Dracodraco]

How much less AiS are we talking about, because honestly, I don't see it as "way less"... I tried to figure it out how many exactly but the amount of GCDs (not used) and effective use of vulnerable windows make it kinda hard to predict/math out.

As you said, without logs to compare, it's really hard to figure out exactly how big the difference is. Everytime you cast a sidewinder you'd need ~6 arcane shots to make up for the focus gain

Also, just to point out a mistake you made in your post before this one:

You said


MS is still worse than AiS, because it's 275*2,7, not 1,7. +170% damage not +70% damage
So Zevrim is still awkward to have, and MS still awkward to use imho. Especially with Trickshot. Is it even more Damage per Focus?

That's fair, I forgot to account for vulnerable's base 100% damage boost (at this point I tend to assume it as being "baseline" when thinking about the ability, as it's pretty much got 100% uptime anyway), and just went with the patient sniper value. My mistake.

That being said, that obviously only holds true for the very last aimed shot - as for focus per damage value, even at the max value you're paying 50 focus for 742.5 power, or about 14.85% ap per focus. Marked shot is at 525/30 = 17.5 - and that's not even counting the fact that you spend less time casting a marked shot (assuming 9% haste, 1.375 seconds for GBC versus 1.83 seconds for a hardcasted aimed shot).

In essence, aimed at any point is going to be a bigger hit - but for damage per focus, marked shot remains king (and especially when factoring in time spent executing the attack as well). In a focus restrictive build such as sidewinders (you have a limited amount of focus due to sidewinder recharge time in any given fight), this means Marked shot has a higher value than aimed shot by far assuming you don't ever overcap focus, but it might not be nearly as decisive for an arcane shot build that has a much more fluid level of focus regen.

[Jagera]

Can anyone explain the reason why we should do the opener how Icy Veins says? Not precasting WB but using AMOC WB then TS.... some insight please

[Renley]

Is it me, or is Marked Shot hitting for significantly less than it should? I know theres armor and blah blah, but tooltip is showing it should be hitting for ~560k, and its only hitting for ~350k on a 110 crab. Maybe I just never really paid attention to how much armor reduces damage, but 40% reduction doesn't seem right?

[Deleted]

On 3+ target we should just spam multi-marked under trueshot, am I right?

[Seexy]

Question:
Does Bestial Wrath increase the dmg of A Murder of Crows?
if yes, then should I always cast BW before AMoC ?

[Turtel]

The 17% haste in the guide was to cast Marked Shot->Arcane Shot->2*Aimed Shot, it wasn't to cast 3 Aimed Shots after a Marked Shot. With the new 7 second Vulnerable window, you don't need any haste to be able to do that (although you do need a little if you include latency).

Realistically the cast time isn't what will stop you from casting 3 Aimed Shots after a Marked Shot, it's the focus cost: you pretty much need to be full focus when you cast Marked Shot in order to have 50 focus left by the time you get to the third Aimed Shot. Given that you'll want to maximise the amount of Marked Shots you cast, you'll want to cast them pretty quickly, which means you probably won't be almost full focus at the time (not to mention you risk focus capping if you're always sitting at high focus). I think sticking to the Marked Shot->Arcane Shot->2*Aimed Shot is probably more easily managed (it allows you to sit at much lower focus levels), and you still maximise the Patient Sniper bonus.

MS is still worse than AiS, because it's 275*2,7, not 1,7. +170% damage not +70% damage
So Zevrim is still awkward to have, and MS still awkward to use imho. Especially with Trickshot. Is it even more Damage per Focus?

So here are all the things that buff Aimed Shot that I can find:
- Wind Arrows trait (the very first one): +12% damage
- Legacy of the Windrunner: +16.5% damage
- Vulnerable: +145% damage (on average)
- Trick Shot: +15% damage
- True Aim: +20% damage
- Marked for Death: +6% crit
- Deadly Aim: +10% crit damage

And here's Marked Shot:
- Windrunner's Guidance: +10% damage
- Precision: +10% crit
- Call of the Hunter: +8% damage

Assuming crits make up ~50% of our damage, the average damage dealt by each ability will be:
- Aimed Shot = 275*1.12*1.165*2.45*1.15*1.2*1.06*1.05 = 1350% weapon damage
- Marked Shot = 550*1.1*1.1*1.08 = 719% weapon damage

So Aimed Shot (on average) does about 1.88 times as much damage but costs 2 times as much focus as Marked Shot, which would mean Marked Shot is still higher damage per focus (ever so slightly). Marked Shot also has the advantage that it is 0.5 seconds faster to cast than Aimed Shot, which means you can get one third of an extra Arcane Shot by the time Aimed Shot would finish, which slightly reduces the effective focus cost of Marked Shot (therefore slightly buffing the damage per focus even more).

So if we have a limited amount of focus (which we do), getting as many Marked Shots in as possible should result in the most damage. Which means Zevrims should have a very tiny positive effect if we play optimally.

As you said, without logs to compare, it's really hard to figure out exactly how big the difference is. Everytime you cast a sidewinder you'd need ~6 arcane shots to make up for the focus gain

Trick Shot's Aimed Shots deal 15% more damage, so you won't need to cast quite as many Aimed Shots to do the same amount of damage (well, 15% less to be exact), but it's still pretty close anyway. Trick Shot users also cast a bit more Marked Shots, which is a bit more efficient focus-wise. The big thing would be pooling focus for Trueshot though, which Sidewinders users have the advantage for.

This question is for trick shot build.

If marked shot does more damage (and cost less focus) than fully empowered aimed shot, taking the extra 15% buff from trick shot talent and the nature of patient sniper talent into consideration (or any other factors), is it better to cast just arcane shot and marked shot during the trueshot buff?

Since we only have a limited time in Trueshot, damage per focus is not the only thing that we have to consider. Damage per execute time is also important (you want as much burst during Trueshot as possible). Both Marked Shot and Arcane Shot (especially) are terrible at damage per execute time; Aimed Shot is much better.

[Mavick]

Question:
Does Bestial Wrath increase the dmg of A Murder of Crows?
if yes, then should I always cast BW before AMoC ?

Bestial Wrath increases all damage you do, so of course it does. Also, you should notice that Crows lasts for 15 secs and BW for 10, so to not waste a global during BW (that could be used for Cobra Shot/Kill Command) you should cast Crows first then pop BW, as Crows will benefit from the full duration of BW.

[Deleted]

As you said, without logs to compare, it's really hard to figure out exactly how big the difference is. Everytime you cast a sidewinder you'd need ~6 arcane shots to make up for the focus gain




That's fair, I forgot to account for vulnerable's base 100% damage boost (at this point I tend to assume it as being "baseline" when thinking about the ability, as it's pretty much got 100% uptime anyway), and just went with the patient sniper value. My mistake.

That being said, that obviously only holds true for the very last aimed shot - as for focus per damage value, even at the max value you're paying 50 focus for 742.5 power, or about 14.85% ap per focus. Marked shot is at 525/30 = 17.5 - and that's not even counting the fact that you spend less time casting a marked shot (assuming 9% haste, 1.375 seconds for GBC versus 1.83 seconds for a hardcasted aimed shot).

In essence, aimed at any point is going to be a bigger hit - but for damage per focus, marked shot remains king (and especially when factoring in time spent executing the attack as well). In a focus restrictive build such as sidewinders (you have a limited amount of focus due to sidewinder recharge time in any given fight), this means Marked shot has a higher value than aimed shot by far assuming you don't ever overcap focus, but it might not be nearly as decisive for an arcane shot build that has a much more fluid level of focus regen.

Well, but you forgot to include Artifact traits... and they play a *very* big role for both AiS and MS, especially the golden ones when it comes to damage/focus.

Assuming crits make up ~50% of our damage, the average damage dealt by each ability will be:
- Aimed Shot = 275*1.12*1.165*2.45*1.15*1.2*1.06*1.05 = 1350% weapon damage
- Marked Shot = 550*1.1*1.1*1.08 = 719% weapon damage

So Aimed Shot (on average) does about 1.88 times as much damage but costs 2 times as much focus as Marked Shot, which would mean Marked Shot is still higher damage per focus (ever so slightly).

Where does the additional 10 Focus cost for AiS come from, it's 30 vs 50, isn't it?

So it costs 1,66x as much.

[Jellospally]

Where does the additional 10 Focus cost for AiS come from, it's 30 vs 50, isn't it?

So it costs 1,66x as much.

25 vs 50 not 30 vs 50

[Maxie]

When you get a proc: Arcane Shot till 120 Focus, or until you get another proc, at which point you stop. → Marked Shot → 3x Aimed Shots.

I'm not completely certain of how to interpret this. Immediately stopping the AS spam as soon as we get a second marking targets procc doesn't let us do the 3x AiS if we don't have enough focus. Do we just spend the extra marked shot, get enough focus and then enter a Marked -> 3x AiS cycle or do we ignore the "unneeded" marked shot?

Spending or ignoring the "unneeded" marked shots obviously also affects Zevrim's. If we don't want to spend them, Zevrim's is completely useless on single target.

[skiiwee29]

So I am planning out my Gear for Nighthold and starting to think that the 4pc is not really worth going after... 2pc definitely.. but the 4pc doesnt seem much benefit other than like 1 or 2 focus off most of the spenders with gaining about 7-8 focus per Aimed Shot.. what is your guys take?

[Deleted]

25 vs 50 not 30 vs 50

25? B-but why.
What am I not seeing. It says 30 right here! *points on screen*

Btw, on a somewhat related note, while we are at it, how cost efficient is Volley on 1 target, considering that we'll want as much focus as possible available for AiS etc.

[PewPewArrowz]

So I am planning out my Gear for Nighthold and starting to think that the 4pc is not really worth going after... 2pc definitely.. but the 4pc doesnt seem much benefit other than like 1 or 2 focus off most of the spenders with gaining about 7-8 focus per Aimed Shot.. what is your guys take?

They'll revert, not to 50 but 25 for sure, maybe even 30. Trust me on this

[Jellospally]

25? B-but why.
What am I not seeing. It says 30 right here! *points on screen*

Btw, on a somewhat related note, while we are at it, how cost efficient is Volley on 1 target, considering that we'll want as much focus as possible available for AiS etc.

Marked shot is 25 not 30 now? Thats why?

[Renley]

They'll revert, not to 50 but 25 for sure, maybe even 30. Trust me on this

I'm thinking the same thing. Wouldn't be surprised if it goes up to 25%. I think they went a little overkill on that nerf lol.

[Deleted]

Marked shot is 25 not 30 now? Thats why?

How would I know, I'm not from the US and it doesn't say anything about them changing it in the patchnotes and wowhead still lists the PTR build MS which shows 30.

So, is it?