Volley vs AMOC for single target

[Holovik]

I know that AMOC is superior for ST, Volley is superior for AOE. What is the approximate difference between just taking volley for the enhanced AOE dmg and leaving it on for ST (as is recommended in the guide, if volley is the chosen talent) when compared to AMOC? Is it worth bringing a bunch of Tomes with me and swapping back and forth or are they relatively close where I can just choose Volley and roll with it?

For the record, I am an 879 ilvl MM hunter who primarily does M+ and pug raids.

[Xenomega]

Since volley got a 50% buff and crows wasn't touched im going to pick volley. Just going to take the hit on single target.
No more kicking myself for missing a crow+bestial wrath or waiting for BW cooldown. Also since ill be going blink strikes now and not bestial fury.
Also one less button to push. Yay

[JoshuaNLG]

Since volley got a 50% buff and crows wasn't touched im going to pick volley. Just going to take the hit on single target.
No more kicking myself for missing a crow+bestial wrath or waiting for BW cooldown. Also since ill be going blink strikes now and not bestial fury.
Also one less button to push. Yay

He's an MM hunter, wasn't volley only buffed by 50% for BM?

[Xenomega]

oops just read the title and a few words in the post. Yeah volley is only buffed for BM.
With MM i would pick on what content you do. Volley for mythic+, crows for raids.

[Coraz]

Is there any particular reason why crows would outperform Volley with the 50% buff for ST now?

Looking at my tool tip it's saying this..

AMOC - 1,497,040 dmg, assuming longer than a minute fight with no resets that's averaging out to 24951 damage.
Volley - With a 1.26 CD would be about 47.6 procs per minute, averaging out to 2,254,308 over 1m, assuming no crits at 47,694 per 1.26 sec.

I'm probably missing some modifier for AMOC I'm sure, but would be great if someone could enlighten me to that if it's the case.

[palthis]

Is there any particular reason why crows would outperform Volley with the 50% buff for ST now?

Looking at my tool tip it's saying this..

AMOC - 1,497,040 dmg, assuming longer than a minute fight with no resets that's averaging out to 24951 damage.
Volley - With a 1.26 CD would be about 47.6 procs per minute, averaging out to 2,254,308 over 1m, assuming no crits at 47,694 per 1.26 sec.

I'm probably missing some modifier for AMOC I'm sure, but would be great if someone could enlighten me to that if it's the case.

AMOC dmg increases based on your Mastery. Hence (was??) god like for BM.

[Ahraa]

Is there any particular reason why crows would outperform Volley with the 50% buff for ST now?

Looking at my tool tip it's saying this..

AMOC - 1,497,040 dmg, assuming longer than a minute fight with no resets that's averaging out to 24951 damage.
Volley - With a 1.26 CD would be about 47.6 procs per minute, averaging out to 2,254,308 over 1m, assuming no crits at 47,694 per 1.26 sec.

I'm probably missing some modifier for AMOC I'm sure, but would be great if someone could enlighten me to that if it's the case.

focus cost

[Coraz]

AMOC dmg increases based on your Mastery. Hence (was??) god like for BM.

Wouldn't that be reflected in the tooltip if that's the case?

[palthis]

@Coraz - I suppose it is. But the dmg changes based on your buffs. AMOC by default does 162% of AP *16 dmg. But this changes when you pop BW, potions, trinkets increasing the damage on the remaining flock. Depending on when you took the snapshot of the tooltip and what buffs were present / expired during those 15secs will determine the whole DPS. Better if you take a SIM reading / Skada report for that ability only.

[Azortharion]

Crows is pretty terrible for BM, actually. It does more damage for Survival than it does for BM because Blizzard introduced a mechanic that vastly reduces Crows damage for BM.

The guide will get a lot of updates in the coming week, SimCraft is so broken.

[Ceylina]

Blizzard introduced a mechanic that vastly reduces Crows damage for BM.

Care to expand on what that mechanic is because I noticed crows still on top ST

[Deleted]

The extra damage is still noticeable. As a quick test on a dummy Crows did 1.07 mill. Volley during one minute did 999k. It was one test only before I had to leave for work, but it shows the damage is pretty close and an immediate win if two targets are present.

But Crows is burst that can be reset. A 30 second fight would have Crows do more damage than volley. Timing Crows on two targets would still do more damage than Volley. Traveling around the open world where mobs have little HP would put Crows ahead and no matter the open world elites we find none live for one minute, so Crows again wins.

Where Volley seems to win hands down is the 4+ mobs scenario since we use all our focus on multi-shot for procs and don't use Crows anyway. That's going to inflate AoE numbers.

[ydraw]

What's the difference in focus cost over 1 minute? Too lazy to work it out. Am I correct in thinking that although both scale with haste, volley will use more focus the more haste you have, while Crows is always the same cost?

[Khrux]

Not a math guy, so apologies for any errors.

Volley is 3 focus per 1.6 second iirc, so 112.5 focus per 1 minute interval. (or 120 focus @1.5 cd on Volley)
Crows is 30 focus with 1 minute cooldown, so without resets its 30 focus per 1 minute interval.

Volley is 100% attack power per proc @ 37.5 ticks (1.6 cd) or 40 ticks (1.5cd)
Crows is 162% attack power over 16 ticks in 1 minute interval

Volley overall - 3750%/4000% attack power
Crows overall - 2592% attack power

Crows scales with BM mastery, but I'm not sure what behind the scenes algorithm controls this scaling and Azor mentioned there is a restriction in place specifically for BM which is presumably to keep mastery scaling under control.

[nacixems]

Not a math guy, so apologies for any errors.

Volley is 3 focus per 1.6 second iirc, so 112.5 focus per 1 minute interval. (or 120 focus @1.5 cd on Volley)
Crows is 30 focus with 1 minute cooldown, so without resets its 30 focus per 1 minute interval.

Volley is 100% attack power per proc @ 37.5 ticks (1.6 cd) or 40 ticks (1.5cd)
Crows is 162% attack power over 16 ticks in 1 minute interval

Volley overall - 3750%/4000% attack power
Crows overall - 2592% attack power

Crows scales with BM mastery, but I'm not sure what behind the scenes algorithm controls this scaling and Azor mentioned there is a restriction in place specifically for BM which is presumably to keep mastery scaling under control.

Something else to consider is crows resets if the target dies within... so it possible can be used sooner than the cooldown? not sure how to avg. that into the mix. but its worth consideration, . maybe?

[ydraw]

Not a math guy, so apologies for any errors.

Volley is 3 focus per 1.6 second iirc

I thought Volley activated on every autoshot, therefore it will vary depending on your haste?

[Deleted]

My auto shot is currently 2.5 seconds. Haste probably does affect it since I remember it being 2.4 previous the patch. I'm at 20% haste.

[Holovik]

It seems like with AMOC being worse for MM than it is for BM that volley would be a pretty good choice for most situations. Though the focus cost should be taken into consideration since an AS build relies pretty heavily on pooling up to almost the focus cap to effectively utilize your vuln windows with AiS.

[Deleted]

Ask Mr.Robot puts Volley down compared to Crows (384k Crows, 370k Volley with my current gear in BM spec). I can say that for shorter fights, be them ST or AoE Crows still wins handily. Frontloading the damage is better than having it sustained and its CD marries itself well with Titan's Thunder and Aspect of the Wild which further increases its worth.

Even with the buff I'm not feeling Volley.

[Holovik]

Ask Mr.Robot puts Volley down compared to Crows (384k Crows, 370k Volley with my current gear in BM spec). I can say that for shorter fights, be them ST or AoE Crows still wins handily. Frontloading the damage is better than having it sustained and its CD marries itself well with Titan's Thunder and Aspect of the Wild which further increases its worth.

Even with the buff I'm not feeling Volley.

I play MM for the most part so I am more interested in the MM breakdown. Though looking at your sim, 14k DPS difference with AMOC being significantly stronger for BM seems to confirm my assumption, though simming would be needed to make any conclusion.