What made classic wow better than current?

[Kyanion]

That's what I wonder about Legion in fact.

Well go play around in MC and BWL forever and enjoy it. I'll be checking out Nighthold next week.

[Heathy]

Just reading your post is enough.

That's what I wonder about Legion in fact.

theres plenty of progression left mate,

nighthold,

tomb of sargeras

Argus.

7.2 looks like there is going to be a server wide events sort of similar to the AQ gate opening, combined effort, players get to dictate what gets built first.
combined with the invasions that are what i'm guessing similar to the naxx opening event. some of the actual fun times that did happen in classic.

they are going to be keeping dungeons relevant, upping the challenge and the reward ilvl so they don't become obsolete like they were in the past.

more weapon upgrades.

i think there is going to be plenty of progression left, especially for those of us who aren't some how married to the antiquated version of this game.

[Echo of Soul]

can someone explain to me the appeal of playing an mmo that has no progression left?

Well the amount of hours required to "complete" vanilla is insane. We're talking hundreds of days /played. You can complete all the content in Legion at a fraction of the same amount of time.

Vanilla is a continuous journey that doesn't really stop until you reach the end. In Legion you can pop in and see the new content and then pop out again and return when the next content patch comes out.

[mhdoe]

It wasn't but what it did have was being new to everybody so people tend to look past the unplayable specs, server lag, days of servers being down, etc.

[Canderous1]

the only thing for me that made it better was that it was all brand new to me.

that'll never happen again in this game, so its kind of unrealistic to hold that against expansions.

it was the exact same way in eq.

[Heathy]

Well the amount of hours required to "complete" vanilla is insane. We're talking hundreds of days /played. You can complete all the content in Legion at a fraction of the same amount of time.

Vanilla is a continuous journey that doesn't really stop until you reach the end. In Legion you can pop in and see the new content and then pop out again and return when the next content patch comes out.

its subjective, the only reason why it took 100s of days was because of the bullshit rng, and weekly lockouts, combined with the fact that you could make zero progress on your character if you weren't raiding.

it doesn't matter how accessible the game is, there can exist a world in which casual players can progress along side elitist no lifers. other ppl being able to gear up doesn't affect you in any way whatsoever. unless you don't actually want geared ppl to group with and actually enjoy afking in ironforge for hours on end. because there is nothing left to do, your saved to your raid, the dungeons don't drop anything you can use, the quests aren't worth doing, you have a couple 100 mana potions and other elixirs ready for when your next raid does happen.. great times those, so much engaging afk.

[Akka]

theres plenty of progression left mate,

nighthold,

tomb of sargeras

Argus.

Not really progression, as we are all lifted immediately to the level of the raid when it's released regardless of previous advancement.
WoW has lacked progression since 3.2 and the automated obsolescence of content at each new patch.
Funnily enough, one of the main attraction of Vanilla is precisely the feeling of progression, which is exactly the opposite of your claim ^^

[Kyanion]

Not really progression, as we are all lifted immediately to the level of the raid when it's released regardless of previous advancement.
WoW has lacked progression since 3.2 and the automated obsolescence of content at each new patch.
Funnily enough, one of the main attraction of Vanilla is precisely the feeling of progression, which is exactly the opposite of your claim ^^

Well when you use such a silly definition of progression then okay sure. Thankfully most of us are in the real world where there has been progression since 3.2 and continues to happen to this day. You think people will abandon ToV the moment NH comes out? Nope.

[Heathy]

Not really progression, as we are all lifted immediately to the level of the raid when it's released regardless of previous advancement.
WoW has lacked progression since 3.2 and the automated obsolescence of content at each new patch.
Funnily enough, one of the main attraction of Vanilla is precisely the feeling of progression, which is exactly the opposite of your claim ^^

if your gear is getting better i call that progress so, we'll just have to agree to disagree, your simply hand waving, how exactly does the game not have the same gear progression its always had?

if i pick up a piece of gear that has better stats than what i'm already wearing, that is progress. it was no different in the past.

[Wewlad]

The "Nostalgia" argument runs thin with how rampant support remains for legacy servers, but I won't go deeper on where that support has led to.

I won't use the "community" argument either although it does tie into my following point.

Classic WoW felt like an actual world, and we as players were small parts of it. Our characters could contribute in their own ways, but there was far more beyond them.

Nowadays there is so much focus on giving our characters a false and unearned sense of importance, that it really takes away from the original purpose of an MMORPG. It's a reason why SWTOR didn't fare so well. Blizzard really missed the ball by placing importance on individuals (which is meaningless in an MMORPG) rather than the groups as a whole. Nefarian wasn't slain by one person, but a collective raid group. That is another reason why people who say our characters as individuals should have more importance are wrong, and miss the point, because it wasn't just one but many who accomplished such great deeds throughout the history of WoW.

Your one character shouldn't be that important, but the group they are apart of should be, and has been. Blizzard should never have stepped beyond naming our characters "champions" because that is all they are at the end of the day. They aren't really leaders (no matter what illusion is set upon them) nor singular, named heroes. They're really effective soldiers, of course, but that doesn't make them commanders or great leaders.

And that is why people who support Classic for setting/story reasons absolutely disdain the change of focus begun in WoD. Because they won't buy the illusion of individual importance that is entirely hollow and meaningless, nor stand for it. They want to be just themselves, as smaller parts of a larger story.

[Akka]

if your gear is getting better i call that progress so, we'll just have to agree to disagree, your simply hand waving, how exactly does the game not have the same gear progression its always had?

if i pick up a piece of gear that has better stats than what i'm already wearing, that is progress. it was no different in the past.

That's not "progression", that's just stat inflation. There is no progression if it's automated, and there is little content if everything but the latest raid becomes obsolete/faceroll.

---

The "Nostalgia" argument runs thin with how rampant support remains for legacy servers

People who use "nostalgia" are not interested nor even affected by facts. It's just a buzzword to dismiss arguments, not an actual argument itself - that's why it's so spammed, it requires no thought to use and is a convenient wildcard that immediately ignore everything that is said.

[Heathy]

That's not "progression", that's just stat inflation. There is no progression if it's automated, and there is little content if everything but the latest raid becomes obsolete/faceroll.

thankfully nothing is becoming obsolete and faceroll in legion, like it was in vanilla.

stat inflation, thats funny more hand waving bullshit.

i see we've still managed to dodge the question about what your doing with your characters on private once they are clad in t3 and have no progress left to make. sitting around afk, reminiscing about the old days when casuals weren't allowed epux.

People who use "nostalgia" are not interested nor even affected by facts. It's just a buzzword to dismiss arguments, not an actual argument itself - that's why it's so spammed, it requires no thought to use and is a convenient wildcard that immediately ignore everything that is said.

and your not fabricating bullshit excuses to back up your own bias. stat inflation =/= progress, fucking lol.


its quite simple really, what is the appeal to playing an mmo that has no progress left, this question has just been dodged not answered.

[Deleted]

I like putting in a ton of time and effort to obtain powerful gear and then go smash/outperform noobs with my vastly superior gear. That probably makes me a lesser person but whatever, I enjoyed that part of the pre-MoP experience. Vanilla was better for people like me who had time and energy to go out and farm for hours on end or do dungeons, PVP all day, prepare for raids etc. It's a bit different nowadays because time investment doesn't mean shit anymore. If I put in 12 hours every day for 3 months that doesn't mean I'm gonna be 3x better geared than a person putting in 4 hours every day for 3 months. I'm just gonna end up having 3x the amount of shit in my bags, the other guy is probably gonna be better geared, too, since gear improvement is unreliable. It boils down to what you enjoy doing in-game. I, at least, had more fun pre-MoP than I had post-MoP.

[Kyanion]

People who use "nostalgia" are not interested nor even affected by facts. It's just a buzzword to dismiss arguments, not an actual argument itself - that's why it's so spammed, it requires no thought to use and is a convenient wildcard that immediately ignore everything that is said.

Just like that "progression" buzzword you used?

[Akka]

thankfully nothing is becoming obsolete and faceroll in legion, like it was in vanilla.

You're just sprouting pure bullshit now, which is even remotely linked to facts.

its quite simple really, what is the appeal to playing an mmo that has no progress left, this question has just been dodged not answered.

It's been answered, but in the typical anti-Vanilla idiots, the answer is handwaved away and it's asked again. It's been like that for 2000 pages on the previous megathread, and it's again the same here. How surprising.

There is really absolutely no point even trying to discuss with you guys. You just repeat the same shit like drones, and simply ignore or dismiss anything that doesn't conform to your narrative.
Pure waste of time.

[Kyanion]

You're just sprouting pure bullshit now, which is even remotely linked to facts.

It's been answered, but in the typical anti-Vanilla idiots, the answer is handwaved away and it's asked again. It's been like that for 2000 pages on the previous megathread, and it's again the same here. How surprising.

There is really absolutely no point even trying to discuss with you guys. You just repeat the same shit like drones, and simply ignore or dismiss anything that doesn't conform to your narrative.
Pure waste of time.

I can't help but notice you didn't answer his question. What do you do when you're fully geared in a PS? Nothing? Because you sure aren't doing "progression".

[Heathy]

You're just sprouting pure bullshit now, which is even remotely linked to facts.

It's been answered, but in the typical anti-Vanilla idiots, the answer is handwaved away and it's asked again. It's been like that for 2000 pages on the previous megathread, and it's again the same here. How surprising.

There is really absolutely no point even trying to discuss with you guys. You just repeat the same shit like drones, and simply ignore or dismiss anything that doesn't conform to your narrative.
Pure waste of time.

again you didn't answer the question you expect me to go hunting for it in old threads...

in 7.2 the dungeon content is being boosted in difficulty and Ilvl rewards, it will stay challenging, it will stay relevant, there is your FACTS.

go watch the fucking blizzcon whats next panel if you want a source.

dungeon content in vanilla was trivial in t1, let alone t2. they didn't even add any dungeons for ppl at those tiers. every single dungeon became obsolete once you started raiding zg, you didn't even have to go to molten core, the only dungeon i was running toward the end of vanilla was stratholm for the righteous orbs, that was it, the only other reason to run them was to help boost guildie alts. not one of them stayed relevant, not one of them was 'challenging' once you'd cleared it for the umpteenth time.

i will admit, if there is one thing i'd like to see them do again, its another tribute run like dire maul north, that was pretty unique and had an element of choice, kill all bosses or leave them for better rewards at the end. i would like to see another take on that one day, although mythic plus is great i couldn't ask for a better scaling challenge. I love running 5 mans, it was always a shame that, even heroics in tbc became faceroll once you had t4 or t5. its great that there is challenging content again that scales and you can be as masochistic as you want with the +10>s. sitting around with nothing to do until your next raid was the epitome of /yawn.

[Saverem]

I'm doing some research and I'd like to hear your opinions guys and gals

Classic WoW wasn't better than current. People who said it was are looking at it through nostalgia goggles.

Having to put 40 people together to raid. Very few dungeons to run.

Very limited PvP options (XR or SS PvP was the only option until they came out with WSG and then later AB/AV). No arenas, no achievements. Some classes had broken talents for PvP like the Warrior and Rogue "Mace specs" which let them proc a 3s stun randomly (no internal CD!) on their targets.... you could imagine how well that went.

Wanted a mount? Too bad, they costed a shit ton (the 100% speed ones were over 1kg which was A LOT of money. I played a lot and still couldn't afford one for a while, had to settle for the 60% mounts).

Tons more bugs.

Shitty graphics compared to today's WoW.

Very limited class roles. Wanted to tank? Then roll a Warrior. Wanted to tank as a Prot Pally or Druid? Lol. Nope. Druids and Pallies are support classes, know your place!

Class balance also sucked, you NEEDED certain classes to do certain content (especially Shamans and Paladins for their buffs/utilities).


Let's see what else... Oh, best bags only had like 12 bag slots and were SUPER EXPENSIVE. Limited bank slots. No "reagent" slots. No toys/pet/mount interface. Pets/toys/mounts all stayed in your inventory. No transmogs.



Classes like Locks had to farm soul shards before raiding. SUPER TEDIOUS. Rogues had their own Poison reagents they had to keep buying to apply to their weapons (all takes inv slots), Shamans needed fish scales/fish oil to use water walking/breathing abilities. Mages needed dust to use portals.


Hearthstones had 30min CD unless you were a Shaman or Mage with no engineering portal toys.

[Vash The Stampede]

i see we've still managed to dodge the question about what your doing with your characters on private once they are clad in t3 and have no progress left to make. sitting around afk, reminiscing about the old days when casuals weren't allowed epux.

It would take me a year to achieve T3. I didn't even have T3 back in Vanilla, though I was totally against it. Cause you see T3 was like the most hated thing among Paladins because it has no melee stats. T1 had melee stats. T2 had melee stats and spell damage. Dungeon set has melee stats. T3 was a big FU to Ret and Prot Paladins. So I saved my DKP for Corrupt Ashbringer, which I never got. But like many people I never finished Naxx, and I was playing the game for nearly 2 years.

But besides taking so long to achieve T3, I would either do the same for another character, or just stop playing the game until they have a TBC server. I'm a gamer after all, and my game time is not exclusive to WoW. One of the things that sucks about retail WoW was that spending $15 a month made me feel like I had to log in or I'd be wasting money. Which is stupid, but that's how my brain thinks. On a private server I don't have to worry about such a thing, so I can come and go as I please without worrying about my wasted $15. I can just stop playing the game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Retail WoW I have to plan my attack, cause I have no intention of paying $15 a month constantly. I did this for WoD. Since Mythic is no longer appealing to me cause it's unrewarding, I plan it around finishing normal whatever the last raid content is. I don't want to experience the first or second raid dungeons since they're crap. TBC was the last time Blizzard has a starting raid that was awesome, like Karazhan. WOTLK had Naxx which was terrible, but Uldaur was awesome. But after that the only raid that was worth doing was the last raid released for that expansion. So I wait for whatever the last content patch is for the expansion and then jump in and only plan for 1-2 months of playing WoW. Thankfully WoD used gold which was worthless for me to horde, so that's what I spent to play the game. I finished normal surprisingly quickly, and even did Heroic just by pugging. I came back for a third month just to see the Legion pre-patch just to check out what they did for Paladins. Then I quit.

Some of us have no intention to constantly play a game, especially if the game is bad like modern WOW. A lot of people here want to believe it's due to Nostalgia, but you're kidding yourselves. The game has gone sour, and it's due to all the casual catering in the game. How often does this forum get a thread about LFR? LFR came out in Cata, and it's still a controversial feature. Keep telling yourselves it's Nostalgia.

[Jakisuaki]

It actually felt like an rpg that you could share with other players.