Study: Majority of muslim students training to be teachers in Germany deny evolution

[Willias]

hahah, well your idea that humans are created in gods image is 100% wrong because of this:



Now at what stage of human evoution does your gods head fit in?

I pick the glowing one.

[Jakisuaki]

So if someone not religious should teach religion as a more objective instructor, then clearly a creationist should teach evolution as they would be more objective and don't buy into the hype?

The difference being that religion can be taught as a historical subject no problem, but evolution is a required scientific subject. By your logic, it would be the same as an atheist teaching creationism as fact.

[Akka]

If they are Muslims who are dedicated to their religion, of course they would. I see nothing wrong with this because evolution should not be taught in schools ether, or creationism. Schools should stick to academics, which do not border on one's beliefs when it comes to religion or non religious.

Evolution is not a religious belief, it's a scientific fact, so obviously it has its place in school and obviously comparing it to a religious belief is stupid.

[unfilteredJW]

I wish everyone a fruitfull and enjoyable conversation. I think I have had my fill of opinions on the matter and thank you for them. See you in the next TA thread or on a similar island of madness and shitposting.

Poor little fella didn't get the circle jerk he wanted

[Brubear]

So how is this any different than all the conservative Christians who not only don't believe in it but are pushing (and having a modicum of success because they sit on curriculum boards and even will have people in the White House) to make it either illegal to teach or forced to be taught along side Creationism/Intelligent Design?

[Shahad]

Of course it is not and the argument you argue against was not presented. However the question remains why this tendency is so strongly represented in that specific group whereas the other major religious groups seem to be rather secular and accepting of the theory of evolution and its place in science.

Because most Muslims are Arabs and Arabic culture is, frankly, backwards in many ways. It hasn't gone through the transformations that western culture went through yet, so you get stuff like this.

[Runenwächter]

You are not making any sense. Seriously, you have gone off the rails.

It's clear you wanted to bash Muslims, but your points got lost in the mix. The second you whined about comparisons towards other nations and other religions, you made it clear what it was all about.

We discriminate every single day, and that is a good thing. People should discriminate, a government should not. You proposed authoritarian intervention, thinking that would somehow make people come to their senses. You don't seem to understand humans too well, it takes a ton of oppression before they submit. Until you reach that point, you are only pissing them off.When you do, they are actually less likely to do what you want, and you only make things worse. Your attempts at indoctrination and brainwashing (that's all teaching really is) will fail miserably.

You do not propose neutral legislation, as you have already called for a litmus test to base who is impacted by that legislation. The idea that you should "just teach people harder" doesn't take into account how people actually think and act. I love the idea of teaching Evolution, because that is what the evidence points to. People still have the choice of whether they believe it, or not. You cannot force someone to not be willfully ignorant, no matter how hard you try. Seriously, there are studies that show the harder you try, the more you will fail.

The solution is simple. You educate people, and you do it in a manner which is not confrontational. The more you try to debate someone who doesn't have evidence to back up their beliefs, the more they will get angry, shut down, and ignore you. What you call for will actually lead to more ignorance, and even radicalization of those beliefs. It's not about not trying to offend people, it's about knowing how to get through to people. I don't give a flying fuck if someone is offended when I tell them something. Of course, when I insult someone, it's because I know they will not learn, and I'm speaking to everyone else. Take you for example. I have no desire to try and convince you, because I know you cannot be convinced. You have a narrative in your brain, and you won't let go. I'll merely point it out for others to see. Someone once told me the definition of a zealot, it's someone who is unable to change his mind, and is unwilling to change the subject. You proved that when you got butt hurt when people compared it to Christians or Americans.

You've presented little insight apart from the fact that to you authoritarian education means something oppressive and unjust. What else can be said about this, other than that this is inaccurate and remeniscent of childish behaviour? But in turn you've had a lot to say about my person aparently as well as about how I feel. It is unfortunately not the first time I experience this kind of juvenile edgelord behaviour and it wont be the last. It will however be the last in this thread, because I would like to leave the topic.

Since you posted after I bid my farewells you might have missed that and I think you still deserve a reply because otherwise I'd be assuming that you are the kind of person who likes to trashtalk about others in their absence.

If you wish to discuss the topic further please do so, but I'd apprechiate it if you could abstain from discussing any assumptions you might have about my person in particular in the future.

Poor little fella didn't get the circle jerk he wanted

I dont really get how you could derive this from what I said unless you just wanted to shitpost. In that case you did a marvelous job. I'm sorry if you are late and wanted to contribute otherwise, I'm sure someone else will be more than willing to hear your opinion on the matter.

[Machismo]

You've presented little insight apart from the fact that to you authoritarian education means something oppressive and unjust. But you've had a lot to say about my person and aparently how I feel. It is unfortunately not the first time I experience this kind of juvenile edgelord behaviour and it wont be the last. It will however be the last in this thread, because I would like to leave the topic. If you wish to discuss the topic further please do so, but I'd apprechiate it if you could abstain from discussing any assumptions you might have about my person in particular in the future.



I dont really get how you could derive this from what I said unless you just wanted to shitpost. In that case you did a marvelous job. I'm sorry if you are late and wanted to contribute otherwise, I'm sure someone else will be more than willing to hear your opinion on the matter.

I was merely basing it off of what you said. You called for more authoritarian teaching based on discrimination. You called out Muslims in particular, and got pissed off when people tried to compare it to other countries or other religions. For you, it was all about one thing. You had an agenda, and you got called out for it. What assumptions should one make from that?

[Deleted]

How am I making it about muslims when it is you folks implying from minute one that I have some hidden agenda. You cant reasonably expect me not to mention a the religious group you accuse me to have some particular bias against. How am I supposed to address this in manner that can be understood by you or anybody?

I am probably the person who used the word muslim and islam the least in this whole thread.

So are trying to tell me this is not about muslims? Even though you were getting irritaded when people mentioned non-muslims?

Here is a quote from you:

"This is about future educators in GERMANY. I respect that circumstances might be different in the US of A in regards to christian religious fundamentalists and that this poses problems of a similar kind for your people, but in Germany the situation is different as you can see in my opening post.

Christians in my country are secular and rather pro science which you can see from the 80% rate of acceptance amongst both evangelicals and catholics."

I demonstrated to you that christian evolution deniers outtnumber muslim ones by a large margin, and yet you only want to focus on the muslims.
I simply do not believe you when you pretend that this is not about muslims. If the denying of evolution was your true motivator to make this threat, you would see the problem as a problem among all religious groups(and even few atheists). But that's not what you are doing, you are focused on the muslims who are not even the biggest evolution deniers in germany.

[Zyster]

If we have shown evolution in other species why would humans be exempt?

Lmao, no you haven't.

[Deleted]

I think Islam can be more pro-science than many abrahamic religions.

Hmm? Islam is one of three abrahamic religions, and we should keep all religion out of science. What people believe - while they are not teaching - should be their business.

[Gref]

Strange that living in Turkey, we were all taught about evolution. Deny or believe was up to anybody. But our biology teachers explained the logic, idea, concept etc about it in a very impressive way. I do not mabe teachers themselves believed or maybe they didnt and it was just their job to teach.

[Thepersona]

Lmao, no you haven't.

yeah, we have... in rodents, dogs, cats, mosquitoes...

[Ghostpanther]

yeah, we have... in rodents, dogs, cats, mosquitoes...

How so? And cross breeding or selective breeding by man is not natural evolution. Also, having old skeletons of what appears to be mice or other animals in early stages of evolution is only assumption of evolution. And I am sure you are aware of the "missing link" in human evolution?

[Calfredd]

How so? And cross breeding or selective breeding by man is not natural evolution. Also, having old skeletons of what appears to be mice or other animals in early stages of evolution is only assumption of evolution. And I am sure you are aware of the "missing link" in human evolution?

Here you go; 8 "modern day" examples of evolution and you can google them separately to study them further and as a recap:

Evolution
Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, often resulting in the development of new species. The mechanisms of evolution include natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, mutation, migration, and genetic drift.

[Powerogue]

If you believe in the bible same goes for a lot of religions really you can't believe in evolution there is simply no way to circle that square in a way that makes sense.

That doesn't stop people from doing it anyway. The Olympian levels of mental gymnastics I've seen used to fit them together boggle my mind. "Oh, the 6 days were actually just eras..." (meaning that instead of plants surviving without photosynthesis from the sun for under a week, they survived without the sun for millions of years.)

What is the muslim creation story actually? I vaguely recall it involving giants.

(Reading up on it now. Huh, clay golems too. Presumably, like Christianity, that is the sticking point: That we're not special little snowflakes hand-crafted by God out of nonliving earth matter.)

[bowchikabow]

If they are Muslims who are dedicated to their religion, of course they would. I see nothing wrong with this because evolution should not be taught in schools ether, or creationism. Schools should stick to academics, which do not border on one's beliefs when it comes to religion or non religious.

Evolution is an explicitly academic and scientific endeavor. There is nothing wrong with teaching it.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Until evolution becomes more than "scientific" theory, it is nothing more than make believe.

Is gravity "make believe" too?

[Thepersona]

How so? And cross breeding or selective breeding by man is not natural evolution. Also, having old skeletons of what appears to be mice or other animals in early stages of evolution is only assumption of evolution. And I am sure you are aware of the "missing link" in human evolution?

first selective breeding is artificial selection, nature does something akin to that (selecting organisms that are best adapted to a certain enviroment). Second, i'm not talking about the mice fetuses, evolution doesnt show there. Third, there is no missing link. That notion is purw nonsense, because every organism is a missing link between their parents and their descendants. And fourth, even if i accept that non-scientific term, you should learn that almost 100% of all things that lived in this planet didnt leave a nice skeleton, they turned to dust. We dont have all of the images on the video of life, just some snapshots, and boy, we cand do marvels with only that.
The bottom line is that creationism assumes that we're special snowflakes. We're not. We're not on the top of the ladder, because there's no ladder (the notion that we are apex predators is not the same, and if we were, our ideal number should be around 1 billion ppl)

[kail]

How so? And cross breeding or selective breeding by man is not natural evolution. Also, having old skeletons of what appears to be mice or other animals in early stages of evolution is only assumption of evolution. And I am sure you are aware of the "missing link" in human evolution?

Evolution is proven to happen naturally. Even if we disregard the current evidence to support natural evolution, common sense on how genetics work should be enough to convince anyone. Offsprings are not clones of their parents (for most species), which leads to very slow change that will stick if the new offsprings survive and reproduce.

I'm curious if you think dinosaurs should be taught in schools as well.