Legion Theorycrafting [7.3, All specs]

[Renley]

Curious, no sims with the Kil'jaedens Burning Wish. Is it that bad?

[Finbezz]

Why would split rekills be different? Did you seriously make that distinction just to have a jab at me on something so pointless?

You can't even make the "average number of target" argument for any fight, because there are other factors that play a role in your talent choice that are waaaay higher in the priority list before we start to look at make-up metrics like that.

Because they're carrying shitty alts with 20 less ilvls.

Curious, no sims with the Kil'jaedens Burning Wish. Is it that bad?

there's a lot of stuff to figure out atm.

[Effinhunter]

Hey Effinhunter,
Yeah I saw them, I would have just assumed there would me more then Apex/Mantle/Roar which is all it shows on the front page. I would have thought the boots would be a solid choice considering they didn't get nerfed.

There's a legendary section that is toward the middle. The tier section was just showing some legendary configs because some specs only really shine with legendaries.

I'll go back to a menu system soon. Is there a way to do HTML anchors in posts on MMO? Would be nice for a table of contents kind of thing.

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Curious, no sims with the Kil'jaedens Burning Wish. Is it that bad?

I'll add that along with prydaz in the next sim.

[Renley]

There's a legendary section that is toward the middle. The tier section was just showing some legendary configs because some specs only really shine with legendaries.

I'll go back to a menu system soon. Is there a way to do HTML anchors in posts on MMO? Would be nice for a table of contents kind of thing.

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I'll add that along with prydaz in the next sim.

Cool beans. Happened to get it from my cache today, messing around with it atm(replaced War Belt). Also, maybe I missed something being said about it, but legendary sims also don't appear to show Zevrims.

[Effinhunter]

No tier talent sims update

BM Three Target Talents (10k iter, 5m, No tier, Simcraft Source)


SV Three Target Talents (10k iter, 5m, No tier, Simcraft Source)




@Aettis, I'll add it. Still running talent sims.

[satimy]

Are trueshot relics worth using after 1?

[Effinhunter]

Are trueshot relics worth using after 1?

There was a huge nerf to them that reduced contribution to 8s from relics, and it actually goes down from there to 6s. These will need to be resimmed. I'll need to check with the Simcraft guys about whether this is accurately being modeled. My initial thought on this is "no" though.

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Added prydaz and trinket to legendary sims

BM Legendaries

BM Legendaries, Single Target (Simcraft Source)


BM Legendaries, Three Target (Simcraft Source)


BM Legendaries, Six Target (Simcraft Source)


MM Legendaries

MM Legendaries, Single Target (Simcraft Source)


MM Legendaries, Three Target (Simcraft Source)


MM Legendaries, Six Target (Simcraft Source)


SV Legendaries

SV Legendaries, Single Target (Simcraft Source)


SV Legendaries, Three Target (Simcraft Source)


SV Legendaries, Six Target (Simcraft Source)

[Makro]

So basically using bursting shot with the legendary bracers is only a dps increase on single target? Lucky me...

[Hiricine]

@Effin I dont mean to bring the legendary apocalypse on you but is there a reason you don't sim apex predators claw for surv aside from the fact that it doesn't drop for it?

[Sinjabusif]

Hello, what you think about the duo, boots+sephuz ? Do you have some sim ?

[Effinhunter]

So basically using bursting shot with the legendary bracers is only a dps increase on single target? Lucky me...

It's only a dps increase if you use bursting shot very minimally. Bursting shot has ~350k DPE. So, you basically have to keep the following in mind:



And then cry yourself to sleep. I had to put bursting under everything but arcane shot to see a gain.

Don't feel too bad. I have Prydaz, the legs, Sephuz, the MM belt and the freshly nerfed BM ring, so I'm also feeling like a real champion in raids. Mythic+, these all have some utility, and the bracers can certainly change the way you play in Mythic+ (though not as a dps gain).

On a side note, though, swapping to Sephuz and then using the new freezing trap on cd is actually kind of fun and very effective in mythic+. I can confirm that the Sephuz is pretty amazing for sustained AoE damage on fortified and big trash pulls. You can download a weak aura to track it or you can just use the CD of the freezing trap, since it's exactly the ICD of Sephuz, which is just perfect for maximizing.

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@Effin I dont mean to bring the legendary apocalypse on you but is there a reason you don't sim apex predators claw for surv aside from the fact that it doesn't drop for it?

Can add on next round of legendary sims

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Hello, what you think about the duo, boots+sephuz ? Do you have some sim ?

MM? BM? SV? This is not enough information to give you feedback. But there are sims that show this. Sephuz needs trash to be effective, unless you are SV. In that case, sephuz is very powerful all the time (unless they ever nerf ranger net proccing it).

[Sinjabusif]

Yeah sorry , i play MM. I actually have boots,zevrim,sephuz and vodoo. What's the best combo ?

[Nikkej]

No need to theorycraft. Its dead.

[Youn]

So, am I missing something.

It appears the best I can get is the following:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/tal...tor#YZ!0202002

I changed the API by completely removing Windburst. So, effectively removing it from my bars.

My pawn comes out like: ( Pawn: v1: "Shirou": Agility=9.98, Ap=9.68, CritRating=10.83, HasteRating=8.53, MasteryRating=10.30, Versatility=9.05, Dps=30.25 )

For me that claims to be: 430031 dps

[Effinhunter]

No need to theorycraft. Its dead.

The good news is that the specs are balanced pretty closely. The bad news is that the specs are balanced pretty closely to the bottom of both single target and multi-target fights.

There are sort of bright spots where we're not absolutely dead last--like Ilgynoth--but most of those are because fights like Ilgynoth require control and most guilds put hunters on the task of ichor burns outside of the 8 stack sections of the fight. Because hunters learned the strats, they tend to keep the add duties, despite us losing what made us particularly strong at the assignment. So, we're artificially inflated on those fights because of prevailing raid strats that had us on add duties in spread cleave situations.

However, Ursoc and single target fights? Not looking good unless the kill time is really short.

There's no sugar coating this. We're not finding an obvious silver lining here. 3 AiS in a vulnerable? 2 AiS, 2 ArcShot in a vulnerable? Haste is not a good stat for us in sims for a reason. Nothing seems to matter. MM, BM and SV are all dpsing close to each other, but we're undertuned. We should get a buff, hopefully before Nighthold because as you can see from sims, tier is not going to solve our issues. We're still going to be significantly behind on all specs (esp compared to shadow priests, mages, rogues, DH and balance druids).

[Arrol]

No need to theorycraft. Its dead.

1 days worth of logs are definitely statistically significant /s

What a worthless fucking post.

[Deleted]

There's no sugar coating this. We're not finding an obvious silver lining here. 3 AiS in a vulnerable? 2 AiS, 2 ArcShot in a vulnerable? Haste is not a good stat for us in sims for a reason. Nothing seems to matter. MM, BM and SV are all dpsing close to each other, but we're undertuned. We should get a buff, hopefully before Nighthold because as you can see from sims, tier is not going to solve our issues. We're still going to be significantly behind on all specs (esp compared to shadow priests, mages, rogues, DH and balance druids).

Even a buff wouldnt make up for the terrible terrible game play that comes along with patient sniper and vulnerable, where haste fucks your vulnerable windows up so hard. Dont know why Blizz does not fix vulnerable to be a bonus procc or something that buffs a single aimed shots or whatever. Having to watch debuff timers for small fractions of a second to be able to get the last aimed into the high bonus damage second and praying to got that you dont have to move in that timeframe is just annoying.

It just plays so unfluid, I dont even care about the numbers, it's just so antifun. Fucking class fantasy messed everything up.

Yes, I'm aware, this has nothing to do with theorycrafting, I'm just so angry about this shit, that I need to write it down.

[Renley]

1 days worth of logs are definitely statistically significant /s

What a worthless fucking post.

I mean, sure. But if you've done any sort of content since 7.1.5 as any hunter spec, it still stands relatively true. Hunters are severely undertuned compared to practically every spec/class.

[saltytaco]

Thank you for this!

[Makro]

Don't feel too bad. I have Prydaz, the legs, Sephuz, the MM belt and the freshly nerfed BM ring, so I'm also feeling like a real champion in raids. Mythic+, these all have some utility, and the bracers can certainly change the way you play in Mythic+ (though not as a dps gain).

Well at least we both have the belt . So far the only good thing I noticed about 7.1.5 is that Multishot + Belt + Trickshot is pretty insane, to the point I'd fear it would get nerfed if sustained stacked AoE was still a thing in a raid environment.