Demonic Eyebeam Build

[Rankstar]

looks like the nerf to chaos cleave was fairly bad. first blood is performing better for me. though I have no dps legendaries.

agree, played around on the target dummy before work. Chaos cleave seems quite weak in all honesty, first blood dmg buff and fury req reduction is very competitive.

[Raptrap]

Does anyone has a weak aura string that actually tracks the soul fragments? Show how many of them are up.

[ChakanDH]

For me, a 3320333 now sims at around 15k less than a 2220311 build - small enough to try it out tonight. Ironically after trying to hoard mastery gear for this patch, that's actually the worst stat for my demon build....

[Killface1]

I'm seeing a 3% difference in my sims, but it seems pretty inconsistent as I mentioned previously. I'll go through 60s of meta with 4-5 demons bites in there, and I'll go through 40s of meta with 15 demons bites and I can't even extend it. Since its behind, and seems a little less flexible because of the whole "nemesis" thing, I'll probably stick with the traditional build in raids and only pull it out for fights the healers are behind on or something with extremely heavy AoE.

I'll probably play it quite a bit in mythic + though.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm seeing a 3% difference in my sims, but it seems pretty inconsistent as I mentioned previously. I'll go through 60s of meta with 4-5 demons bites in there, and I'll go through 40s of meta with 15 demons bites and I can't even extend it. Since its behind, and seems a little less flexible because of the whole "nemesis" thing, I'll probably stick with the traditional build in raids and only pull it out for fights the healers are behind on or something with extremely heavy AoE.

I'll probably play it quite a bit in mythic + though. The healing and invincibility of being able to just yolo into a huge pack of mobs is pretty amazing.

[Dvorjak]

What am I missing? How are you people generating fury on the pull with the 3323333 biuld? You have no fury builders other than eye beam and chaos strike which both cost fury to start with. Am I derping?

[ChakanDH]

You'll still need to DBite a couple of times to get that initial 50 fury to set off eyebeam.

[Faenlyn]

What am I missing? How are you people generating fury on the pull with the 3323333 biuld? You have no fury builders other than eye beam and chaos strike which both cost fury to start with. Am I derping?

Thats why Ive gotten better results and simmed 10k higher going with 2223333. You have to sim your own build this patch it looks like. Other peoples results may not apply to you

[Dvorjak]

Rotation[/B] is as follows and works for ST, cleave and aoe equally

1 Fury of the illidari - on CD - only out of meta
2 Eyebeam on CD - unless you are about to have to move for a mechanic and won't get the full 8 second uptime
3 fel eruption - if taken
4 blade dance / death sweep on CD if first blood is taken
5chaos strike - in or out of meta, try to save enough fury for blade dance on CD if you took first blood.
6 demon's bite - to generate fury and extend the meta CD
(note) fel eruption and first blood are not as good as chaos cleave and nemesis but are not too bad either. If you want to add more buttons or complexity to the rotation and you are not trying to push the envelope then it's OK to take them.

the rotation is deceptively simple because it's all about the soul fragments and when and how you pick them up
the head and ring legendary will massively boost the dps output, additionally, since meta duration is increased by eyebeam with demonic the shoulders are even more powerful for this build.

don't be afraid to use chaos nova on aoe just to proc more soul fragments. they will in turn reduce the CD on chaos nova.

Stat weights, relics and legendaries:
The stat priority is: Crit>mastery>>>haste>>>vers
BiS legendaries are: head and shoulders, the ring is fairly good too.
Relic: unleashed demons > critical chaos > chaos vision > overwhelming power > contained fury > demon rage. (ilvl greater than 5+ is still going to be a dps increase so prioritize the ilvl of the relic)



EDIT: Because of a lot of misconceptions i've seen i'm going to add a few more things, some I added above already but I wanted to get more detailed in the rotation.

On the pull:
pre-pot> Demons bite to 50 fury> eyebeam > annihilate yourself down to 50-60, cast fury of the illidarri>and cast meta+nemesis> eye beam > begin spamming annihilate.

pick up every single soul fragment the moment it drops. it only takes a small movement to pick it up so don't over do it.

Standard rotation once the fight is going:
this entire rotation applies whether you are in or out of meta because going meta doesn't change it. use eyebeam on CD, doesn't matter whether or not you are in meta, doesn't matter if things are about to die, always use eyebeam on CD. the CD will be reduced every time you pick up a soul fragment, including ones from mobs that die. if you are in meta, it adds to the duration of meta.

Fury of the illidari > Eyebeam on CD > chaos strike > demon's bite

this is the rotation priority, I macro nemesis and trinkets to the meta CD, but I also trigger them manually just before I cast eyebeam often.

You say to use Blade Dance and then you say not to. What am I missing?

[Wardonis]

You say to use Blade Dance and then you say not to. What am I missing?

Take first blood and Use blade dance on cd in or out of Demon form. I'll update the main page more later. They ninja needed chaos cleave big time last second.

Does anyone has a weak aura string that actually tracks the soul fragments? Show how many of them are up.

Unfortunately for Havoc it can't be done. It can be done for Vengeance. If you look on Munky's weak aura thread I have a fragment tracker there

[Dvorjak]

After playing with this guild and running all of TOV and EN and some keystone mythics, I can say that the soul fragments are the biggest hinderance. More often then not, they are blending in with some other effect going on screen or behind some other melee and you don't see it. OR they are straight up land in the bad stuff.

In conclusion, the build is iffy and I don't think it is viable.

[Deleted]

Does anyone has a weak aura string that actually tracks the soul fragments? Show how many of them are up.

Am I actually missing somethin?? ppl talking about eye beam cd reduction via demonic appetite talent. isnt there a diffenrence between "soul fragment" (which reduce eye beam CD) and "lesser soulfragment" (which normally only would grant fury) ??
With that beeing said, u might have to track 2 different sorts of soul fragments.

[Zyrosis]

Am I actually missing somethin?? ppl talking about eye beam cd reduction via demonic appetite talent. isnt there a diffenrence between "soul fragment" (which reduce eye beam CD) and "lesser soulfragment" (which normally only would grant fury) ??
With that beeing said, u might have to track 2 different sorts of soul fragments.

Nope, the lesser soul fragments count towards the CD reduction trait in addition to the normal soul fragments.

[Deleted]

Nope, the lesser soul fragments count towards the CD reduction trait in addition to the normal soul fragments.

ok than there is a lil missunderstanding.. inst the tooltip of the trait "collecting a soulfragment"?, should be redefined to "collecting any soulfragment"

than another question is, now where is the difference between lesser or nonlesser? more healing? never took a look about that.

[PurpleSector]

ok than there is a lil missunderstanding.. inst the tooltip of the trait "collecting a soulfragment"?, should be redefined to "collecting any soulfragment"

than another question is, now where is the difference between lesser or nonlesser? more healing? never took a look about that.

The one important difference I've found is that collecting a lesser SF from a demon doesn't proc the 20% damage buff. Collecting a normal SF from a demon after death, gives you the 20% damage buff.

[ravell]

Tested it last night on EN HC (demonic), ToV HC (demonic) and ToV N (felblade).

My initial thoughts about them: felblade lacks AoE, a lot! demonic feels pretty strong on both ST and AoE but I feel that its doing less aoe dmg than 7.1.0 momentum build.

Demonic is pretty viable, fun and competitive build and I need more practice with it. Got the perfect RNG on Nynthendra HC and then I did 530k dps.

Even missing a lot of orbs and making lots of mistakes in the others fights (including ToV), I still made my best dps on all boss (except for Elethere where I died by noobish :B).

Here is my armory where I have 43% crit, 24% mastery, 4% vers, 880 ilvl with raddons and cinidaria legs (got the throw glaive yesterday but I guess it`s only trash now).

http://us.battle.net/wow/pt/character/azralon/R%C3%A1v/


Logs:
EN HC >> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/86PWLvcVnGzZwFj1/

TOV HC>>
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zmGgNq6Xw4t1bvY9/

ToV N >> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/MQRAj691WKad4m7n/


EN HC before 7.1.5 (momentum):


EN HC after 7.1.5 (demonic):


ToV HC before 7.1.5 (momentum):


ToV HC after 7.1.5 (demonic):


ToV N before 7.1.5 (momentum):


ToV N after 7.1.5 (felblade):

[Deix-EU]

Tested it last night on EN HC (demonic), ToV HC (demonic) and ToV N (felblade).

My initial thoughts about them: felblade lacks AoE, a lot! demonic feels pretty strong on both ST and AoE but I feel that its doing less aoe dmg than 7.1.0 momentum build.

Demonic is pretty viable, fun and competitive build and I need more practice with it. Got the perfect RNG on Nynthendra HC and then I did 530k dps.

Even missing a lot of orbs and making lots of mistakes in the others fights (including ToV), I still made my best dps on all boss (except for Elethere where I died by noobish :B).

Here is my armory where I have 43% crit, 24% mastery, 4% vers, 880 ilvl with raddons and cinidaria legs (got the throw glaive yesterday but I guess it`s only trash now).

http://us.battle.net/wow/pt/character/azralon/R%C3%A1v/


Logs:
EN HC >> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/86PWLvcVnGzZwFj1/

TOV HC>>
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zmGgNq6Xw4t1bvY9/

ToV N >> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/MQRAj691WKad4m7n/


EN HC before 7.1.5 (momentum):


EN HC after 7.1.5 (demonic):


ToV HC before 7.1.5 (momentum):


ToV HC after 7.1.5 (demonic):


ToV N before 7.1.5 (momentum):


ToV N after 7.1.5 (felblade):

You don't have ring, I could see why Felblade doesn't bring you the best.

[Killface1]

Felblade is the option specifically for people who don't have the ring. If you have the ring, you don't take felblade because you overcap fury too much for it to be as useful. Its the fury generating talent for people who don't have the ring.

Anyway, couple more thoughts on demonic: it's significantly easier to play than the "traditional" build, but seems more plagued by RNG of whether or not you get soul fragments. It can be a little punishing in high movement fights, because if you spawn a soul while moving you don't automatically pick it up, theres about a 1.5-2s window where the soul spirals off the target before it lands, and you can't pick it up until it lands. I found while chain running mythic + maw carries yesterday that if we were ever killing mobs on the run I sometimes had to run back to pick up soulfragments that had been left behind.

After testing momentum, I decided nemesis just jives with the whole build significantly better. The net effect of this is that AoE seems way higher for sustained, but lower for burst. Its slightly hard to tell for sure because the modifers this week are bolstering, so we're only 7-9 mobs at a time instead of 15-20. Not having momentum rolling when you pop FoTI/fel barrage/blade dance/glaives with bloodlet is definitely a downer, but on the other hand deathsweep hits insanely fucking hard.

I also strongly recommend getting the legendary helm to go with this build. I have it and my DH buddy in my guild (really similar skill level, our parses avg out to be within like 1.5% of eachother) does not, and he finds it a lot more of a struggle to make work. Whenever you pull 7+ mobs, you'll be in meta 100% of the time. With 12 mobs, you can just spam eyebeam and deathsweep. Sadly, RN-Fucking-G, because this build really does work a lot better with the helm.

There are a few downsides. As I've already touched on, the RNG of soul fragments can lead to some wild swings in dps. I finished 1st boss of maw at 980k dps in a minute 20 long fight in a maw 11 one pull, and then in a maw 9 40s pull with 100% meta uptime, I finished at 470k dps. If you don't have the legendary helm, it's a significantly lower aoe dps build. Movement can be punishing, and overall, it feels less forgiving to poor eyebeam timing (should I use it on these two mobs and have it be down for the 5 mobs coming up next?) type of decisions. Damage while you're not in meta is pretty awful as well. 7.1 I would average around 600k dps total in most mythic + dungeons. Single target and 2-3 target cleave feel awful if you're not in meta, think 400k dps where you might have done 700k there before.

It also feels a little less flexible for moments of surprise in terms of pulling an extra pack on accident. With the traditional build, you always have something ready to go. With this build, its a little more set in stone, which may make it harder on progression. I'll play around with it more in our farm today, but I'd think the traditional build is still going to be the go to for raiding, simcraft numbers aside, it just feels more flexible and ready to handle whatever gets thrown your way.

To sum it up:
Upsides include high end minute long dps windows (great for mythic +), being pretty much unkillable (amazing for skittish), excellent sustained aoe dps (provided you have legendary helm, I haven't tested without), an ability to tank 6-7 mobs for an extended period, an ability to tank any non one shot boss mechanics (and you can use deathsweep/blade dance for some specific mechnanics), not feeling like you're a red headed stepchild if the healer needs to spend time on the tank, and an ability to go out and fulfil solo roles in a raid that require some dps to kill a specific target while far away from everybody else (although this seems pretty situational).

Downsides include wide DPS swings due to RNG, poor single target/cleave without cooldowns, less flexibility with dealing with new mechanics, adds, and positioning, and overall slightly lower dps, as well as it being extremely important to have the right legendaries.

Verdict: I'll play it for dungeons, and test it in raids, but I expect I'll stick with the traditional build.

[ravell]

Verdict: I'll play it for dungeons, and test it in raids, but I expect I'll stick with the traditional build.

Excellent review! And I felt the same about RNG, despite my own errors and misusing of some cooldowns.

But I still believe that demonic can be used on raids. For M+ its definitely THE build! Excel in survivalist and sustained AOE as you said.

and c'mon: 50% uptime in meta is awesome! Let's pray to get those leg shoulders...hehe

[Not Againnn]

with the legendary helm and bracers ive been using momentum and bloodlet rather than first blood and nem. even with one add like mythic ursoc, i was doing more as demonic this way.

[Deix-EU]

Felblade is the option specifically for people who don't have the ring. If you have the ring, you don't take felblade because you overcap fury too much for it to be as useful. Its the fury generating talent for people who don't have the ring.

Anyway, couple more thoughts on demonic: it's significantly easier to play than the "traditional" build, but seems more plagued by RNG of whether or not you get soul fragments. It can be a little punishing in high movement fights, because if you spawn a soul while moving you don't automatically pick it up, theres about a 1.5-2s window where the soul spirals off the target before it lands, and you can't pick it up until it lands. I found while chain running mythic + maw carries yesterday that if we were ever killing mobs on the run I sometimes had to run back to pick up soulfragments that had been left behind.

After testing momentum, I decided nemesis just jives with the whole build significantly better. The net effect of this is that AoE seems way higher for sustained, but lower for burst. Its slightly hard to tell for sure because the modifers this week are bolstering, so we're only 7-9 mobs at a time instead of 15-20. Not having momentum rolling when you pop FoTI/fel barrage/blade dance/glaives with bloodlet is definitely a downer, but on the other hand deathsweep hits insanely fucking hard.

I also strongly recommend getting the legendary helm to go with this build. I have it and my DH buddy in my guild (really similar skill level, our parses avg out to be within like 1.5% of eachother) does not, and he finds it a lot more of a struggle to make work. Whenever you pull 7+ mobs, you'll be in meta 100% of the time. With 12 mobs, you can just spam eyebeam and deathsweep. Sadly, RN-Fucking-G, because this build really does work a lot better with the helm.

There are a few downsides. As I've already touched on, the RNG of soul fragments can lead to some wild swings in dps. I finished 1st boss of maw at 980k dps in a minute 20 long fight in a maw 11 one pull, and then in a maw 9 40s pull with 100% meta uptime, I finished at 470k dps. If you don't have the legendary helm, it's a significantly lower aoe dps build. Movement can be punishing, and overall, it feels less forgiving to poor eyebeam timing (should I use it on these two mobs and have it be down for the 5 mobs coming up next?) type of decisions. Damage while you're not in meta is pretty awful as well. 7.1 I would average around 600k dps total in most mythic + dungeons. Single target and 2-3 target cleave feel awful if you're not in meta, think 400k dps where you might have done 700k there before.

It also feels a little less flexible for moments of surprise in terms of pulling an extra pack on accident. With the traditional build, you always have something ready to go. With this build, its a little more set in stone, which may make it harder on progression. I'll play around with it more in our farm today, but I'd think the traditional build is still going to be the go to for raiding, simcraft numbers aside, it just feels more flexible and ready to handle whatever gets thrown your way.

To sum it up:
Upsides include high end minute long dps windows (great for mythic +), being pretty much unkillable (amazing for skittish), excellent sustained aoe dps (provided you have legendary helm, I haven't tested without), an ability to tank 6-7 mobs for an extended period, an ability to tank any non one shot boss mechanics (and you can use deathsweep/blade dance for some specific mechnanics), not feeling like you're a red headed stepchild if the healer needs to spend time on the tank, and an ability to go out and fulfil solo roles in a raid that require some dps to kill a specific target while far away from everybody else (although this seems pretty situational).

Downsides include wide DPS swings due to RNG, poor single target/cleave without cooldowns, less flexibility with dealing with new mechanics, adds, and positioning, and overall slightly lower dps, as well as it being extremely important to have the right legendaries.

Verdict: I'll play it for dungeons, and test it in raids, but I expect I'll stick with the traditional build.

There is 70K DPS difference in sims between having felblade (even with the ring) and Fel Mastery so I doubt it.
Demonic is only ahead of 222x311 build with Raddon's and still.
Ring + Felblade + DB + First Blood (Chaos Cleave with > 30% mastery and good crit%) is very very much ahead.