Enhancement: Live vs PTR (Sims)

[Deleted]

so nice that i got the ring 6 days ago.
now i dont play with HS and my retarded procc from stromstrike has no chance to deal frost damage.

well done blizz. once again you showed us that you have literally no sense on how to balance/design your classes properly.
shadow was the main example, now... the shaman gets close to this pathetic level of unfinished work!

[Deleted]

I don't know what led you to believe that the APLs being employed in Discord have been dumping MS with CL/CS but that's definitely not true.
We've been talking about dropping CL from the rotation for weeks :P

Rusah said himself that he duped BF with CL. Thats why BF was behind.

[Gunwolf]

That's our problem: we have thousands of damage sources, others have 4 or 5 main abilites and those abilites make up 90% of their damage.

Like i told you, those sim results make perfect sense. Even Purge said one week ago, that after his calculation, the talent changes alone are a 5% nerf still (16% damage lost, about 11% gained). So that's not absurd. I know about a simcraft bug, but that's no issue because my FT uptime is already nearly 100%.

And honestly, i dont care about survivals coding. I just wanted to show that a lot of classes got buffed after all those changes, we got nerfs (ret gained about 4%, we lost about 4-5%). That's it. This mostly includes just the changes to talents and makes perfect sense.

And how is anyone supposed to deliver ingame results? I can show you that Hailstorm is only 7.5%-8% ingame. Just like in the sims, depending.

Yea... we do have a ton of damage sources. It was a problem in the past for us, and they went and simplified our dmg sources... but it seems they went back on that with legion a bit with all these random tiny passive sources of damage like imbues or stormlash. But since SS/LL/BF still do a significant amount, plus our overall damage is good, I can't really complain too much.

Hailstorm does seem to be nerfed pretty hard and AS is the best choice on that tier. I dont mind that too much tho since it will simplify the rotation and let me use other stuff now.... I might even rock LS if its close in dps just cause I miss the look of those lightning orbs.

Well you're mostly right. Simcraft sims the bonus like it is worded. On PTr, it doesnt work like that because of a bug. I assume the wording is correct and they fix that bug, so that simcraft is right.

So i looked a little closer at APL and improved the string and gained some dps.

FOA is a dps loss on single target currently. At least with 4p.



So IMO, it looks like BF is still very strong, if not best talent combination (at least with SA, 4pT19 and 3 Windstrike relics). FOA looks like an AOE talent. And Tempest is still best choice with 4p.

Please don't take those numbers as proof. I just wanted to show that BF still looks strong. There will be better sims in 1 or 2 weeks.

Isn't FoA what the new guides are recommending? I am not a big fan of FoA.... that wind swirl is gonna get annoying very quick. I assume it is being recommended now cause we won't use crash lightning as much or something? I am about to log in and test out all the new changes myself and see what works and what doesn't.


I am actually kinda curious about this talent setup:

http://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/s...hancement/cp5c

Windsong, Lightning Shield, Overcharge (or maybe still Tempest), Sundering, Earthen Spike.

Its a nature/physical dmg heavy setup.... ESpike being free now makes it alot easier to use to buff the damage of the other abilities like Sunder or overcharged LB. It seems like it will be a bit more bursty and good for a single target build or PVP.

I wonder what it sims at and how it stacks up to the recommended builds..... I have no idea how it will actually perform in game but I'm bout to test it out right now once I log on.... it seems like it will be a fun and different playstyle then what we usually roll with.

[Imnick]

Isn't FoA what the new guides are recommending? I am not a big fan of FoA.... that wind swirl is gonna get annoying very quick. I assume it is being recommended now cause we won't use crash lightning as much or something? I am about to log in and test out all the new changes myself and see what works and what doesn't.

The new guides are recommending FoA because they are written assuming that you are weren't mailed all of the pieces of the nighthold tier set as soon as you logged in.
FoA is the best talent before you get the 4 set. After you get the 4 set, it is viable to take Boulderfist and drop FoA.
But you have to get the 4 set first.

FoA has gained value because it was buffed, and because LL was buffed. The buff to LL means that it pushes CL out of the rotation, meaning that we wouldn't use it to trigger CS, with any talent combination. You take CS with Boulderfist because you cast CL like six times in a fight to trigger Alpha Wolf, and that's more DPS than the 0 DPS from the other two talents.
(This is talking single target of course, for multiple targets you still cast CL).

Earthen Spike and Sundering just aren't viable right now. They don't do enough damage.

This is also mentioned in the wowhead guide.

[Huanak]

Before 4set: hothand+AS+overcharge+FOA
After 4set: bounderfist +AS +tempest+any (foa or crashlight is dps lost on single target with 4set)

[Imnick]

Before 4set: hothand+AS+overcharge+FOA
After 4set: bounderfist +AS +tempest+any (foa or crashlight is dps lost on single target with 4set)

This is true, apart from that Tempest is also better in any scenario with cleave or AOE
Which is, almost every nighthold boss :P

[MakeMeLaugh]

What about sundering after 4pc? Would it be worth to cast it every 40s?

[Imnick]

What about sundering after 4pc? Would it be worth to cast it every 40s?

No.
You only take Sundering if you want an extra stun for some reason (potentially useful if you have Sephuz).

[Ianus]

well i see enhance is nerfed... on mythic bosses it gets destroyed by every f melee spec..

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

yeah..such fun lol

[Jakexe]

I'be gone WS, As, OC, FoA. At 883 my dps seems similar, i'm pulling slightly higher numbers sometimes but mostly lower, however my handling of the new rotation is abysmal atm.

Atm I want my 4p asap. The rotation seems bad, could warm up to it tho. Happy to give it more time.

[Imnick]

People are freaking out too soon.
It's a new build so people are underperforming. Give it 2/3 days and you'll see your dps go up and things will feel more natural.
It's too early to declare that you hate how a spec plays the day it comes out, that's when your memory of the old spec is freshest and the thing clearest in your mind is how much easier it was to play the other one (because you have been doing it for months!)

Also if you went HH/OC and hate it, consider going WS/Tempest instead.
You won't use OC on much Nighthold content anyway and Windsong is much easier to manage than Hot Hand, while being pretty much the same DPS.

[Ianus]

I'be gone WS, As, OC, FoA. At 883 my dps seems similar, i'm pulling slightly higher numbers sometimes but mostly lower, however my handling of the new rotation is abysmal atm.

Atm I want my 4p asap. The rotation seems bad, could warm up to it tho. Happy to give it more time.

yeah i agree our rotation is now garbage and we got nerfed epic balancing..time go on boring ret

- - - Updated - - -

People are freaking out too soon.
It's a new build so people are underperforming. Give it 2/3 days and you'll see your dps go up and things will feel more natural.
It's too early to declare that you hate how a spec plays the day it comes out, that's when your memory of the old spec is freshest and the thing clearest in your mind is how much easier it was to play the other one (because you have been doing it for months!)

Also if you went HH/OC and hate it, consider going WS/Tempest instead.
You won't use OC on much Nighthold content anyway and Windsong is much easier to manage than Hot Hand, while being pretty much the same DPS.

so windsong is similar to hothands number wise? edit: nvm i am blind

[Imnick]

so windsong is similar to hothands number wise?

it depends on gear but for some people it was literally a difference of hundreds of dps (which is basically nothing)

[Jakexe]

-snip-.

My biggest issue right now is FoA. I hate that the button doesn't reset when you run out of mealstrom, so you have to hit it twice to reactivate it. That and i've already been asked if i can glyph the animation away.

[Ianus]

it depends on gear but for some people it was literally a difference of hundreds of dps (which is basically nothing)

do i use crashing lightning with FoA? or just foa

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

for aoe you should still use crash im pretty sure

[Jakexe]

do i use crashing lightning with FoA? or just foa

CL can still be used to farm stormbringer procs so i've still been using it. Just for dogs on ST.

[Imnick]

My biggest issue right now is FoA. I hate that the button doesn't reset when you run out of mealstrom, so you have to hit it twice to reactivate it. That and i've already been asked if i can glyph the animation away.

It... does reset if you run out of maelstrom.
There's a visual bug right now where the graphic is disappearing despite the ability still being active. I think you're encountering that and assuming FoA has turned off, when it hasn't.

- - - Updated - - -

do i use crashing lightning with FoA? or just foa

You only use CL for AOE or to activate Alpha Wolves, regardless of talent build.

[Jakexe]

It... does reset if you run out of maelstrom.
There's a visual bug right now where the graphic is disappearing despite the ability still being active. I think you're encountering that and assuming FoA has turned off, when it hasn't.

Quite right, obvious on a dummy, not so much in a dungeon.

EDIT: Also just realised lighting bolt now casts doom vortex.