What relics after 7.1.5 MA nerf for Sin?

[Demeia]

Are ppl really surprised they nerfed this? It's pretty easy to figure out that Blizz never had any intention of people ignoring all the other relics in favor of just MA. In fact, I'd have been surprised if they didn't nerf it. And I say this as a rogue that just over-wrote two much higher iLvL relics for MA. Totally expected unless you live in a fantasy world.

Well, we play in a fantasy world so that's fairly close :P.

It's a bit of a surprise because MA isn't always a dps upgrage; it's a pretty theoretical thing. It's probably even a welcome nerf--no one needs a lower ilevel because they can't get 3 perfect traits. But it wasn't announced early so no on thought they'd do it and certainly we weren't planning on it happening.

YOU were clearly not planning on it happening if you destroyed two higher level relics.

It's just a fairly jerky thing to pop on us. All and all the relics have been fairly miserable; they should have been a straight ilevel addition, helping to raise our actually weapon strength and have had nothing to do with traits.

[ymirsson]

It's just a fairly jerky thing to pop on us. All and all the relics have been fairly miserable; they should have been a straight ilevel addition, helping to raise our actually weapon strength and have had nothing to do with traits.

But 3 simple slots for items that raise the weapons ilvl would have been truly dumb and stupid. If traits augmented by relics all were approsximately equal in DPS, then the system would have been good.

[bhot]

Looks like it all depends on if you have the legendary boots or not: http://roguedpsguide.com/master-assa...ed-in-7-1-5-2/

If you have the boots 3 MA is still best
If you don't have the boots, 3 Gushing Wound appears to be the best

Of course it all changes depending on gear.

[Puffah]

Good thing i just switched out my 2x890 and 880 rupture relics.

[Nikkaszal]

Totally agree with you on their lack of communication sucking. That said, my comment was more directed at the people showing outrage that this happened at all, as if they sincerely believed Blizz would leave it as is. I should have clarified that.

I don't think anyone here was showing outrage that MA relics were nerfed. We all know they are ridiculously fucking strong. The outrage is that we were given ZERO time to prepare for this happening, because at no point anywhere did it show up in patch build notes or developer comments.

Had this been announced in an early build of the PTR, most people would have gone "yeah thats a fair cop" and used the time on Live to go after Rup relics of decent ilvl. Only now this has been pushed on us with exactly one week until the new raid tier opens. Can you imagine how much M+ farming will need to be done in one fuckin' week to hope high-ilvl Rup relics drop from the chests?

That's why we're salty.

[Demeia]

But 3 simple slots for items that raise the weapons ilvl would have been truly dumb and stupid. If traits augmented by relics all were approsximately equal in DPS, then the system would have been good.

It would have been simple but hardly dumb. Dumb was what we got since they never seriously tried to balance traits within the legendaries and I'm pretty convinced that couldn't have been done over, what 30+ legendaries. The system was never going to be balanced.

[Flurryfang]

You guys are way overdoing this. The trait was OP, since it had no limit and it was about to be broken with 7.2s +1 to all traits. This is alot better then them having to nerf the skill or the trait in total.

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Not sure why expecting this is relevant to the way Blizzard handled the nerf. If they had announced it at the beginning of the PTR(like they did almost everything for say, Mages) and given people time to test it, the backlash wouldn't have been as bad. Instead it gets stealthed into the patch with no notice, and no explanation or compensation. Unfortunately, the latter part of that appears to be the case for most of the rogue trait nerfs, as Outlaw has experienced over and over.

Maybe they just decided on a nerf in the last few days. You can't expect Blizzard to know every nerf/buff at the start of every PTR. Some changes are bound to be made in the last few days.... That this hit the last day is a bit odd, but it does not really change anything. Nobody could have changed how the outcome would become, even with a few days to cry on the forums.

[shaunika123]

You guys are way overdoing this. The trait was OP, since it had no limit and it was about to be broken with 7.2s +1 to all traits. This is alot better then them having to nerf the skill or the trait in total.

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Maybe they just decided on a nerf in the last few days. You can't expect Blizzard to know every nerf/buff at the start of every PTR. Some changes are bound to be made in the last few days.... That this hit the last day is a bit odd, but it does not really change anything. Nobody could have changed how the outcome would become, even with a few days to cry on the forums.

not "last few days"
last 10 minutes
like literally

and they were perfectly aware of how good MA was when the PTR started, at the very least they couldve said "we're looking into MA relics keep an eye out" or something

this came outta nowhere

[Flurryfang]

not "last few days"
last 10 minutes
like literally

and they were perfectly aware of how good MA was when the PTR started, at the very least they couldve said "we're looking into MA relics keep an eye out" or something

this came outta nowhere

When something like a trait/relic is miles ahead of all other alternatives, then nerfs are supposed to be coming. I think that alot of people saw this coming either for this patch or atleast 7.2. I also said that the last day was a wierd day to implement it, but maybe it took them this long to agree on a fix. It is very easy to find what is wrong with something, but actually making a fix is way harder.

So the reason why it was this late? Maybe the head of the class department said to the rogue team "Wups, we forgot to make a nerf to Vendetta. Instead of just keeping it dominating for the rest of 7.1.5 and nighthold, come with a quick fix for it."

[shaunika123]

When something like a trait/relic is miles ahead of all other alternatives, then nerfs are supposed to be coming. I think that alot of people saw this coming either for this patch or atleast 7.2. I also said that the last day was a wierd day to implement it, but maybe it took them this long to agree on a fix. It is very easy to find what is wrong with something, but actually making a fix is way harder.

So the reason why it was this late? Maybe the head of the class department said to the rogue team "Wups, we forgot to make a nerf to Vendetta. Instead of just keeping it dominating for the rest of 7.1.5 and nighthold, come with a quick fix for it."

okay then do what they did with the OL bracers

keep nerfing/buffing it every week until they find the optimal numbers

[Flurryfang]

okay then do what they did with the OL bracers

keep nerfing/buffing it every week until they find the optimal numbers

Well when it comes to the trait, it is not really the numbers from it that is a problem, just that it is alot better when stacked then any other trait and that that relic stacking kind of ruins the ability. That is why they hav needed to nerf it pretty hard as a relic. If you can get the CD down to 40sec, then its not really a CD anymore, but a semi-permanent buff that you keep up. So i think that the current nerf is primarily to "buff" all the other relics, but also to fix the trait for the future.

By saying that, there is not really much to fine tune. There is just something to bring down.

[Deleted]

so I read alot of the comments and I dont understand the pain. I personally simmed my rogue a couple minutes ago with the latest simcraft that includes the MA relics changes (as far as I know). And it turns out, that with MP and Vigor I am simming 20k higher then before 7.1.5. (I am now at 540k instead of 519k). So in the end, there is no reason for us to complain. I understand that its frustrating if you destroyed relics for MA and now need to farm new one, but seriously: My bank is full with relics I saved, because I knew they are patching and it was totally clear to me that they would do something with MA or the boots. I dont see a reason to complain - I am doing more damage then before so I am fine.

And on top of that nice ST damage buff, lets not forget that we will be even better in M+ now. Rupture is better and Vigor will also help with target swapping and applying Rupture faster. And MP also comes into favor when fighting AoE - Bag of Tricks will do more damage with MP. I see a lot of good synergy with this patch and I dont think we will suffer, we will benefit. Just wait until the patch is live and I guess a lot of you will see that rogue is even better then before (especially Assa).

The only thing that really sucks, is the the increased cooldown for Cheat Death and the higher energy cost of Feint. But I guess thats the price we need to pay, but its sad to know they changed it mainly because of PvP reason.

[Deleted]

but its sad to know they changed it mainly because of PvP reason.

They didn't. Rogue survivability in PvP is a joke right now compared to every other melee (mostly due to every other melee being ridiculous) and nobody takes Cheat Death. Only Blizzard knows the mysterious reasons behind nerfing those two, as well as the slows.

[DakonBlackblade]

Looks like it all depends on if you have the legendary boots or not: http://roguedpsguide.com/master-assa...ed-in-7-1-5-2/

If you have the boots 3 MA is still best
If you don't have the boots, 3 Gushing Wound appears to be the best

Of course it all changes depending on gear.

I don't know why ppl are so fixated on 3 GW relics when Nighthold only has 1 slot with GW, unless M+ gets some mega buff next week and start dropping ilevel 900+ relics we are not getting 3 GW relics, we are getting 1 GW, 1 Rupture Crit and 1 Envenom damage relic. The change fix nothing, the traits were supposed to be similar in effectiveness now so wed have choices, in reality what happened is that if you don't have the boots MA sucks, so were stuck with the only 3 relics with decent traits on NH, we only have a choice for the blood one as theres GW and rup crit there, the crit one is worse but not too much. Our GMs are going to love the raids rogues trying to explain why he should get this relic over everyone else over and over again.

[Deleted]

With sims of GW being so close to MA, I will definitely not switch for now. My MAs are really high (880+) and Rupture damage only drops from one boss in NH. Also the next legendary is pending and I already got most of the bad ones.

Also I think people are really overvaluing the "line up" of those CDs. Waiting dozens of seconds for CDs to line up seems like a huge waste for me, especially on long boss fights. I got the cloak anyways and will use vanish to bomb the adds (which NH fights have a lot of) with Nightstalker. Vanish rupture isn't as strong anymore.

OT: Just got an 890 MA relic from the weekly chest. The irony..

[Deleted]

Looks like it all depends on if you have the legendary boots or not: http://roguedpsguide.com/master-assa...ed-in-7-1-5-2/

If you have the boots 3 MA is still best
If you don't have the boots, 3 Gushing Wound appears to be the best

Of course it all changes depending on gear.

Yeah but a 30ilvl lower MA relic is not anymore better then a higher GW relic.
Thats not a bad change imho, your not forced to use any kind of MA relic anymore.

Just sad blizzard is balancing it with a legendary in mind...

[ymirsson]

It would have been simple but hardly dumb. Dumb was what we got since they never seriously tried to balance traits within the legendaries and I'm pretty convinced that couldn't have been done over, what 30+ legendaries. The system was never going to be balanced.

The idea of having simple holes in my weapon to be filled with itemlevel strucks me as dumb. And yes, the trait system is not balanced and i don't think anyone ever expected all traits to be equal. But having to choose between 3% dodge as a melee DPS and 5% bonus damage on your main dot is not a choice. It might have been a lot more interesting if the traits on the relics had been carefully chosen.

[Akachan]

so I read alot of the comments and I dont understand the pain. I personally simmed my rogue a couple minutes ago with the latest simcraft that includes the MA relics changes (as far as I know). And it turns out, that with MP and Vigor I am simming 20k higher then before 7.1.5. (I am now at 540k instead of 519k). So in the end, there is no reason for us to complain. I understand that its frustrating if you destroyed relics for MA and now need to farm new one, but seriously: My bank is full with relics I saved, because I knew they are patching and it was totally clear to me that they would do something with MA or the boots. I dont see a reason to complain - I am doing more damage then before so I am fine.

And on top of that nice ST damage buff, lets not forget that we will be even better in M+ now. Rupture is better and Vigor will also help with target swapping and applying Rupture faster. And MP also comes into favor when fighting AoE - Bag of Tricks will do more damage with MP. I see a lot of good synergy with this patch and I dont think we will suffer, we will benefit. Just wait until the patch is live and I guess a lot of you will see that rogue is even better then before (especially Assa).

The only thing that really sucks, is the the increased cooldown for Cheat Death and the higher energy cost of Feint. But I guess thats the price we need to pay, but its sad to know they changed it mainly because of PvP reason.

You are missing the point entirely. People are more upset that it was a stealth nerf. Nothing was mentioned, and no warning was given. It was patched in on the same day that the patch was supposed to launch. They didnt even include it in the patch notes. That is right down the fucking check list of blizzards douchebag moves.

And you didnt know shit man. You suspected. That aint the same thing. If you did know for certain, then thanks for the advanced warning! That would've been much more helpful then chiming in here after the fact saying things are fine.

[kidstechno]

Maybe I'm playing devil's advocate.

Does the nerf suck? Yes.

Should we have been notified? Yes.

But jesus it's a game. 3x MA is still good, to even people without boots. Rogues are still in a good spot. And I bet the same people bitching are the same people who will go out there and just end up replacing their relics anyways.

[Xanatu]

Assassination is so good it's making the other specs completely useless, and there hasn't even been time to change relics yet. I think it'll be ok.