What made classic wow better than current?

[Relapses]

Vanilla attracted a different community than today's WoW, and the game shaped behaviours in a different way. This means on average (operative word : average) the mentality was slightly better then.

Again, your claim is entirely anecdotal. My claim that people have and always will be assholes isn't. This is a statement of fact. What you're trying to argue is that somehow the factor of people being assholes was less in Vanilla than it was today. Since you cannot prove this without basing your presumptions on little more than your recollections (which are highly prone to be tainted by nostalgia), there's no point in continuing this discussion with you. You're welcome to have an opinion about the community and that you "felt" it was less toxic for whatever reasons you "feel" but, please, do not insult my intelligence by try to "prove" your inclinations with non-existent evidence.

[Akka]

Again, your claim is entirely anecdotal. My claim that people have and always will be assholes isn't.

Save for the part you've conveniently "forgot" in the quote :
=>
Not all people are the same, which means that some communities are better than others - if you're going to claim that LoL community is the same, with the same mentality and the same amount of assholeness than the Civilization community, then please just go back drooling on your keyboard and wait for the nurse to bring you back to your padded room.

Your claim that all people are always the same and all communities have the same mentality is just so factually ridiculous it can only be taken as a desperate attempt to grasp at straws and not recognize you might be wrong.
Claiming that your anecdotal experience of Vanilla was that community wasn't different is fine - it's clearly not the same I experienced, and yourself admit that being an asshole is more accepted today so it might make your claim shaky, but at least it's acceptable.
Claiming that no community is different than others is just comically wrong.

[Heathy]

the community was full of ppl who didn't really know how to play, the average pug was a dice roll on how many ninjas and asspullers you have invited.

in contrast i was probably ignoring someone on a weekly basis in classic, i haven't added anyone to my ignore list in years. I think the last time i saw someone ninja gear was in bc. in classic ppl would just need on everything even if they couldn't use it. if something epic did drop, holy shit that was it, every one rolling need because its freaking purple.

i'm so glad those days are finally over and the chance of us ever returning to that shit show is effectively zero.

you honestly couldn't pay me to go back to healing in classic. no sum is enough to put up with that crap again.

[Relapses]

Save for the part you've conveniently "forgot" in the quote :
=>
Not all people are the same, which means that some communities are better than others - if you're going to claim that LoL community is the same, with the same mentality and the same amount of assholeness than the Civilization community, then please just go back drooling on your keyboard and wait for the nurse to bring you back to your padded room.

Your claim that all people are always the same and all communities have the same mentality is just so factually ridiculous it can only be taken as a desperate attempt to grasp at straws and not recognize you might be wrong.

You know, repeating your anecdotal claims doesn't make them any less anecdotal.

I'm not claiming all people are the same. I'm claiming that the number of cockbags per capita doesn't mysteriously change just because the players the game attracts have "different mentalities." Your analogy of Civilization to LoL is even more ridiculous because I'm talking about two versions of the same game and you're comparing a mostly single player RTS to one of the most popular MOBAs of all time. (And please, don't even bother trying to claim the difference between Vanilla and retail is just as drastic.) But I digress. Perhaps we're just not seeing this from the same angle so rather than blathering on endlessly about the "average assholeness" of game communities I'll take the high road and leave this discussion here.

[Daffan]

Nothing. the game was simply not better.

If you played it a lot back in vanilla, you understand why it is a much better game now. If somone tell you otherwise, he did not play actively in vanilla. Its that simple.

nah too cut and dry

Linear progression is objectively superior to me as there is more relevant content for longer, as a casual. That's just one example.

Legion is of course has better rotations and other stuff (anyone who thinks classic is better in every way is dumb) but doesn't make it a clean sweep. I still play Legion but without nostalgia see some things from the past I liked.

[The Iron Fist]

One word: Community

Every decision Blizzard has further destroyed the communities and guilds within the game. The only reason to be in a guild now is if you're doing Mythic Raiding. LFG destroyed server communities. LFR destroyed casual raid guilds. CRZ destroyed servers. Mythic + dungeons (as much as I enjoy them) destroyed non-Mythic Raiding PvE guilds. WoW has basically become the unguilded soloers paradise. WoW has more in common with MOBAs and Diablo 3 now than an MMO.

[Heathy]

progression is still linear, you get better not worst. the only difference is what content you choose to focus on, but what ever that is, be it raiding, mythic plus, pvp or solo wq's, all of them have linear progression on their own.

raiding has always had the best co-operative large scale progression, today you can progress on normal, heroic, or mythic, you can progress through one tiers difficulty, or you can progress through the tiers of only 1 difficulty.

you can still do tier 1 normal > tier 2 normal > tier 3 normal

or you can do tier 1 normal > tier 1 heroic > tier 1 mythic > tier 2 heroic > tier 2 mythic > tier 3 normal/heroic > mythic.

the progression is still linear, you just have more choice over which way you want to tackle it, no way is 'wrong' and progress never goes backward, you don't need to over farm content any more and end up never getting to see content because you've spent months wasting time in content you out geared.

molten core was a joke, having to farm that place for ingots and bindings, ppl wanting hands of raggy or thunderfury, the game forced you to rerun content you out geared to the point that your raid group could probably easily do the place 15 man. that wasn't fun in the end it was just a grind that stopped you from making actual progress. lingering in one tier for way too long, my guild could have easily finished bwl if it wasn't for all the mc farming we were doing, if we could have replaced one mc raid a week with a second bwl raid, we would have made a lot more progress and got to see more of the content.

in the end hardly anyone got to naxx and aq40 because ppl were stuck farming shitty molten core for way too long. it got to the point that everything was being disenchanted, and you were only doing the place for those extremely low drops. if your not being challenged by the content wtf is the point?

its not like i don't know what nostalgia is, being a priest in full t1 and having benediction, afking in ironforge, i'd constantly get random noobs come up to me and say 'dude you look AWESOME!!' yeah there was a feeling of accomplishment, but its not like the content itself was hard, it was just the time dedication. ANYONE could have done the same amount of progress I did if they chose to put the time in. progress today is the same, the more time you put in the more content you clear, the better gear you get. nothing in that regard has changed.

[Charge me Doctor]

its not like i don't know what nostalgia is, being a priest in full t1 and having benediction, afking in ironforge, i'd constantly get random noobs come up to me and say 'dude you look AWESOME!!' yeah there was a feeling of accomplishment, but its not like the content itself was hard, it was just the time dedication. ANYONE could have done the same amount of progress I did if they chose to put the time in. progress today is the same, the more time you put in the more content you clear, the better gear you get. nothing in that regard has changed.

One can argue that this "wow!" factor was very important (aka, random noob seeing benediction), but the "wow!" effect was induced by his lack of knowledge of the game. He simply didn't know that item like this even exists. Now, you get all cosmetic gear spoiled to you before its even released on live servers. There is no exploration (and to be fair this factor was extremely rare even in vanilla, because of evolution of various databases, including addons like atlasloot and overall knowledge of common noob going up, aka, now they know what the fuck addon is and how to install it thanks to various web 1.0 resources and other players)

[Heathy]

I think its just the fact that games age, things can't stay new forever.

there wasn't much information back in the day, the main thing i remember during classic was Allakhazam which had loot lists, there weren't many addons i think i used the insomniax compilation that let you have custom moveable action bars and let you get rid of the blizzard frame. i mean today i still used a bunch of addons, there are a lot more cooler less buggy ones. xperl and ct_raid where quite popular way back when.

[Vorkreist]

Wow. Just.... wow.

Really? You really think that the only reason a product's sales are diminishing is because its quality is getting worse? It just couldn't be because other companies are putting out more/better games, while this product's quality remains the same? It just couldn't be that while the quality remained the same, people's interests just moved elsewhere?

Seriously, the irony and levels of delusion displayed in your statement are baffling.

If you are not a rabid fanboy and you take a hard look around you realize there is no real drop in demand for a quality mmo.
How did the interests moved elsewhere when at least 10 mil people come back to try every expansion hoping and dreaming it might not be as atrociously designed as the previous one that made them and all their friends quit in disgust ?
The quality of the game is not an issue right? Thats why FF XIV had for a time more active players than Wod. Thats why tons of people go and look for private servers of older expansions.
Today retail wow is shit and thats the major reason why people are unsubbing faster than worse wod periods.

[Charge me Doctor]

I think its just the fact that games age, things can't stay new forever.

there wasn't much information back in the day, the main thing i remember during classic was Allakhazam which had loot lists, there weren't many addons i think i used the insomniax compilation that let you have custom moveable action bars and let you get rid of the blizzard frame. i mean today i still used a bunch of addons, there are a lot more cooler less buggy ones. xperl and ct_raid where quite popular way back when.

You used these databases when you knew what you are looking for. If you don't even know that item like benediction exists - you don't look it up. Addon-built-in database was great for that, since you could filter shit way easier than on the website.

- - - Updated - - -

If you are not a rabid fanboy and you take a hard look around you realize there is no real drop in demand for a quality mmo.
How did the interests moved elsewhere when at least 10 mil people come back to try every expansion hoping and dreaming it might not be as atrociously designed as the previous one that made them and all their friends quit in disgust ?
The quality of the game is not an issue right? Thats why FF XIV had for a time more active players than Wod. Thats why tons of people go and look for private servers of older expansions.
Today retail wow is shit and thats the major reason why people are unsubbing faster than worse wod periods.

MMOs are time-consuming and not very rewarding for time spent, dota-like games (which because popular exactly when WoW started declining) leeched a lot of subs from WoW, since they are easier to get into (no need of mindless grind) and usually give much more instant gratification than WoW or other MMO. So, he kinda right, it's not that much of a WoWs fault that subs started declining - it's the whole environment and attitude of "i'm too busy and don't have an opportunity or wish to spend 6 non-stop hours raiding 3 times per week, so i'm better playing dota than this".

I'm using dota just as an example of a game that doesn't require as much dedication as WoW does but gives back instant satisfaction.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

What made it better? Simple. Their wasn't a choice. Whenever people have a choice the odds are they will make one. Then for some stupid reason feel it is very important to fight to the bitter death over something as stupid as which video game you like best.

[Heathy]

I have to admit I didn't use atlas loot that often, i think i did have it installed during TBC, but i don't think i bothered keeping it up to date or using it that often, I have always mainly preferred going in blind, its like boss tactics, i didn't really care much for watching videos on boss fights, i felt like it spoilt a good portion of the surprise

then again for years now no boss video really helps you get a feel for the fight when your a healer, the damage is always dynamic and different ppl take damage on every fight and on every attempt, so the only real way to learn an encounter as a healer is to just do it and try your best.

[Charge me Doctor]

I have to admit I didn't use atlas loot that often, i think i did have it installed during TBC, but i don't think i bothered keeping it up to date or using it that often, I have always mainly preferred going in blind, its like boss tactics, i didn't really care much for watching videos on boss fights, i felt like it spoilt a good portion of the surprise

then again for years now no boss video really helps you get a feel for the fight when your a healer, the damage is always dynamic and different ppl take damage on every fight and on every attempt, so the only real way to learn an encounter as a healer is to just do it and try your best.

I don't recall watching boss fight videos either, it was usually community websites with discussions of various strategies (which often were quite questionable). We used to spy on other guild forums for strats, lol. To be fair, speaking of raids, i went blind into MC without any issues, same with BWL (up to Chromagus, because most of our best players left at this point and, you know, we had to actually pull our weight), but then finding strategies because a rule of the thumb for me(since it was way easier than coming up with our own strats, but in dire lack of them we could come up with something).

Also i disagree about your healing example, it's quite predictable in current raids, and with help of DBM or similar shit you can easily prepare for "well there will be 3 spheres in 5 seconds better be ready to top people off"

[Deleted]

Discover a new game, that's what was better. Discovery of a brand new and polished for his time, game. And nostalgia of a younger lifestyle and era for most.

[Dazu]

If you are not a rabid fanboy and you take a hard look around you realize there is no real drop in demand for a quality mmo.
How did the interests moved elsewhere when at least 10 mil people come back to try every expansion hoping and dreaming it might not be as atrociously designed as the previous one that made them and all their friends quit in disgust ?
The quality of the game is not an issue right? Thats why FF XIV had for a time more active players than Wod. Thats why tons of people go and look for private servers of older expansions.
Today retail wow is shit and thats the major reason why people are unsubbing faster than worse wod periods.

Any proof of these mass quitting numbers you are claiming?

WoD was crap, the only thing good in it was gold making and raids. I quit when I left my guild and found nothing worth doing except gold farming.

Legion im enjoying. Probably my most enjoyed expansion since TBC. What ive found though is my excitement is less each expansion, not because its bad or anything but purely because theres little new they can add which hasnt been done before. 5mans for example have different trash or mechanics, but its still pull group, kill group and make way to the boss, kill boss and get loot. Aside from BRD pretty much every 5man has been similar in that its just a path to the end boss. So of course seeing Court of Stars isnt going to be as exciting as that first Deadmines run. But I still enjoy it. Most people who think Vanilla or any other expansion is best, is just thinking because they still have the new exciting feeling when they were playing which you can never get again really.

[Deleted]

Its only someone's tastes that make vanilla better or worse. Pick any plus of vanilla or retail and there is a lot of players who consider that a minus instead. There is nothing in which vanilla is objectively worse and nothing in which it is objectively better. Every feature, every aspect, every asset is both loved and hated by anyone. I personally love retail and I will never touch vanilla without serious upgrades. That doesn't mean I hate vanilla. It's just not for me... I'd miss all those little things like flying, collections, achievments, LFR/LFG,etc...

[voidillusion]

Its only someone's tastes that make vanilla better or worse. Pick any plus of vanilla or retail and there is a lot of players who consider that a minus instead. There is nothing in which vanilla is objectively worse and nothing in which it is objectively better. Every feature, every aspect, every asset is both loved and hated by anyone. I personally love retail and I will never touch vanilla without serious upgrades. That doesn't mean I hate vanilla. It's just not for me... I'd miss all those little things like flying, collections, achievments, LFR/LFG,etc...

You should be lynched for bringing logic to this place.... just saying...

[Akka]

You know, repeating your anecdotal claims doesn't make them any less anecdotal.

Pot, meet kettle. You're repeating the same argument ("assholery stays the same always everywhere") even when basic logic proves it's an absurd reasoning.

I'm not claiming all people are the same. I'm claiming that the number of cockbags per capita doesn't mysteriously change just because the players the game attracts have "different mentalities."

If not all people are the same, then groups of people can definitely have very varying mentalities. That's just basic logic. Change the people in a group, you'll change the mentality.
If an activity attracts people who like to jokes, it will have a higher amount of jokers than an activity which attracts serious people. Again, basic logic.
As such it's totally possible that the community of WoW 10 years before was very different than the community today, because the game changed and it's attractive to different people.

[voidillusion]

The concept that a given game, with given characteristics, draws a group of player with specific characteristics also is difficult to grasp.