Experts worried after Hundreds of neo-Nazis have 'gone underground' in Germany

[Slant]

You highlighted the part where I said the majority were not refugees and then said that claim was 'absolutely fake', so it is clear you were talking about the bolded part, i.e. 'though the majority are not refugees'.

I made nothing like a claim that '60% come to commit terror', I merely echoed the statement from a European Commission official citing an EU border agency. It is for this sort of reason that broadcasters such as the BBC typically refer to it as a 'migrant crisis', rather than a 'refugee crisis'.

At least someone knows the difference. This forum had me really confused for a few months.

From a British perspective, it probably even is a migrant crisis, considering those guys at Calais.

[primalmatter]

cant post those videos? why is that. Shows truck terror attacks

Cant post gore even if they should see it.

[Dextroden]

If you actually pay attention, you'll notice that the Government's main goal is to handle the situation and deal with it instead of posting Tweets about how big their ego is like other leaders seem to prefer. What do you want them to do? Seriously, do you actually want Germany to go full defense mode and get medieval on the Middle East? What is it that you actually think Germany should do? Just take the biggest badass shovel of all time and shovel refugees into the mediterranean?

It's not that I don't understand where you lot are coming from. It's more that I'm puzzled at how little thought goes into these posts.

"We fucked up."

"Racism is bad, but we overstated how much is actually racism."

"There is not an army of Nazis waiting to pop out and take over."

"We're going to personally house the refugees since we let them in."

Things like that might help. Because I'm pretty sure the government views itself as blameless.

[Slant]

Cant post gore even if they should see it.

Posting gore doesn't validate the argument. It just shows that some people have truly sick fetishes. We're all well aware of the attacks. I have friends with children living in Berlin that almost went to that market on that night. Posting a video about it doesn't somehow convince me it's more of a threat than it already is. As for video postings, I win anyway. Call me back once IS has killed 6 million people. For now, I'll consider "returning to the old ways" as the bigger threat.

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"We fucked up."

"Racism is bad, but we overstated how much is actually racism."

"There is not an army of Nazis waiting to pop out and take over."

"We're going to personally house the refugees since we let them in."

Things like that might help. Because I'm pretty sure the government views itself as blameless.

Erm, just yesterday the Minister of the Interior decided to crack down on potential terrorists, enable faster deportation and incarceration if that is not possible. You see how you're just talking about empty phrases and I'm talking about the Government implementing reasonable action instead. I think what they're doing is far more productive than what you want them to do.

What do you think? Should we get ourselves a Trump that talks big but can't do any of what he says?

[Dextroden]

Posting gore doesn't validate the argument. It just shows that some people have truly sick fetishes. We're all well aware of the attacks. I have friends with children living in Berlin that almost went to that market on that night. Posting a video about it doesn't somehow convince me it's more of a threat than it already is. As for video postings, I win anyway. Call me back once IS has killed 6 million people. For now, I'll consider "returning to the old ways" as the bigger threat.

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Erm, just yesterday the Minister of the Interior decided to crack down on potential terrorists, enable faster deportation and incarceration if that is not possible. You see how you're just talking about empty phrases and I'm talking about the Government implementing reasonable action instead. I think what they're doing is far more productive than what you want them to do.

What do you think? Should we get ourselves a Trump that talks big but can't do any of what he says?

You guys already have that. They promised no one would notice anything, no crimes would increase and they'd fix the Syria situation and have the refugees back in a few years.

And then reality set in.

[primalmatter]

Posting gore doesn't validate the argument. It just shows that some people have truly sick fetishes. We're all well aware of the attacks. I have friends with children living in Berlin that almost went to that market on that night. Posting a video about it doesn't somehow convince me it's more of a threat than it already is. As for video postings, I win anyway. Call me back once IS has killed 6 million people. For now, I'll consider "returning to the old ways" as the bigger threat.

- - - Updated - - -



Erm, just yesterday the Minister of the Interior decided to crack down on potential terrorists, enable faster deportation and incarceration if that is not possible. You see how you're just talking about empty phrases and I'm talking about the Government implementing reasonable action instead. I think what they're doing is far more productive than what you want them to do.

What do you think? Should we get ourselves a Trump that talks big but can't do any of what he says?

Where are you getting the number 6 million from?

[Mehrunes]

I like how the interviewer says "perception that the government can't protect you" as if the EU hasn't given anyone any reason to think that they're incompetent.

1. EU isn't the government or even a government.
2. The refugee influx is on Germany, not EU. EU mechanisms have been used only after the fact, to redistribute the refugees.
3. Protection of citizens is up to the member states to begin with, EU powers in the area are very limited.

Depends how you define left. I don't mean it as an absolutely definition, but Germany was/is liberal, had a lot of socialist elements, supported the EU, open borders, committed to refugee intake, etc. etc.

I'm sure they have parties far further to the left, but they're certainly leftist. I'm from Norway, even our right-wing parties are leftist by most standards. If I'm describing our politics in a general and international sense, I'd call them left-wing.

None of which are exclusively left wing things. There are many pro-EU right wing parties and some Eurosceptic left wing parties. Liberalism is neither here nor there as it means a lot of different things. Germany's socialist elements under Merkel are mostly related to welfare state and that concept in Europe originates from things like Christian Democrats or Otto von Bismarck, which aren't exactly the staples of left wing thought. Germany has open borders only in relation to Schengen Area, which just like EU in general, isn't an intrinsic aspect of left-right divide. And finally, refugees. Welp, treatment of refugees also was touched upon by Christian Democrats and modern European right wing parties aren't against refugees in general either. Most of EU right wing governments made it very clear they are willing to accept refugees as long as they aren't filthy Muslims bringing plague and shit. To the point that Poland even conjured up a million refugees from Ukraine they supposedly took to show how pro-refugees they are, increasing the actual number five-hundred-thousandfold.

1. Europe has native far right extremism under control after a brutal war.

Fast forward 70 years...

2. Europe lets in a large group of people as refugees, though the majority are not refugees, that proceed to commit terrorist acts, rapes, large scale sexual assaults, etc.

3. European authorities fail to control this and cover up problems.

4. European natives start to go further right in order to combat this.

5. Europe starts to lose control of native far right extremism.


Sort out 2 by not repeating 3, then the oxygen of support will be cut off from 4 and 5 won't happen. Alternatively just focus on 5 and watch far right extremism get out of hand.

And in case the planets align and right wing extremism does gain power, what the hell do these brilliant people expect it to combat things with? European legislatures made very sure to take far right extremism's favorite tools away after the war. Unless the planets align so hard that the extremists gain supermajority to change constitutions, they won't achieve squat. Making the people going to neo-Nazis for solace against the filthy Muslims nothing but reactionary morons that have not even a shred of an idea of what they are doing and are only acting on feels. And just like Trump or Brexit voters, their feels make them vote against their own interests anyway, because in case the neo-Nazis do gain the power to do what they want to do, they won't stop at shitting on the refugees alone.

[primalmatter]

1. EU isn't the government or even a government.
2. The refugee influx is on Germany, not EU. EU mechanisms have been used only after the fact, to redistribute the refugees.
3. Protection of citizens is up to the member states to begin with, EU powers in the area are very limited.




None of which are exclusively left wing things. There are many pro-EU right wing parties and some Eurosceptic left wing parties. Liberalism is neither here nor there as it means a lot of different things. Germany's socialist elements under Merkel are mostly related to welfare state and that concept in Europe originates from things like Christian Democrats or Otto von Bismarck, which aren't exactly the staples of left wing thought. Germany has open borders only in relation to Schengen Area, which just like EU in general, isn't an intrinsic aspect of left-right divide. And finally, refugees. Welp, treatment of refugees also was touched upon by Christian Democrats and modern European right wing parties aren't against refugees in general either. Most of EU right wing governments made it very clear they are willing to accept refugees as long as they aren't filthy Muslims bringing plague and shit. To the point that Poland even conjured up a million refugees from Ukraine they supposedly took to show how pro-refugees they are, increasing the actual number five-hundred-thousandfold.




And in case the planets align and right wing extremism does gain power, what the hell do these brilliant people expect it to combat things with? European legislatures made very sure to take far right extremism's favorite tools away after the war. Unless the planets align so hard that the extremists gain supermajority to change constitutions, they won't achieve squat. Making the people going to neo-Nazis for solace against the filthy Muslims nothing but reactionary morons that have not even a shred of an idea of what they are doing and are only acting on feels. And just like Trump or Brexit voters, their feels make them vote against their own interests anyway, because in case the neo-Nazis do gain the power to do what they want to do, they won't stop at shitting on the refugees alone.

They would just change the language of the laws used against them now. The orginzations are already established and in place.

[Mehrunes]

Posting gore doesn't validate the argument. It just shows that some people have truly sick fetishes. We're all well aware of the attacks. I have friends with children living in Berlin that almost went to that market on that night. Posting a video about it doesn't somehow convince me it's more of a threat than it already is. As for video postings, I win anyway. Call me back once IS has killed 6 million people. For now, I'll consider "returning to the old ways" as the bigger threat.

IS wouldn't be anywhere close to a tie at that point anyway, let alone the bigger threat. There are other victims of Nazi Germany than the Jews. Why do people conflate the total number of victims with the victims of just Holocaust.

[unbound]

Just today I heard on the radio while driving to work that there's more people applying for self defense courses, obtaining weapon permissions, buying defensive tools like pepper sprays and so on than ever in German history. I might know the reasons for that, do you?

The reality is due to fear-mongering.

This thread is quickly filling with "the refugees are jam-packed with terrorists" nonsense. The vast majority of terrorist attacks in EU over the past few years has been by EU citizens, not refugees...but why let reality impinge on a fanciful fear-mongering tale...

[Deleted]

No, I'm not claiming anything - you however basically claim the 60% come to commit terror.

How is the reading comprehension wirking out for you?

[Slant]

You guys already have that. They promised no one would notice anything, no crimes would increase and they'd fix the Syria situation and have the refugees back in a few years.

And then reality set in.

They never promised any of that. What they promised is that this wouldn't bring down German society as many idiots claimed. It didn't. What they said was that we could manage (or cope, if you prefer that translation). And we are. What they promised is they would see that public order and safety is maintained (you know, the actual task of the police), and it is. Just because an attack happens doesn't mean Germany goes down the drain. It just means an attack happened and people died tragically. Nothing less, but nothing more.

[Mehrunes]

They would just change the language of the laws used against them now. The orginzations are already established and in place.

Them not being branded by hate crime laws doesn't magically give them the power to "combat the problem" the way they have wet dreams about.

[Deleted]

The reality is due to fear-mongering.

This thread is quickly filling with "the refugees are jam-packed with terrorists" nonsense. The vast majority of terrorist attacks in EU over the past few years has been by EU citizens, not refugees...but why let reality impinge on a fanciful fear-mongering tale...

There's a worrying amount of shady people among the refugees because there's no way to do proper background checks on them if they come from a wartorn country.

[Slant]

Where are you getting the number 6 million from?

Wow, you really need to learn a bit about German history before taking part in these discussions.

[Deleted]

Better than your spelling it seems.

Yeah. Typing on phone. Way to go making remarks about phobe spelling being off.

[Shibito]

Good ol tennisface threads.

[Kalis]

At least someone knows the difference. This forum had me really confused for a few months.

From a British perspective, it probably even is a migrant crisis, considering those guys at Calais.

When you refer to it in a general sense, you can call it the refugee crisis, as that is what it is most commonly known as, but if you are being technical you can't call them all refugees, as they are not and the BBC is going to play it safe.

English doesn't always require complete accuracy, understandability is often more important.

And in case the planets align and right wing extremism does gain power, what the hell do these brilliant people expect it to combat things with? European legislatures made very sure to take far right extremism's favorite tools away after the war. Unless the planets align so hard that the extremists gain supermajority to change constitutions, they won't achieve squat. Making the people going to neo-Nazis for solace against the filthy Muslims nothing but reactionary morons that have not even a shred of an idea of what they are doing and are only acting on feels. And just like Trump or Brexit voters, their feels make them vote against their own interests anyway, because in case the neo-Nazis do gain the power to do what they want to do, they won't stop at shitting on the refugees alone.

We'll cross that bridge when/if we come to it.

You say the far right are a threat, but for the majority that is only a potential threat, Islamic extremism is in the here and now and it doesn't give a shit if you are a Christian, Muslim, man, woman, black, white or other.

The far right on the other hand tend to have very specific groups they dislike and if you don't fit into one of them, then you are pretty safe. You know that 'First they came for the Socialists...' quote? Well they never came for the likes of me and weren't going to either.

[Dextroden]

IS wouldn't be anywhere close to a tie at that point anyway, let alone the bigger threat. There are other victims of Nazi Germany than the Jews. Why do people conflate the total number of victims with the victims of just Holocaust.

Because only the Jew kill count matters.

/s

[primalmatter]

IS wouldn't be anywhere close to a tie at that point anyway, let alone the bigger threat. There are other victims of Nazi Germany than the Jews. Why do people conflate the total number of victims with the victims of just Holocaust.

Because they are really only taught about the holocaust in public schools. Worse they tend to use old propaganda rather then historical evidence.. the six million number was taken from a unsourced news paper headline. Offical records put the number a bit above 250,000 and given the logistics involved it seems like the more reasonable estimate.

Not trying to down play it but your average joe really doesn't know much more about world war two then "da nazis are bad key".

World war two is kind of a weird example of the winners write the books. The allies massacred far more non combatants then the nazis. Hell out of the three major powers (allies,soviet,and nazi forces ) the nazi were the most humane by far.