1. #601
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel SnackyCakes View Post
    Maybe I'm just not a bad player, get good scrub.

    Infracted
    Okay. How did you get infracted and yet that other dumbass got away with posting a wall of text saying how full of sh*t you are?
    Do your job, mods!

  2. #602
    Deleted
    I played 1.12 a while ago (this was new nosta server) I was really really impressed with spirit of community and gameplay itself.. Sure there are few grind and bots and spam bot here and there, but like always people who run the show need to grow some balls and cleanse them with easy perma ban solution.

    What I took from it:

    1. People actually care at vanilla servers (they profoundly helpful at everything, there is some human bond going on It's amazing to be part of it)
    2. Everything matters at the game, it's amazing to see when you progress with your character all the things you do actually helps your character to grow, also it's fun to see both primary and secondary professions actually working!!!
    3. There are no unimportant things at the game, you are fucking A when you get that blue or even green upgrade.
    4 Quest matters, grinding currency matters, farming in general is important.
    5 Various strategies involved not just to progress further, but also when you leveling.

    Current game is great but it has its weaknesses, to me legion is totally different mmo when comparing.

    At legion:

    1 Very immature community (this instant gratification and autism mindset at everything is in the game now days)
    2 Groups rush and don't care interacting with each other (mainly because of silent bots infested LFR/LFD a while ago they sure they can't speak)
    3 Game is just a mindless lets get to max char asap and no pit stops, also there are no actual farming involved (you don't grind for pots, or that item from instance or gold in general)
    4 Blizzard took care of everything, introduced heirlooms and took step further with character boost.

    I'm not a hater, and I enjoy some aspects of the legion, but these are two separately different games for me.

  3. #603
    Quote Originally Posted by hmzlol View Post
    1 Very immature community (this instant gratification and autism mindset at everything is in the game now days)
    You complain about immaturity and then label them as autistic? Pot, meet kettle!

  4. #604
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkguyver2020 View Post
    You complain about immaturity and then label them as autistic? Pot, meet kettle!
    I don't complain

    Word Autistic is merely a observation, it doesn't come from place to ridicule other people.

  5. #605
    Field Marshal
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Maine - USA
    Posts
    55
    The community.

  6. #606
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    21,866
    Quote Originally Posted by truckboattruck View Post
    the reason they stops showing sub numbers is because they dropped and gave even more credence to the notion that the game sucks now
    ....so yes
    And you honestly believe that the sole reason WoW lost subs is because you think the game quality dropped? Really? You honestly can't be that dishonest. You're dismissing all other possibilities, like more competition in the gaming market and players' interests changing, because... it supports your narrative, I guess.

    You're not even comparing WoW to other games, which would make your attempt at argumentation slightly less nonsensical, but you're not. You're comparing it to a version of the game that is 12+ years old. WoW today is objectively better than before: better graphics, better game mechanics, less bugs, better accessibility, better balance, more classes, more races, more variety, etc.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Fist View Post
    One word: <snip>
    I was half-way writing a point-per-point reply to your post, when I realized that your post is made solely of grossly exaggerations in all of its points, with none of it being true. Communities still exist. So do casual raiding guilds. CRZ didn't 'destroy servers' (I still want to know how people can even think that), and Mythic+ dungeons did not kill pve guilds.

    If "communities" died, it's because they killed themselves, not because of any of Blizzard's actions.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  7. #607
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Computer Chair
    Posts
    2,763
    Quote Originally Posted by Heathy View Post
    progression is still linear, you get better not worst. the only difference is what content you choose to focus on, but what ever that is, be it raiding, mythic plus, pvp or solo wq's, all of them have linear progression on their own.

    raiding has always had the best co-operative large scale progression, today you can progress on normal, heroic, or mythic, you can progress through one tiers difficulty, or you can progress through the tiers of only 1 difficulty.

    you can still do tier 1 normal > tier 2 normal > tier 3 normal

    or you can do tier 1 normal > tier 1 heroic > tier 1 mythic > tier 2 heroic > tier 2 mythic > tier 3 normal/heroic > mythic.

    the progression is still linear, you just have more choice over which way you want to tackle it, no way is 'wrong' and progress never goes backward, you don't need to over farm content any more and end up never getting to see content because you've spent months wasting time in content you out geared.

    molten core was a joke, having to farm that place for ingots and bindings, ppl wanting hands of raggy or thunderfury, the game forced you to rerun content you out geared to the point that your raid group could probably easily do the place 15 man. that wasn't fun in the end it was just a grind that stopped you from making actual progress. lingering in one tier for way too long, my guild could have easily finished bwl if it wasn't for all the mc farming we were doing, if we could have replaced one mc raid a week with a second bwl raid, we would have made a lot more progress and got to see more of the content.

    in the end hardly anyone got to naxx and aq40 because ppl were stuck farming shitty molten core for way too long. it got to the point that everything was being disenchanted, and you were only doing the place for those extremely low drops. if your not being challenged by the content wtf is the point?

    its not like i don't know what nostalgia is, being a priest in full t1 and having benediction, afking in ironforge, i'd constantly get random noobs come up to me and say 'dude you look AWESOME!!' yeah there was a feeling of accomplishment, but its not like the content itself was hard, it was just the time dedication. ANYONE could have done the same amount of progress I did if they chose to put the time in. progress today is the same, the more time you put in the more content you clear, the better gear you get. nothing in that regard has changed.
    The progression now is not linear. I can Netflix AOE down mythic 4's and have 860 item level in <3 days of hitting 110, then spam mythic 7's with friends/randoms, trade loot and get even higher no problem. Crafting doesn't even make sense in this game, and the raids are either skip-able or made trivial with overgearing. (I'm not saying you should have to do mythic EN, just at least something before moving up the IlvL chain)

    I personally don't care about the difficulty argument of classic/bc so feel free to crap all over it. Yes it was easier then now, but linear progression as an idea is all I care about. I will be the first person to say 40 man size was crap and MC was netflix-capable junk.

    Now we get;
    Crafting? Rubbish
    Early raids? Already made rubbish
    Half the content? Irrelevant

    Returning to expac late? A casual that never did anything? Just hit 110 late? GG 50-90% of the content has been made obsolete/trivial, enjoy grinding that final tier forever as everything else is a waste of time. Reminds me of WoD when everyone got full conquest PvP gear/Baleful then complained there was nothing to do.

    ps. People only got stuck at Molten Core and places like Karazhan because you needed so many people to actually raid. If Flex existed, way, way more people would have seen AQ40/Naxx. There were so many reasons old progression sucked for most people, but linear progression was not one of them.
    Last edited by Daffan; 2017-01-11 at 12:38 PM.
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.

  8. #608
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And you honestly believe that the sole reason WoW lost subs is because you think the game quality dropped? Really? You honestly can't be that dishonest. You're dismissing all other possibilities, like more competition in the gaming market and players' interests changing, because... it supports your narrative, I guess.

    You're not even comparing WoW to other games, which would make your attempt at argumentation slightly less nonsensical, but you're not. You're comparing it to a version of the game that is 12+ years old. WoW today is objectively better than before: better graphics, better game mechanics, less bugs, better accessibility, better balance, more classes, more races, more variety, etc.

    - - - Updated - - -


    I was half-way writing a point-per-point reply to your post, when I realized that your post is made solely of grossly exaggerations in all of its points, with none of it being true. Communities still exist. So do casual raiding guilds. CRZ didn't 'destroy servers' (I still want to know how people can even think that), and Mythic+ dungeons did not kill pve guilds.

    If "communities" died, it's because they killed themselves, not because of any of Blizzard's actions.
    Have you considered the possibility of being shortshighted regarding this and that maybe those comunities died because there was/is little to no incentive for them to flourish? I mean, instead of whiteknighting constantly for blizzard, considering that maybe there's more to it and that maybe, just maybe they are indeed guilty because of changes to the game design, that led the game into a direction where, sure you can have guilds and communitys here and there, but there is next to no need at all for them to exist since you can almost do everything in single player mode.

  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    I'm doing some research and I'd like to hear your opinions guys and gals
    The only thing that's better about Vanilla was the community. The people were better and you and your server had identity. Who you were mattered.

    The game itself, however, is FAR better now, and it's not even close. Is it perfect? No, obviously. They still make mistakes in systems design (legendaries are the best example). But despite that, this game is vastly superior to the game of 10 years ago.

  10. #610
    well they've said that they are going to be keeping the 5 man content challenging and relevant.

    if your progressing on m+ that is linear progression through that one avenue of content, you can mix it up if you want, that is the power of choice instead of being funnelled into a one size fits all grind fest.

    I do think that professions have kinda been given the shaft year after year after year, they either stay exactly the same or just get nerfed or become less and less important.

    as far as the casual argument goes, the only thing i care about is getting to see the content, not the hypothetical epeen value of being in the 1% of ppl who gets to see something. its not like they didn't have catch up mechanics in the past, zg aq20, dungeon set 2, were all attempts at getting more ppl to raid. it didn't exactly change the fact that not many managed to reach the end.

    as far as i'm concerned legion has been the best the game has been since tbc.

    5 man content doesn't become obsolete when you start raiding, raiding is still challenging if you want it to be, you can actually make progress out side of raiding. you don't need to be married to the game to progress anymore.

    back in the day when i had no life at all, i could sit there grinding shit all day every day, raid all night, these days, i don't have time for that.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2017-01-11 at 12:39 PM.

  11. #611
    Quote Originally Posted by Heathy View Post
    as far as i'm concerned legion has been the best the game has been since tbc.
    And how much better/worst is it than TBC in your opinion?

  12. #612
    its a lot better, tbc gave us heroic dungeons so they stayed relevant for longer, but mythic plus has improved on that system quite a lot, heroics in tbc became trivial in t4, once you had t4 the only dungeon that could give you upgrades was magisters terrace. so once you got t4, all those heroics became obsolete.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2017-01-11 at 02:32 PM.

  13. #613
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafoel View Post
    You couldn't buy gold with money.
    Let's not kid ourselves here

  14. #614
    Quote Originally Posted by Heathy View Post
    its a lot better, tbc gave us heroic dungeons so they stayed relevant for longer, but mythic plus has improved on that system quite a lot, heroics in tbc became trivial in t4, once you had t4 the only dungeon that was could give you upgrades was magisters terrace. so once you got t4, all those heroics became obsolete.
    They lasted longer than T4, i remember running them in T5 don't recall the reason tough, but it's irrelevant, i got your point.

  15. #615
    Quote Originally Posted by voidillusion View Post
    They lasted longer than T4, i remember running them in T5 don't recall the reason tough, but it's irrelevant, i got your point.
    yes, i remember still doing them in t6 but they weren't challenging at all by that point so you were just breezing through them.

    raiding in tbc was kinda strange tbh, some of the t5 bosses were wayyyyyy harder than the t6 stuff, the first time my guild did hyjal, we killed the first 3 bosses first time, not one wipe, it felt strange to be doing a higher tier of content that was easier than the previous tier. Vashj and Kael were actually quite hard before they were nerfed into oblivion.

    it took us at least a month to kill kael. that was the first boss i actually saw some guild drama where ppl were getting noticeably pissed off with each other.

  16. #616
    Tbh that's how its supposed to be no? Last tier end bosses are harder than new tier first bosses "normally". One thing to take into consideration was that raids were also longer in that era, how long don't you have a raid with as many bosses like BT or ICC? I consider normal in this design that the first bosses feel breezy to kill.

  17. #617
    for me it was that you had to actually have real friends to run with.Yeah you may pick up a pug now and again but for real i ran with friends .I loved that aspect of the game.My friends were from all over the world and when youd get on vent and roll with people it was fun.Today its more a single player style game that you can raid if you want to but tbh you dont need other people at all.If you have a full line up of crafters of your own you never have to talk to anyone if you don't want to.You dont need to talk in groups with lfr or lfg.maybe mythic runs now you have to communicate .I miss the server community as well.i was and am proud of my server.We had a tight knit group of players being able to be hey lets run this and know almost everyone in the group you are in was great.Now dont get me wrong the quality of life stuff ie no longer needing ammo,or to feed your pet as a hunter,no longer having to have a ranged weapon as a warrior to pull groups,bigger bags tracking menu on the mini map are all nice things to have.For me as a long time player i miss the server community that i grew to know.

  18. #618
    I think some people enjoy the slower pace of vanilla. I.e 'actions per minute' for most classes has skyrocketed since then.

  19. #619
    Quote Originally Posted by voidillusion View Post
    Tbh that's how its supposed to be no? Last tier end bosses are harder than new tier first bosses "normally". One thing to take into consideration was that raids were also longer in that era, how long don't you have a raid with as many bosses like BT or ICC? I consider normal in this design that the first bosses feel breezy to kill.
    perhaps but it didn't really feel like it was a scaling challenging, it was like, once most of your guild had t5 you basically got free t6. going from t4 to t5 was tougher i think, the bosses in ssc and tk were all quite challenging in themselves (well maybe not loot reaver ofc). where as the only bosses we struggled on really in t6 was archimonde, he took a few raids to finally down. i don't remember black temple being particularly hard, i mean you had gorefiend who would randomly 1 shot the tank off a parry but i was pretty good at that ghost mini game. oh yeah reliquary of souls was a bit shit iirc. it was basically all down to your rogues and yeah well we had good rogues but ya know there were days where they just failed at their kick rotations and it would just be a wipe.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2017-01-11 at 01:16 PM.

  20. #620
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    All that moves is easily heard in the void.
    Posts
    6,798
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    I'm doing some research and I'd like to hear your opinions guys and gals
    At the end of the day, it's complicated. In some ways, it was a better game, and in other ways it was a worse game than today.

    One of the most important ways that the old game was better is that class / spec made a notable difference in how dungeon and raid runs played out. It wasn't just a matter of bring pretty much any tank, any healer, and any 3 dps (preferably FOTM) because you were reliant on things like cc (and having players that paid good attention to re-ccing). In BC, I was a co-GM / raid leader and ran Kara a lot...but it didn't bother me back then because every time we ran it, I had a different set of classes, and we would have to approach many of the battles differently based on who was in the raid. That was far more enjoyable (to me at least) than today where the movement is more complicated, but the composition of the raid / dungeon run is entirely irrelevant.

    I think the story-telling has largely improved with many of the expansions (although I still have a place in my heart for the voice acting for Nethekurse). But many of the other changes have done little to improve the game and are largely a mixed bag of mildly positive and mildly negative changes.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •