Why does Blizzard not care about tank balance?

[Daan]

The only problem is that a lot of people rerolled to Guardian Druid, but can't play it very good.

When Blood DK (or BrMonk aswell) was the op tank class for challenge modes, nobody (Blizzard) cares, too.

I think every tank class will be viable for Nighthold.

[Inuyaki]

Thing with BrMs is that they become stronger the harder the content is (ie the stronger the boss hits them, the better stagger becomes as a mitigation mechanic).

I don't think this is correct. Only for spiky damage.
If you have a boss with high constant damage, BrM is pretty weak, because smoothing out constant damage is kinda redundant. There you will see the difference in external healing required. This model is pretty rare tbh, but exists. Ursoc for example, where Monk was (is) one of the weaker tanks imo.

Another thing is the matter with different damage types. Many bosses in NH have tank dots + auto attacks. I think BrM will be pretty strong there, because many mechanics don't do anything (Demon Spikes, Bear has to decide between IF and MoU), while Monk just purifies some of it "passively" (i.e. while purifying auto attack damage or specials)

[Deleted]

I need to blow all my cooldowns on a paladin to tank odyn at 20 stacks while our bear needs no cooldowns.

OMG druids are so bad i need to blow all my cooldown on Cenarius spear while out paladin just needs to bubble. Sure, druids are better than the other tanks and they are nerfing that but specific situations don't make for good examples as the different classes have different abilities. That being said you don't notice that difference outside of proper progression which is something that a lot of people aren't doing. It is an issue and it should be fixed but it's not game-breaking in that it makes content(i.e. a decent portion of it) impossible without druids.

[ComputerNerd]

You have in your mind specific fixes, and if blizzard do not cater solely to your wishes "they don't care".
Or is it because you ignore anything that isn't your personal whims.
Just like those who claims blizzard never listen to feedback, while ignoring the cases where they have.

Blizzard are unlikely to cater to the entire whims of one player.
Let alone it being impossible for everyone.

[Saverem]

I don't think this is correct. Only for spiky damage.
If you have a boss with high constant damage, BrM is pretty weak, because smoothing out constant damage is kinda redundant. There you will see the difference in external healing required. This model is pretty rare tbh, but exists. Ursoc for example, where Monk was (is) one of the weaker tanks imo.

Another thing is the matter with different damage types. Many bosses in NH have tank dots + auto attacks. I think BrM will be pretty strong there, because many mechanics don't do anything (Demon Spikes, Bear has to decide between IF and MoU), while Monk just purifies some of it "passively" (i.e. while purifying auto attack damage or specials)

The constant damage depends on the amount of damage. Take Guarm, that fight has constant damage just like Ursoc (aside from the double headed every min or so), but it does a lot more of it and BrMs are one of the best tanks for it. Ursoc is constant medium damage which is definitely not great for the BrM mechanic. The thing with Ursoc, it's not really a tank mitigation fight like Guarm is so much as it is a tank coordination fight.

[Raiju]

The constant damage depends on the amount of damage. Take Guarm, that fight has constant damage just like Ursoc (aside from the double headed every min or so), but it does a lot more of it and BrMs are one of the best tanks for it. Ursoc is constant medium damage which is definitely not great for the BrM mechanic. The thing with Ursoc, it's not really a tank mitigation fight like Guarm is so much as it is a tank coordination fight.

You'd still far and away prefer a warrior/bear to a BrM on guarm solo (doesnt really matter after the change, does it?). Sure, a BrM could do it which is more to be said than some other tanks, but far easier for the former 2.

BrM's excel at spike damage, they did not come close to bear/warr at constant

[RoKPaNda]

Yes druids are strong, but they're not nearly as strong as you're making it out to be. One of the problems with this community is that the top 1% will propose an idea that Class X is strongest or weakest based on current content and the community just runs with it and translate that into "THIS CLASS IS BETTER THAN THE OTHERS ALWAYS!" - Look at Brewmaster. For months people said Brewmasters were garbage and then it turns out that the spec actually performs quite well.

Druids are strong, but the difference between them and the other tanks is quite small. Your problem OP is that your guild's druid probably outgears you, or is just itemized better than you if the difference between that bear and you is consistently night and day.

[Saverem]

BrM's excel at spike damage, they did not come close to bear/warr at constant

Ummmm, I never said they did. I still believe G Dru are the overall best tanks in the game, even with the 7.1.5 nerfs. I'd say Prot Pallies are number 2 overall now. I'd put BrMs together with War tanks though in terms of overall mitigation since the Wars did get a bit of a mitigation nerf (in the form of less rage generation), especially with their T19 set bonuses which is VERY GOOD.

VDH set bonuses are RIDICULOUSLY GOOD though, so I'd actually put them at number 3 with their 4 pc set bonus.


From the looks of it right now, assuming all the tanks have their 4 pc set bonuses it looks do be: GDru > PPally > VDH > BrM/War > BDK. Because of how unique BrM mechanics are (they don't really fall into the Dru/War/Pally passive mitigation role nor the BDK/VDH active mitigation role), there might be fights wehre BrMs could overtake even G Drus on for best tanks and fights where they'll fall behind BDKs and be the worst.

[Jastall]

Yes druids are strong, but they're not nearly as strong as you're making it out to be. One of the problems with this community is that the top 1% will propose an idea that Class X is strongest or weakest based on current content and the community just runs with it and translate that into "THIS CLASS IS BETTER THAN THE OTHERS ALWAYS!" - Look at Brewmaster. For months people said Brewmasters were garbage and then it turns out that the spec actually performs quite well.

Druids are strong, but the difference between them and the other tanks is quite small. Your problem OP is that your guild's druid probably outgears you, or is just itemized better than you if the difference between that bear and you is consistently night and day.

It's a problem with all roles, yeah. Top players/theorycrafters say ''X spec is generally better than others in YZ situations, albeit not overpowered'' and it's distorted as ''X spec is the best, everything else is complete trash''. Our guild's second tank is Brew, and he sometimes laughs at mechanics our Druid struggles with.

Similarily, our guild's best DPS is... a Forst Mage. While everyone and their grandma will tell you about how oh so OP Fire is and all that (pre-changes anyay).

I found it's better not to listen to the chorus and play what you enjoy. A ''bad'' spec that you play well can easily outmuscle a ''good'' spec that you play less well.

[Creraria]

It's a problem with all roles, yeah. Top players/theorycrafters say ''X spec is generally better than others in YZ situations, albeit not overpowered'' and it's distorted as ''X spec is the best, everything else is complete trash''. Our guild's second tank is Brew, and he sometimes laughs at mechanics our Druid struggles with.

Similarily, our guild's best DPS is... a Forst Mage. While everyone and their grandma will tell you about how oh so OP Fire is and all that (pre-changes anyay).

I found it's better not to listen to the chorus and play what you enjoy. A ''bad'' spec that you play well can easily outmuscle a ''good'' spec that you play less well.

Frost has been better on ST for a while now.

[Deleted]

Yes druids are strong, but they're not nearly as strong as you're making it out to be. One of the problems with this community is that the top 1% will propose an idea that Class X is strongest or weakest based on current content and the community just runs with it and translate that into "THIS CLASS IS BETTER THAN THE OTHERS ALWAYS!" - Look at Brewmaster. For months people said Brewmasters were garbage and then it turns out that the spec actually performs quite well.

Druids are strong, but the difference between them and the other tanks is quite small. Your problem OP is that your guild's druid probably outgears you, or is just itemized better than you if the difference between that bear and you is consistently night and day.

Lol no.

Druids are just as strong as the OP says they are.

The differences between them.

Warrior... shittier version of a druid after nerf, before nerf was godmode.

Paladin... King of dps but gets face smashed in in bigger pulls and the healing mechanic is completely retarded for a tank(1 tanking trait works <40% hp, like c'mon).

Druid... King at mitigation and okay-ish dps, the godmode tank.

DK... Good self-heals, still dies to bursts and takes time to get self-sustaining during big pulls. Less-scarier to heal than the paladin.

Brewmaster ... a myth, squishy and turns into the corpse the quickest.

DH... Probably king at self-heals but excells at dying off quickly as well. In the hands of a good player, good enough, shitty player and you'd just want to rip your hair out.



Druid tops them all, druid mitigation is king, dps is not too far behind, although granted, cant do 600k dps ST, more like 330-400K? Paladin beats them all. The others, they don't really come close overall.

I'm a main raid-healer in my guild, done a 15 I don't even remember when anymore, play all 3 specs, main holy. And I heal these mofos, I know what it feels like.

Druids, rarely really need healing in dungeons, even in raids in fact, beacon is sufficient. All the others... lol, they just tend to die way too easy compared to a druid, not even kidding. When we switch tanks, druid goes on his alt DK or something, I can tell the difference that something dramatically changed because I suddenly have to spam them more than 2 consecutive heals as a hpally, which never really happens on the bear tank, unless I or him fucks up.

This is from a class that heals a million with a single cast and no cds.

My 2cents. Some of these guys such as the pally and prob. even all of them, mitigate okay enough when they get their procs rolling but some of them, especially the squishy ones and the pally with it's retarded healing mechanic(which to be good, needs to be effectively used under half health at least) can get themselves globaled during some pulls or heavy consecutive hitters. Something that never happens on a druid.

[Deleted]

I dont know how people dont see that bears are OP:

*Best physical mitigation (kinda magical cause you can have 100% uptime)
*More CDs than every other tank (Artifact every 2 min, 2xSurvival Instincts or 3 with legendary every 3 min, barskin every min, charges on self heal)
*Second best DPS ST (most bosses are ST with some adds coming on ocasionally) and second best DPS AoE (best depending on legendarys)
*Highly benefits from armor at more rate than any other tank (the 20 "paragon" traits on the artifact give armor)

Even after the vastly nerfs they are getting they are only in pair(not even behind) with pally which is the second best tank. DH, DK,BrM and Warrior with 4 pc Tier will be equal to druid and paladin WITHOUT TIER in mitigation, and not even close in damage. There is a totally obvious bad balance in tanks both damage and mitigation.

Just read @NadEFurY comment, this is how tanks feel. I have every tank class and i use them all, currently maining Blood DK; but i will change every tank i have for a 885 44 traits Druid, that would easily compete with my 891 54 traits DK in both DPS and mitigation. And that feels very VERY bad.

[Staalsy]

if your so informative tell me why I need to blow all my cooldowns on a paladin to tank odyn at 20 stacks while our bear needs no cooldowns. and dont say because im bad I tanked the +15 achievement in november. and its my offspec

Because you're not good at the game, or your healers aren't

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

[mmouser]

Druid tops them all, druid mitigation is king, dps is not too far behind, although granted, cant do 600k dps ST, more like 330-400K? Paladin beats them all. The others, they don't really come close overall.

Unfortunately the data does not back up your claim. The best DPS a tank can do on a ST fight like Guarm is 405k and that is a PROT WARRIOR. Best bear does 343k and best pally does 385k. On average, the top percentile of these tanks are doing 255k-308k. And this is only a day into 7.1.5. In fact in 7.1.0 the DPS ranged from 195-262k, so its going to take a lot more than 1 days of logs to temper the current stats.

But again, if DPS is what we want to measure tanks with then their DtPS is pointless. If it is DtPS then that is group and timing dependent. You could run some SimC measurements but it ultimately is pointless as each class has its pluses and minuses.

Personally when I was on the beta, I was trying each tank with my healer. BrM was too complex for my liking and while it was obviously great, it didnt have the "recover from death" that I want to feel. Pallies have that with lay on hands, but the charge system really pushed me away. DKs kinda had that but the playstyle and the artifact left me feeling lackluster. Vengeance was awesome to play and feel but it was the new kid on the block and was either going to be OP or meh and I didnt want to risk that. Prot warrior felt great, had all the right buttons....except that stupid artifact. Then bear and I fell in love instantly. Artifact had a cool visual effect combined with a useful recover from death feel. Builder/Spender model that I like, and the skins were so pretty.

The main reason why you seem to see druid as the best is because it is used the most. It has 1,426 parses from 7.1 guarm. Next highest is Prot warrior with 876 and prot pally with 705. It is the representation that makes them feel the best, not the class themselves. I mean, who doesnt love all of those skin choices.

[Orangetai420]

if your so informative tell me why I need to blow all my cooldowns on a paladin to tank odyn at 20 stacks while our bear needs no cooldowns. and dont say because im bad I tanked the +15 achievement in november. and its my offspec

I like how you've ignored every post telling you that Druids got nerfed. Classy, OP, classy.

[Sorban]

Unfortunately the data does not back up your claim. The best DPS a tank can do on a ST fight like Guarm is 405k and that is a PROT WARRIOR. Best bear does 343k and best pally does 385k. On average, the top percentile of these tanks are doing 255k-308k. And this is only a day into 7.1.5. In fact in 7.1.0 the DPS ranged from 195-262k, so its going to take a lot more than 1 days of logs to temper the current stats.

But again, if DPS is what we want to measure tanks with then their DtPS is pointless. If it is DtPS then that is group and timing dependent. You could run some SimC measurements but it ultimately is pointless as each class has its pluses and minuses.

Personally when I was on the beta, I was trying each tank with my healer. BrM was too complex for my liking and while it was obviously great, it didnt have the "recover from death" that I want to feel. Pallies have that with lay on hands, but the charge system really pushed me away. DKs kinda had that but the playstyle and the artifact left me feeling lackluster. Vengeance was awesome to play and feel but it was the new kid on the block and was either going to be OP or meh and I didnt want to risk that. Prot warrior felt great, had all the right buttons....except that stupid artifact. Then bear and I fell in love instantly. Artifact had a cool visual effect combined with a useful recover from death feel. Builder/Spender model that I like, and the skins were so pretty.

The main reason why you seem to see druid as the best is because it is used the most. It has 1,426 parses from 7.1 guarm. Next highest is Prot warrior with 876 and prot pally with 705. It is the representation that makes them feel the best, not the class themselves. I mean, who doesnt love all of those skin choices.

Warrior dps on Guarm is that 7.1.5 where they have to lose 25% health and ip to do more dps? Or 7.1 where they could dump all their rage into huge shield slam dmg instead of def Because...say...The Bear tank was the one really tanking the boss not the extra hits now and then.

More bears used the most....Because they hands down solo tanked Guarm the easiest to make progression on the boss much much easier. Ie Alot of guilds set thier main tanks and Had some one with a druid tank alt or just the main druid tank single tank it.