+35 sucks!

[Alvito]

By thentime you are at 35+ hour AK is so gigh you end up ranking up every other day. I know for myself from 28 to 35 it took a week for a point. After 35 I was getting 3+ a week and leveling other weapons. Now with the AK catch and the Suramar quest you can blitz through AP.

[Eleccybubb]

Yeah, and the choice he made is forcing him to play this way, so shut the fuck up about "not being forced to". Forced by choice, yes, still forced nonetheless.

OP plays casually. As long as you farming now and then casual guilds won't give a fuck as long as your Artifact is decent and you do alright. So again you are not forced. Especially in a casual environment. I'd say 2 gold traits is enough for Nighthold Normal personally. Hell 1 even. I have alts in a casual environment and they only have 1 gold trait and I do alright with them. I don't feel forced into farming AP at all.

[clevin]

Yeah, and the choice he made is forcing him to play this way, so shut the fuck up about "not being forced to". Forced by choice, yes, still forced nonetheless.

First off, you miss this, from OP:

A s a casual player I used to play many hours a week across multiple toons ..

He's CASUAL. He's not hardcore. So he doesn't need 54 traits because he and his guild are pushing for a top 50 ranking.

If he hates the grind, he can make a different choice. He's basically making the argument that every abused person makes... "But I can't leave..." Yes. You can. But if you really want to play at the very tip top of progression... the to 20 or 50 guilds... then you always have had to grind shit and go to extremes. HOWEVER... OP is nowhere close to being this progressed. By his own admission, he's casual. 35 is plenty for that

Again, don't like it? Make a different choice. Want to be elite? The best? That doesn't come easily. Put in the work.

[Eleccybubb]

His choice. No one is forcing jack. If he hates the grind, he can make a different choice. He's basically making the argument that every abused person makes... "But I can't leave..." Yes. You can. But if you really want to play at the very tip top of progression... the to 20 or 50 guilds... then you always have had to grind shit and go to extremes. My gut feel is that OP is nowhere close to being this progressed and is one more of the huge mass of tryhardcore players who THINK they're elite but really are world 3000 and not elite at all.

Again, don't like it? Make a different choice. Want to be elite? The best? That doesn't come easily. Put in the work.

OP even said they were a casual. I play casually and I don't feel forced into grinding AP. And when I was playing with my Shaman a lot raiding HC our leader even told us to not overdo it with farming but make sure we do now and then.

[Deleted]

I seem to remember an expansion ago that people complained there was nothing to do.

Man, it's impossible to please people.

This is why Blizzard ignores so much of the things people are saying. The majority have zero hindsight or memory, they just complain and offer no ideas or suggestions.

[Eleccybubb]

This is why Blizzard ignores so much of the things people are saying. The majority have zero hindsight or memory, they just complain and offer no ideas or suggestions.

Pretty much.

"WAAAH BLIZZARD NOTHING TO DO OR GRIND"

"WAAAAH BLIZZARD GRIND TOO PAINFUL/HARD I QUIT"

Some of these people would never have survived MMOs like FF11 or Everquest. Hell these kinds of people would have a heart attack over getting a Legendary in GW2 before the expansion.

- - - Updated - - -

I thought that MMO-champion brought on moderators that were actually polite, caring about their consumerbase (since that's what their page viewers are) and were intelligent enough to understand that the people bitching about the grind are not the same people bitching about things to do. But I don't think you've ever failed to prove just how much of a snarky smart ass you are. I sincerely hope you aren't getting paid to do this because you're quite a poor representation of what a forum moderator should personify.

Why? Because he has an opinion. Mods are human. Deal with it. What should Mods just agree with everything everyone posts on this site like mindless fucking robots?

[Darsithis]

I thought that MMO-champion brought on moderators that were actually polite, caring about their consumerbase (since that's what their page viewers are) and were intelligent enough to understand that the people bitching about the grind are not the same people bitching about having very little things to do in the previous expansion. But I don't think you've ever failed to prove just how much of a snarky smart ass you are in the many years I've used this forum. I sincerely hope you aren't getting paid to do this because you're quite a poor representation of what a forum moderator should personify.

I'm not here to coddle anyone, and I don't have to agree with what someone has posted. I have seen these same threads many times. In WoD people complained about nothing to do. In Legion now I see people complaining about having too much to do.

[cFortyfive]

Man it feels like NCSoft has taken over Acti-Blizz!

And the plebs love them for it. I really don't get how people can be so satisfied with such mindnumbing grinds seems like something not even an ape would consider fulfilling. It's literally worse than a year of raid farm.

[Boyinawell]

People fall into one of these categories:

Casual, and understand they are casual so don't fret about being top end everything.

Hardcore, and understand the effort and time it takes to actually be the top end everything.

And of course: Casual, but think they should be even with people that put in way more time, effort, or research than them.

If you are even remotely casual, you do not need 35+. There is no content that currently requires it that isn't considered higher end. So when the OP says they need it to compete, they are creating their own personal competition in their head - and then blaming the game for not succeeding.

[Eleccybubb]

And the plebs love them for it. I really don't get how people can be so satisfied with such mindnumbing grinds seems like something not even an ape would consider fulfilling. It's literally worse than a year of raid farm.

I don't mind a grind as long as I enjoy it. In the case of Artifacts I don't force it and I pace myself. I have all 3 gold traits on my Resto Shaman and 2 golds on my SV hunter. I don't feel that behind. I've done worse grinds as well.

[Darsithis]

And the plebs love them for it. I really don't get how people can be so satisfied with such mindnumbing grinds seems like something not even an ape would consider fulfilling. It's literally worse than a year of raid farm.

How would you change it?

A grind is a grind no matter how you do it. If it's a huge challenge every single day it becomes an investment many people won't face, just like they won't exercise or eat better. If it's really easy it is just boring and people don't do it. Unfortunately I can't see any really good way to accomplish a grind that is fun consistently.

[Eleccybubb]

How would you change it?

A grind is a grind no matter how you do it. If it's a huge challenge every single day it becomes an investment many people won't face, just like they won't exercise or eat better. If it's really easy it is just boring and people don't do it. Unfortunately I can't see any really good way to accomplish a grind that is fun consistently.

This. Like I said I've done worse. Getting my legendary weapon back in GW2 was hell and getting my special armor in FF11 was a fucking nightmare for example.

[Notdev]

There's a pretty big difference between there being nothing to do (WoD) and having the seemingly endless grind that AP/Legendary/Gear farming from M+ is. You know. Like the previous 3 expansions before WoD. Never before in the game has there been a way to increase player power that took so long to "complete" and had no weekly cap like M+ is.

[stomination]

I seem to remember an expansion ago that people complained there was nothing to do.

Man, it's impossible to please people.

Whats worst is that you can get most of that AP by just doing what you normally do in the game....yet they call it a grind.

[Schizoide]

WoD wasn't just lacking "fun", it was literally lacking. There was a huge dearth of content.

It certainly had less primary character progression stuff than Legion, but for most of us WoD had tons of content that we didn't touch because we didn't enjoy it. Did you finish all the challenge modes, collect all the pets and level them to 25, collect all the toys and mounts, get all the dungeon and raid achievements, and clear everything on mythic?

For me personally, I didn't touch pet battles because I hate them. Same as the OP and grinding.

IMO, grinding progression content is worse than nothing, because it makes me feel obligated to do stuff I don't enjoy as it offers my main character core role performance. I'd rather goof off on alts or solo old raids than do mythic+ maw of souls all day every day for AP.

[Allenschezar]

But if you really want to play at the very tip top of progression... the to 20 or 50 guilds... then you always have had to grind shit and go to extremes.

Please read some of the Interview's of Sco etc.

Yes Top World players have to play much. But Legion is different. In earlier Addons they raided for progression. After everything was done they reduced raiding time by a drastic amount. There were even those who took a month of work only to raid and then reduced the play time by a large amount.

That's not possible anymore. They even said themselves the people who are dependent on jobs struggle due to extreme need of farming AP, running Mythic+ etc.

So no. It wasn't as extreme before as it is now.

Of course if he chose to play casual he doesn't have to grind like that. So you're right he's not forced to do that. But it's not deniable there's way more you HAVE to do than before if you want to compete on a high level.

I don't say i hate the fact there's stuff to do now. But it's the opposite extreme of WoD. They just fail to find the middle path.

[Eleccybubb]

It certainly had less primary character progression stuff than Legion, but for most of us WoD had tons of content that we didn't touch because we didn't enjoy it. Did you finish all the challenge modes, collect all the pets and level them to 25, get all the dungeon and raid achievements, and clear everything on mythic?

For me personally, I didn't touch pet battles because I hate them. Same as the OP and grinding.

IMO, grinding progression content is worse than nothing, because it makes me feel obligated to do stuff I don't enjoy as it offers my main character core role performance. I'd rather goof off on alts or solo old raids than do mythic+ maw of souls all day every day for AP.

To be fair pet collecting has kind of been a thing since day one. Also pet battling was introduced in MoP.

[DesMephisto]

I seem to remember an expansion ago that people complained there was nothing to do.

Man, it's impossible to please people.

I'm of the few people who thought WoD was good. Gave you plenty of alternatives. Now Legion is basically ride the train, or get off and get left behind.

[Concequence]

The +35 grind killed most of the 'fun' I used to have from this game .. A s a casual player I used to play many hours a week across multiple toons .. That's all gone now .. Simply knowing my character is inferior as well as I need to grind until my eyes bleed simply SUCKS!

You know, the grind from +35-37 is enough to do 0-35 on a second spec. I did +2 on my Unholy, and I'm doing my tank spec now. Its actually fun, its giving me a reason to build new TellMeWhen's to play better as a tank. I will probably do Frost after that.

[analmoose]

I seem to remember an expansion ago that people complained there was nothing to do.

Man, it's impossible to please people.

Yeah but replacing "nothing" with more nothing in the form of getting AP trickled into you by doing the random shit you got bored of doing isn't really adding something to do. Know what I mean?