Why Vanilla WoW?

[Sabever]

Of all the expansions to compare to <insert current expansion to complain about here>, why is vanilla WoW the one many people argue are the best? I can kind of relate to WotLK/BC even though there is still vastly much more to do now than back then, but vanilla onestly was a sad attempt of a game compared to Legion. Maybe it was cool back in its time, but when I look back, I see a game that:

-Has ridiculously imbalanced classes/specs, and by far worse than now to the point that hybrids couldn't DPS, plate wearers were only useful as tanks, and DPS classes only had one viable spec. - imbalances yes, no hybrids false, plate wearers only useful as tanks.... warriors were the highest dps, dps only had one viable spec..... see warlock. You obviously never played Vanilla. Stop posting.
-There was 3 less classes (DH, DK, monk) with the first 2 being widely popular. - Oh
-Horde didn't have paladins, alliance didn't have shamans. - Oh
-Only 8 races, and let's face it, without blood elves, we'd lose half the current horde population. - Oh
-Terrible graphics and character models compared to now, with horrible facial animations. - Oh.... and btw Retail wow has terrible graphics too.
-Ridiculously long and grindy dungeons/raids with next to no mechanics and way too much trash. - Next to no mechanics must = more than legion and too much trash..... complain more
-The only reputations were very time-consuming and boring mob grinds, or item turn-ins with items from mob-grinding. - Oh
-No flying, which apparently is a ridiculously massive problem for many players. - Thank god!
-On that note, no mounts until level 40, like ffs, fuck leveling with that, I don't know how i did it as a warlock... - Oh..... and Thank god!
-Clunky, long, and unintuitive quests that sent you across the globe (again without mounts, hello shaman class quests) and forced you to often use Thotbot to figure out what to do - you poor baby. Looks like someone could not cut it on Nost.
-No quest voice over besides the very most important characters, no cutscenes (which are amazing), and no interesting quests, literally only killing, gathering, and escourts. - Oh wow, those voiceover quests make all the difference. Those cut scenes sure make an mmo.
-No max level content besides raiding/dungeons, and PvP. (Wait isn't the problem now that there isn't enough to do? Weird...) - More max level raids than any expansion..... you never played Vanilla
-Having to walk all the way to altarac/hillsbrad to queue for AV, or arathi for AB, etc. - Oh..... more crying from you
-PvP incredibly unbalanced, enh shamans one shotting people with windfury procs, warlocks being ridiculous, etc. - But I thought only one spec worked?
-Waiting around in the main cities for an hour trying to get a group for the specific dungeon you want. - You mean you had to get a reputation for not being bad to get a group. That is so bad that you had to wait hours. You must be terrible.
-Without a good guild, you could just forget about doing raids and thus not having any reason to do dungeons. - You never played Vanilla.

I mean I could go on all day and the only benefits I see are from nostalgia goggles and can never be fixed outside of a completely new game:

-The game is new, so everything is interesting and unknown.
-People first playnig the game were much younger, so things are of course going to be more "magical" to younger kids. I myself was like 12-13 at first.

Honestly that's all I can even think of, after staring at my screen for 5minutes. Outside of nostalgia, vanilla is just objectively the worse "expansion" (yea, it's not an expansion, w/e). I'm legitimately curious to hear what anyone has to say that was nice about vanilla as opposed to now. Oh, and try not to say things that blizzard has tried reintroducing recently and it tanked horribly because nobody liked it.

My answers next to your dumb information.

[Shridevi]

Vanilla WoW is better, but you'll have to find the reasons why elsewhere. When I speak from personal experience or provide links to the experiences of others it invariably results in an infraction. Not whining; it is what it is.

[McNeil]

Vanilla is not the best but it was most certainly a much different game than we knew. The game back then was centered around the whole world, with the journey to reach max level being the game itself. It wasn't until TBC that they wanted to make raiding more accesible, and they continued making it more accesible with each passing expansion. Vanilla is especially different if you compare it to Legion, being more of a sandbox game where your free to do whatever you want, while Legion is a lot more streamlined and is more limited to choices.

Both TBC and WotLK are superior while also keeping their new continent more journey-ish, having different zones to choose from while leveling (you can now do it in Legion aswell, but its only 4 zones compared to like 7-8 other leveling zones).

Vanilla and Legion are both fun to play for different reasons. Its not always nostalgia, wish more people saw that.

[Deleted]

Vanilla is not the best but it was most certainly a much different game than we knew. The game back then was centered around the whole world, with the journey to reach max level being the game itself. It wasn't until TBC that they wanted to make raiding more accesible, and they continued making it more accesible with each passing expansion. Vanilla is especially different if you compare it to Legion, being more of a sandbox game where your free to do whatever you want, while Legion is a lot more streamlined and is more limited to choices.

Both TBC and WotLK are superior while also keeping their new continent more journey-ish, having different zones to choose from while leveling (you can now do it in Legion aswell, but its only 4 zones compared to like 7-8 other leveling zones).

Vanilla and Legion are both fun to play for different reasons. Its not always nostalgia, wish more people saw that.

Pretty well said.
I find retail to be more of a Diablo or Borderlands kind of game whích i eventually always come back for few weeks and leave. And then i come back again and again.
Vanilla is for me personally a real mmorpg game that just scratches that itch that cant be touched by anything else.

[Vash The Stampede]

80% Nostalgia
20% New game feeling

20% Nostalgia
80% Modern WoW sucks

[God Save The King]

20% Nostalgia
80% Modern WoW sucks

20% Nostalgia
80% Modern WoW isn't for them*

[Trollfat]

20% Nostalgia
80% Modern WoW sucks

I keep hearing this "it's just nostalgia" argument even though Nostalrius had 800k accounts and 150k active users.... in 2016. The nostalgia argument may be true for the demographic that actually enjoys the popcorn pseudo-rpg slot machine that is Legion, but keep in mind there is a massive demographic of gamers that Blizzard is no longer servicing.

It's akin to Nintendo no longer servicing Metroid fans in any capacity and shutting down brilliant non-profit fan made games such as AM2R. Yes, they have the legal right to protect their IP but it's seen as a dick move when other companies, such as SEGA, actually host community events and encourage fan made games.

[Sansnom]

It's hilarious when people say "it was totally new never seen before". Laughable, but i guess LoL was first MMORPG amirite

For many, Wow was their first experience of MMO and acknowledgement of the genre. Why is that so hilarious?

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The vanilla Durotar experience :

Made a new shaman and died twice in the valley of trials. Combat lasts 5+ GCDs and every mob drains me of vital mana. I often ran out of food and drink. Looted everything to be able to afford new spells. Had to group up to complete several quests, such as Zalazane and Darkfizzle. Took me 6 hours to reach level 10 after completing almost every quest in the zone. Made my way up a narrow, winding mountain path to kill a fire elemental (that I died 3 times to) for a class quest.

Legion Durotar experience:

Got to level 10 in one hour. Never died or ran out of resources. Never had to group up. Killed every mob within 3 GCDs. Just when things were starting to get a little tougher at 8 and 9, I get a sudden 50% increase in power at level 10 and begin steamrolling again.

You cannot really compare the two. You have to consider that at Legion, the majority of the player base is at level 100, moving to level 110. You cannot expect any new players to progress at the same rate as you did when you first played it. For a start, there are vastly less players around. Most of the zones are deserted. Any group quests will be skipped. Without LFD, dungeons would be skipped as well.

Besides, the fast levelling was requested by the players.

[Wewlad]

I'll just copy/paste my post on a similar thread.


The "Nostalgia" argument runs thin with how rampant support remains for legacy servers, but I won't go deeper on where that support has led to.

I won't use the "community" argument either although it does tie into my following point.

Classic WoW felt like an actual world, and we as players were small parts of it. Our characters could contribute in their own ways, but there was far more beyond them.

Nowadays there is so much focus on giving our characters a false and unearned sense of importance, that it really takes away from the original purpose of an MMORPG. It's a reason why SWTOR didn't fare so well. Blizzard really missed the ball by placing importance on individuals (which is meaningless in an MMORPG) rather than the groups as a whole. Nefarian wasn't slain by one person, but a collective raid group. That is another reason why people who say our characters as individuals should have more importance are wrong, and miss the point, because it wasn't just one but many who accomplished such great deeds throughout the history of WoW.

Your one character shouldn't be that important, but the group they are apart of should be, and had been. Blizzard should never have stepped beyond naming our characters "champions" because that is all they are at the end of the day. They aren't really leaders (no matter what illusion is set upon them) nor singular, named heroes. They're really effective soldiers, of course, but that doesn't make them commanders or great leaders.

And that is why people who support Classic for setting/story reasons absolutely disdain the change of focus begun in WoD. Because they won't buy the illusion of individual importance that is entirely hollow and meaningless, nor stand for it. They just want to be themselves, as smaller parts of a larger story.

[Deleted]

I keep hearing this "it's just nostalgia" argument even though Nostalrius had 800k accounts and 150k active users.... in 2016. The nostalgia argument may be true for the demographic that actually enjoys the popcorn pseudo-rpg slot machine that is Legion, but keep in mind there is a massive demographic of gamers that Blizzard is no longer servicing.

It had 800k accounts created cause it was free, so you now random joe could created 1k accounts.
and it DIDNT had 150k active users - more like 20k. which shows why blizzard never will make legacy a reallity (thank blizzard)
It IS nostalgia and for some teens who havent been born and able to play back in 2004/5 it is something new to experience that all it is.

[Zoldor]

Some people want the slow pace and large expansive world experience. Blizzard thought, that for the survival of the game it needed to change. So they changed it. I for one enjoy this experience in game now as much or more than I ever did Vanilla. Once I started raiding in vanilla that is what I wanted to do, but there are tons of draw backs to the vanilla world and anyone claiming otherwise is choosing to not remember things, as that was 10 years ago. Some of them don't like the fast paced nature of the game today, and want one where they can roam around, slowly quest, do a couple dungeons a week, and maybe raid if and when they want. I knew a lot of IRL people who played during vanilla, most of them never hit 60, idled around in the 30s to 50s, and quit. The game was more of an adventure exploration thing, with a lot less concern about raiding and end game.

I think Blizz made the right choice emphasizing the end game a lot more. Yes there were raids in Vanilla and there was end game, but a large portion of vanilla was getting to the end and slowly building player power, with everything from fast riding mounts to gear and professions. I don't think the game would have lasted as long or got as popular if they didn't head toward a more fast paced world.

Near the end of the vanilla cycle realms were insanely divided, being a new player late in the game was hard as most folks were well beyond the point of wanting to help or needing you. Call it a wealth disparity. Those who were at the top remember it as the good ole days, because for them things were great, for folks outside the game got frustrating and boring quickly, not being able to find groups for Strat or Scholo or BRD (let alone completing it). Not being able to get a raid spot because your gear disparity was huge especially since most guilds were done with T1 and some with T2 by that point.

I loved Vanilla WoW, but I don't want to return to it, would be nice to visit and play around, but long term I like the modern game. Maybe a new MMO but even then, probably just for the leveling experience and lore, like SWTOR was for me. I just don't want to go back to that slow highly spread out end game.

[Trollfat]

For many, Wow was their first experience of MMO and acknowledgement of the genre. Why is that so hilarious?

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You cannot really compare the two. You have to consider that at Legion, the majority of the player base is at level 100, moving to level 110. You cannot expect any new players to progress at the same rate as you did when you first played it. For a start, there are vastly less players around. Most of the zones are deserted. Any group quests will be skipped. Without LFD, dungeons would be skipped as well.

Besides, the fast levelling was requested by the players.

I agree with your points. Imo they could fix the problem by auto scaling all zones to the player's level (with level restrictions for some zones), drastically nerfing player power and increasing exp to compensate. Just making an incentive for players to actually experience zones in their entirety at an appropriate pace. Because steamrolling through half of one zone, a quarter of another zone, etc etc is not very engaging to players.

Of course, this would only (sort of) fix one of Legion's many problems.

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It had 800k accounts created cause it was free, so you now random joe could created 1k accounts.
and it DIDNT had 150k active users - more like 20k. which shows why blizzard never will make legacy a reallity (thank blizzard)
It IS nostalgia and for some teens who havent been born and able to play back in 2004/5 it is something new to experience that all it is.

Nostalrius/Elysium has around 30k players online/in-queue RIGHT NOW. Yes, I do believe there were 150k active accounts on the Nostalrius Begins.

[Darsithis]

Guys, this is not a place to discuss a private server

[darkwarrior42]

Your one character shouldn't be that important, but the group they are apart of should be, and had been. Blizzard should never have stepped beyond naming our characters "champions" because that is all they are at the end of the day. They aren't really leaders (no matter what illusion is set upon them) nor singular, named heroes. They're really effective soldiers, of course, but that doesn't make them commanders or great leaders.

And that is why people who support Classic for setting/story reasons absolutely disdain the change of focus begun in WoD. Because they won't buy the illusion of individual importance that is entirely hollow and meaningless, nor stand for it. They just want to be themselves, as smaller parts of a larger story.

They hit that really well in WotLK, actually.... there was a dialogue between a couple of NPCs Alliance side in the keep in the Dragonblight where one NPC was despairing, and another was talking about the champions that had shown up to help challenge the power of Naxxramas. I don't remember the exact phrasing but it was something to the effect of, "The Scarab Lord has returned. Champions of the Naaru, appointed by A'dal himself have come. Don't lose faith, we have allies that will help us win." It simultaneously emphasized the importance of the players and the fact that we weren't alone, that we were still arriving to help win the figh

Of course, the flip side of making the players too large is that we also need to care about the big lore figures... the past few expansions they've done a great job of making at least one faction look like complete fools (at best) or genocidal maniacs (at worst), or both.

[Wewlad]

They hit that really well in WotLK, actually.... there was a dialogue between a couple of NPCs Alliance side in the keep in the Dragonblight where one NPC was despairing, and another was talking about the champions that had shown up to help challenge the power of Naxxramas. I don't remember the exact phrasing but it was something to the effect of, "The Scarab Lord has returned. Champions of the Naaru, appointed by A'dal himself have come. Don't lose faith, we have allies that will help us win." It simultaneously emphasized the importance of the players and the fact that we weren't alone, that we were still arriving to help win the figh

Of course, the flip side of making the players too large is that we also need to care about the big lore figures... the past few expansions they've done a great job of making at least one faction look like complete fools (at best) or genocidal maniacs (at worst), or both.

I remember that bit. It didn't emphasize you (as in the player viewing that dialogue at the current moment) but acknowledged the collaborative player effort. Unlike WoD where everyone is spamming "ORDERZ, COMMANDER?" and Legion where the empty fellatio hit 11. I still can't imagine how Blizzard played mental gymnastics to not realize that all of it comes across as rather patronizing to not acknowledge that 10 million Ashbringer wielders completely dilutes the weapon and lore.

Not to mention—how the fuck can the class leaders ever be properly acknowledged outside of the single-player bullshit? They can't be specific characters, so they're just holes in the story that cannot be filled.

[Schattenlied]

This is why I've started on the new vanilla server as well.

My personal beef with vanilla is the horrible, horrible, horrible UI. Tracking buffs, debuffs, casts and trying to write working macros is just retarded. I also feel extremely gimped without having a mouseover/target focus macro (but I'd say 99 % of the vanilla=nostalgia haters can't relate, since they probably don't know how to use one anyway). But even with all the disadvantages, it's just better if you think CRZ is a bad and lazy design choice.

The Supermacro addon should fix your macro issues.

[RobertMugabe]

People just enjoy the gameplay*. Balance (that isn't anyways as important in vanilla as it is in legion, as most people do not raid or do competitive pvp mainly) and graphics aren't certainly important to them, what is so hard about that to understand? I play both and enjoy them for different reasons.

* (excluding pvp) Legion's gameplay (and any other xpac) is based mainly around raiding and dungeons/WQ's are secondary content. Vanilla's gameplay on the other hand is mainly based around questing and there is a much bigger focus on character progression.

By the way: I could swear I wrote a similar answer to an almost identical post today. GJ on that mods though.

[Deleted]

For many, Wow was their first experience of MMO and acknowledgement of the genre. Why is that so hilarious?

Because also, for plenty people it wasn't, and they remember vanilla in good light. The whole argument is a pointless generalization. The whole disgregard of people feelings toward something, as nostalgia is not only condescending, but outright missing the point for the most part.

[Thorbalt]

theyre not rose colored glasses anymore, its a damn 24 foot thick telescope

[Trollfat]

theyre not rose colored glasses anymore, its a damn 24 foot thick telescope

Most vanilla supporters aren't just hyping up distant memories, they've been playing it for years on private servers. We're talking tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people. Vanilla has stood the test of time in many people's opinions.