Expansion after Legion: the perfect chance for a massive revamp?

[Darkarath]

Hey guys¡ I know that we have a lot of Legion before even hearing about the next expansion, but its always fun to speculate, and I think that they might be some chances that another ''Cataclysm'' happens. Personally I'm loving Legion, and I would love to finally see a single timeline in WoW, and not the mess that we have right now, and I really really think that the next expansion is perfect for this to happen, and here is why:

1- Of course we have to talk about the new scale tech that they developed in Legion. I think that is amazing. They had already talk about how to implement it in other parts of the world. WoW is huge and it's a pity that after one expansion ends their zones are forever forgotten. They are already experimenting with it (Silithus miny holidays comes to mind, invasion event...), and it gives them the chance to implement scaled leveling.

Nowadays you do 10 quests in a certain zone and you can move to the next one without finishing the storyline or exploring the full zone, which I think it's one vital aspect of an MMO, doing that feels good and makes you feel more connected to Azeroth, instead of doing some quests and dungeons that aren't connected.

So if all the zones were like the Broken Isles ones, you wouldn't need to change zones constantly¡

2- Cataclysm Azeroth is already older than Vanilla Azeroth. In a MMO, I think that everybody would love to see the world in which we live evolve, that our actions have an impact; and next expansion is the perfect chance to do that (more about this in the next points).

3- They finally introduced in Legion the tutorial for new players (Broken Shore event), so I say that every new PJ should start in the Broken Isles. I know that is a crazy change, but that would allow them to make a single timeline, and leveling isn't that important these days, they give us a free max character with every expansion ¡

4- The lore moment is perfect ¡ They could combine the Legion invasion (which we know that it's having consecuences in all Azeroth, not just the Broken Isles) with Azshara / Old Gods invasion from the seas¡

We know that we will face Azshara / N'Zoth eventually, why they wouldn't attack us now? After invading Argus, we are weak, victory over the Legion isn't easy, and we still have to clean their remains on Azeroth, it's the perfect time for them to strike¡

These could lead to major new storylines in all continents ¡ Even in Outland, I would love to see whats happening there (although latest reports seems to establish that it's disappearing, but that's ok, less work for Blizzard). Not really sure about what to do with Draenor TBH, it's just to recent to change it.

So this would obviously be the main issue, revamping all continents at the same time would be a enormous task, I don't see them making it in one single expansion, so I thought that they might try a new approach, establishing in the map an ''Old Azeroth / Outland'' (the ones which we have today) and ''New Azeroth /Outland'', in which they can start revamping Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms, and after a while Northend, Outland and the rest, maybe in patches?

FINAL PRODUCT: I think that it would be something like this:

100-110: new characters starts in the Broken Isles, scale tech still applyes, so when you are 110 you can move to the new zones.
110-120: revamped Kalimdor / Eastern Kingdoms (including Cata zones).

FINAL PRODUCT II: another chance would be something like:

1-110: revamped Kalimdor / Eastern Kingdoms (including Cata zones) and the Broken Isles. The Legion Invasion it's a single story, so this continents could be shared.
110-120: new continent.

FINAL PRODUCT III: I would love to see this one but I think that it's the most complicated because of how the timeline would feel:

1-60: revamped Kalimdor / Eastern Kingdoms (including Cata zones) and the Broken Isles (starting in your race zones, not in the Broken Isles).
60-110: revamped Outland / Northrend / Pandaria /Draenor? (with one continent you could reach the level for the new expansion, with new storylines in all of them, ideal for leveling alts¡).
110-120: new continent.

Now that we talk about levels, this are just numbers, I think that is hard for a new player to see that the max level is 110, so a revamped leveling system would be nice. As I say, our level is just a number, and while we are leveling, many levels doesn´t give us shit, not a talent, not a skill, and it's boring. So why don't put the max level in 60 or 70, and scale the zones according to that level? Just give it a thought.

Anyway I may edit this post later because I'm probably forgetting things, just let me know what do you think¡

[Makorus]

They said they wont revamp old stuff extensively anymore.

The most is level scaling in Pre-MoP zones.

[Darkarath]

Really? I though that Ion said in a recent interview that with the scaling tech they were thinking about how to implement it, that the main problem was how to do it, and then he mentioned something about two Azeroth versions, I shall find the quote.

[Super Kami Dende]

Really? I though that Ion said in a recent interview that with the scaling tech they were thinking about how to implement it, that the main problem was how to do it, and then he mentioned something about two Azeroth versions, I shall find the quote.

2 Azeroth Versions Yes. 1 With Scaling tech, One with original leveling. Not 2 different Azeroths.

[derpkitteh]

i wish they'd get the guts to update the world more often.

were i in charge, i would mandate that it be kept up to date.

they need to go over the world and bring it into post-legion next expansion, and attach quel'thalas and the draenei isles to azeroth and update them as well.

[Traveler Voltin]

Hell no to the scaling tech.

But yes everything should be revamped

[Darkarath]

Why no to the scaling tech? The world would feel way better IMO

[Deleted]

That would be AWESOME, if they also revamp grapics, textures, npc, trees, rocks, skyboxes, mobs, the old round simily-mountains, if they rebuilt broken buildings ( Stonewrought Dam...)...

[Orangetai420]

I would prefer they didn't waste time revamping questlines or anything like that. However I would love it if they applied scaling to the entire world in brackets (like your 3rd suggestion). We should be able to choose where to level, for example Outlands and Northrend should be the same level bracket.

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That would be AWESOME, if they also revamp grapics, textures, npc, trees, rocks, skyboxes, mobs, the old round simily-mountains, if they rebuilt broken buildings ( Stonewrought Dam...)...

Ehh wasted time IMO. The artists' time is very valuable. Would rather see this effort spent on new content. The old stuff would be fine if they would just scale it appropriately.

[Deleted]

100% aggree. They don't do anything because of the people whining every time something from classic wow changes. They don't want to admit that these 14 years old graphics /quests are outdated, and should be revamped.
Skipping the old content with a level boost isn't the solution.
More of that revamping the old World would surely make play a lot of people, who are intrested in the enigmatic wow they heard about but don't want to step in because of the graphics and quests.
An expac on the old continents would be cool.

Why would this game be torn apart an old World and a new World when it could be one?

- - - Updated - - -

I would prefer they didn't waste time revamping questlines or anything like that. However I would love it if they applied scaling to the entire world in brackets (like your 3rd suggestion). We should be able to choose where to level, for example Outlands and Northrend should be the same level bracket.

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Ehh wasted time IMO. The artists' time is very valuable. Would rather see this effort spent on new content. The old stuff would be fine if they would just scale it appropriately.

The thing is that we player of wow are used to this old World, but don't realise how much it would win of a revamp. We ask for new zones and content because we already experienced the old one, but with a revamp they could make brand new content while improving the old one, but not deleting it.

[A Chozo]

Maybe Old World-World Quests, where one zone from each expansion (2 for classic) would be randomlly selected to freature world quests and the scaling-tech. Something seasonal, maybe.

[Orangetai420]

The thing is that we player of wow are used to this old World, but don't realise how much it would win of a revamp. We ask for new zones and content because we already experienced the old one, but with a revamp they could make brand new content while improving the old one, but not deleting it.

As a vet player that lived through cata, I'm gunna have to disagree. Even though the old world revamp was "new content" it added nothing to the endgame. I would take a full continent of new zones over a revamp any day of the week.

[Raetary]

a revamp would only make sense.
the legion burned us hard, and stormcaller myrla said during the shaman quests that the twilight highlands got overrun.

thunder bluff also has infernal problems.


but i doubt they'd do that tho.
not after what happened in cata.

[Traveler Voltin]

Why no to the scaling tech? The world would feel way better IMO

lets make leveling even more pointless.

[Darkarath]

I couldn't find Ion's comment on two Azeroth versions, but I find this from an recent Icy-Veins interview:

Speaking a little bit on the world quest system and the scaling. The potential of doing the scaling across Azeroth is it on the table? If so, what would it take to make it done?

It's on the table, it's a lot of work. It's something we'd love to do. It's a huge undertaking. We've build a lot of Legion around this scaling framework and the old content would needed to be retrofitted. I think it's almost certainly something we're gonna do going forward and it's something we want to work on backward facing, it's probably something we'd ship in phases. It's a very big undertaking to just go do it all. It's both creature combat, dungeons all the itemization all those dungeons and quests. It's all doable it's just a question of finding the resources to make it happen without detracting from development and forward facing of cutting-edge content.

I think that this pretty much confirms future scaled leveling, I just hope that they won't lose the chance to make a new revamp with it.

Let's think long-term. WoW is staying for long, it's going to be alive and with millions of players for years to come. Eventually they will need to revamp the leveling system, because when max level reachs 130, 140... The chance that new players event think about leveling that much is very small, and I know that they give us free max level characters with every new expansion, but that isn't solving the problem. Even for veteran players who want to level a new alt, those many levels are a pain in the ass.

What I'm saying is that another 'Cataclysm' is going to happen, sooner or later, but its has to happen. Could you imagine being level 150 and that Kalimdor stays the same as today? That NOTHING that we did, all our wars, had an impact? Thats a dead world, the lore and the stories have to move forward, and there are plenty of them in every continent that we have visited.

I really hope that they don't waste the scaling tech with just scaling, they must use it while revamping.

[ravenmoon]

it's a bit silly to just do another revamp cata style, they really need to do a WoW 2. We all see the need for a revamp, and we also see that you can't do a WoW2 with wow doing still so well at this stage.

The only way forward I see is the middle ground of the two options. Finish this storyline, and start a new one, but rather than do it in a brand new title, do it as an epic expansion.

The story continues after the defeat of the burning legion and skips a few decades ahead. You have a recovered Azeroth world which is fully updated. And the story of the new threat begins.

- Levels are really arbitary, they mean nothing really, you will start at level 120, but all new players can start there too
- you continue your character ofc or start a new one, he's been in stasis or similar due to how the previous volume ended and awakes for the new threat to see an Azeroth much changed.
- you still have access to 1-120 by starting a new character ofc, it won't be like classic, but like LotRO everything will be phased to future Azeroth. New players would be given the option to download the earlier world, whiles existing players can either keep it or ditch it, the new files won't need them.

WoW will be known as volume 1, the revamp as volume 2.

The trick is to do it in such a way that you don't have 2 separate games running and competing with themselves, but one is a continuation of the other and everyone moves into it - this is what Expansions do, yet it would be a newly built world zone with new quests, epic story telling etc, in the same world, just done much better, improved and looking new.

Imagine Quel'thalas, Darkshore, Ashenvale, Barrens, Lordaeron, Khaz Modan, northrend, Broken Isles, all with bustling civilizations of elves, men, dwarves, orcs, trolls, gnomes, etc. Draenor is also around, so i guess while Azeroth will have Orcs and Draenei - Draenor would be there too.

[Deleted]

As much as I would love to see a revitalized classic Azeroth - it won't happen again anytime soon. Cataclysm was an experiment and they weren't really convinced by the outcome.

Too many ressources would be needed to tidy up the very outdated content and graphics. And to be honest: Leveling is not relevant anymore in this stage of the product lifecycle (level boost for new players). They're only updating things and stuff (old models e.g.) if they're going to use it in an upcoming expansion. Just take a look at the vanilla landscape compared to the legion environment. The amount of detail that was put into zones like Suramar is mind-blowing. No other zone in the whole game looks that freakin' good, especially not the starting areas in Durotar, Mulgore or Dun Morogh.

Actually I think they would love to do it, but they don't have the time and money to bring the game design level on par and future expansions are much more important.

What I would love to see is some sort of community contest, where players could submit their own remodelings for outdated structures. The best one wins and gets implemented into the game :-)

[ravenmoon]

As much as I would love to see a revitalized classic Azeroth - it won't happen again anytime soon. Cataclysm was an experiment and they weren't really convinced by the outcome.

Too many ressources would be needed to tidy up the very outdated content and graphics. And to be honest: Leveling is not relevant anymore in this stage of the product lifecycle (level boost for new players). They're only updating things and stuff (old models e.g.) if they're going to use it in an upcoming expansion. Just take a look at the vanilla landscape compared to the legion environment. The amount of detail that was put into zones like Suramar is mind-blowing. No other zone in the whole game looks that freakin' good, especially not the starting areas in Durotar, Mulgore or Dun Morogh.

Actually I think they would love to do it, but they don't have the time and money to bring the game design level on par and future expansions are much more important.

What I would love to see is some sort of community contest, where players could submit their own remodelings for outdated structures. The best one wins and gets implemented into the game :-)

read what i wrote above, i can see them doing something like that - but it's something they would have already started working on up to the next expansion and the one after. They would have initiated a "new project" who's development cycle is roughly 5 years, which started just before legion, and would carry on through this expansion, the next one and possibly 1 more after the ARgus expansion, by which time the new wow world will be available to insert.

i can see races, sub-races, classes, prestige and hero also available - new stuff. Current titles are just making wow look super dated, and VR is becoming a thing, they have to adapt.

[Darkarath]

it's a bit silly to just do another revamp cata style, they really need to do a WoW 2. We all see the need for a revamp, and we also see that you can't do a WoW2 with wow doing still so well at this stage.

The only way forward I see is the middle ground of the two options. Finish this storyline, and start a new one, but rather than do it in a brand new title, do it as an epic expansion.

The story continues after the defeat of the burning legion and skips a few decades ahead. You have a recovered Azeroth world which is fully updated. And the story of the new threat begins.

I think that your idea is similar in some ways about one model that I mentioned. You can't separate WoW into WoW and WoW 2, and of course you cannot do a WoW 2 with WoW doing so well. So do two Azeroth versions.

One version will be the one that we have today, the other one would appear on our maps as future Azeroth, or Azeroth year 40, or whatever. They could add some zones of Kalimdor and some of the Eastern Kingdoms as max level zones, and through patches keep adding the rest with new storylines.

I don't see the big time jump that you mentioned happening because right now there are too many inminent threats that won't wait 40 years to make their move (mostly Azshara and the Old Gods).

BTW someone talked about subraces, another excellent reason to revamp Azeroth again. They had already said that they're working on them and that is something that will happen. Implementing them with another revamp would be perfect.

[DeicideUH]

Revamping content is unlikely. They won't revamp content if that means limiting new content. They did that in Cata and it didn't work out.

However, I could see an expansion that introduces a new, updated version of an existing continent, like Eastern Kingdoms. You could then phase back in time to the original version. The new version would be high-level expansion content. Already existing tech could allow the capital cities to be shared between both versions, so high and low level players that go into Stormwind would be in the same place, instead of us getting 2 Stormwinds.