Why Vanilla WoW?

[pateuvasiliu]

Sense of community, world PvP, reliance on teamwork in dungeons, unique stuff like hunter pets having special abilities if they are rare spawns, epics/rares meaning more, mounts being less common, levelling being hard work, etc.

[Sansnom]

What do we have now ? Because currently we don't have true online video RPG anymore.

Besides Ultima Online, what true RPG online game is there? Even the most basic form of RPG of choosing how quests can be completed are not possible. WoW was never an RPG, now or even during Vanilla because there never was any role to play. You pick up quests and complete in the direction given. There never were any choices. SwToR attempt to give some choices at least.

So I am confused about players claiming better RPG during Vanilla. What RPG element where there that is not available now? I did not play during Vanilla. I started during TBC.

- - - Updated - - -

Because also, for plenty people it wasn't, and they remember vanilla in good light. The whole argument is a pointless generalization. The whole disgregard of people feelings toward something, as nostalgia is not only condescending, but outright missing the point for the most part.

But you consider it "hilarious" that for some, WoW is their introduction to the MMO, which itself is kind of a condescending attitude.

[Absintheminded]

I don't think people are arguing that it's the best, per se, but there is a completeness to it that adding expansions to later sort of tarnished. Plus, with no known timeline for expansions, the entire world to explore and do quests, etc. it really felt like there was no hurry to hit 60. I did try my hardest to level up fast, but I saw everything doing it.


Having said that, I think TBC was the best expansion. Content was still difficult, it had IMO the best iteration of the LFG tool, both factions had pally/shaman, a lot of balance and mechanical issues from Vanilla had been worked on, Arena was bad ass, crafting remained relevent the throughout the entire expansion (until Sunwell probably), exclusive raids for different raid sizes... I could go on. Ultimately it's opionated. It was also one of the expansion I had the most time to play.

[AmbientEpicuros]

U know? Nostalgia. Pretty much just this.

And probably becouse some people miss the old vanilla more rpg-like old style gameplay, even if it would be broken, unbalanced and bordeline unplayable for moder's day standards.

This. And I'd say it was more individual when it came to knowing others. Like in army, it was pretty much a new experience for everyone with real challenges what made us to group up. Giving trust and distrust to some players. It was more "real" MMO. Sort of.

[Deleted]

Tbh I am not sure if "modern" vanilla servers could handle any of my pro-arguments.
Sadly we don't have any stats of leveling time, how many people raid and how many people want to track combat logs. I would really be interested in these data.

[Grimalkin of Old]

No, it's not just nostalgia. Vanilla, TBC and Wrath were built as RPG games (mostly), with all the implications from that design. After that the focus has shifted, and later expansion were built more and more like action/arcade games, with all the implications from *that* design. And since there's no official announcement for the focus shift from Blizzard, people are still expecting to see more RPG elements in following expansions, not less.

[Deleted]

Most vanilla supporters

the great majority of the vanilla population are long gone from the game, the people that actually played it (meaning got to 60, geared themselves and took part of the endgame experience), are in large part gone. simply because they've aged out of this particular category of games and have entirely different priorities in life today.

the age bracket that is the driving force behind raiding today, is the same that it was 12+ years ago. people between 18-26 only difference is that those 18-26 form 12 years ago have been replaced with new generations.

if you were to create a 'legacy' platform it would likely struggle immensly to even sustain a population past a million subscribers. simply because the young kids today have an entirely different view of 'fun' then people did 12 years ago.

blizzard is a publicly traded company, they are in the business of making money. they have market research teams that do studies on these type of things all the time, if the 'foundation' (in terms of playerbase) was there to build on for a legacy platform, to a point where it would be a profitable endevaour, it would have happened already.

simple supply & demand alone dictates that. you will however though more then likely get some sort of legacy platform when blizzard moves on from this iteration of 'warcraft' which will probably happen sometime in the next few years. i see at most 2 expansions more, maybe even 1.

[Demithio]

Why Vanilla? It was the"imperfections" that made the game a hit.

[Shridevi]

Everything has a price.

In BC Blizzard allows alliance to play shamans and horde to play paladins, everyone loves it at the time, it is awesome, but the cost is that the game becomes less of an RPG.

Alternatively, what if ally and horde continued to get more classes unique to each faction? It would be less "balanced," arena would make less sense, but in some ways it would be more immersive and cooler. It might enhance the RPG at the cost of hurting the esport parts of the game.

Even when you standardize simple things, make all specs viable, make sense of the chaos for the sake of the players, there is an associated cost -- the game has less personality. Most people loved it when the gryphons bugged in vanilla, it was funny.

It's not Blizzard's fault for making common sense choices which please the community and evolve the gameplay. Honestly, some of their quality-of-life or time-saving choices probably saved a few jobs and marriages among the fans. It is Blizzard's fault for not providing legacy options to players who like the old way. We are talking the bare minimum here. What if Blizzard recognized this earlier, made legacy servers, and continued to make content for vanilla in the RPG style of gameplay? It has been done before.

[Deleted]

But you consider it "hilarious" that for some, WoW is their introduction to the MMO, which itself is kind of a condescending attitude.

Now i am going to be condescending, your reading comprehension really has some troubles. The timeframe of the comments summed up was:

- WoW was their first MMORPG that's what they felt it is better, because nostalgia.
- WoW wasn't the first MMORPG for plenty of the people who actually like vanilla, you are doing a generalization, which in return turns out to be condescending aswell and misses the point (which is, the features or lack of features which people liked).
- Now you are being condescending at people who wasn't their first MMORPG.
- Dafuq ?

I mean, i understand you are doing it just for argueing's sake, but it is certainly amusing the lengths of the mental gymnastics some people do in such a short span of responses.

[Demithio]

Everything has a price.

In BC Blizzard allows alliance to play shamans and horde to play paladins, everyone loves it at the time, it is awesome, but the cost is that the game becomes less of an RPG.

Alternatively, what if ally and horde continued to get more classes unique to each faction? It would be less "balanced," arena would make less sense, but in some ways it would be more immersive and cooler. It might enhance the RPG at the cost of hurting the esport parts of the game.

Even when you standardize simple things, make all specs viable, make sense of the chaos for the sake of the players, there is an associated cost -- the game has less personality. Most people loved it when the gryphons bugged in vanilla, it was funny.

It's not Blizzard's fault for making common sense choices which please the community and evolve the gameplay. Honestly, some of their quality-of-life or time-saving choices probably saved a few jobs and marriages among the fans. It is Blizzard's fault for not providing legacy options to players who like the old way. We are talking the bare minimum here. What if Blizzard recognized this earlier, made legacy servers, and continued to make content for vanilla in the RPG style of gameplay? It has been done before.

You hit it on the nail head with all except maybe for the last paragraph. Blizzard should have found a batter balance in the game between easier access and completely axing all RPG elements. They basically went to extremes with eliminating anything that resembled the original formula. This was never necessary, and there would be no need for legacy servers had Blizzard done a better job of balancing. They had a fairly good formula during early Wotlk, but then went full assault on anything that even resembled "inconvenience" thereafter, which seemed to intensify with each subsequent expansion. What we have today is a game with absolutely no personality, no depth, and no thought provoking processes.

[Matthias]

You hit it on the nail head with all except maybe for the last paragraph. Blizzard should have found a batter balance in the game between easier access and completely axing all RPG elements. They basically went to extremes with eliminating anything that resembled the original formula. This was never necessary, and there would be no need for legacy servers had Blizzard done a better job of balancing. They had a fairly good formula during early Wotlk, but then went full assault on anything that even resembled "inconvenience" thereafter, which seemed to intensify with each subsequent expansion. What we have today is a game with absolutely no personality, no depth, and no thought provoking processes.

Convenience is Bane of the MMORPG Genre
Part of what made WoW so addicting was the fact that the game didn't revolve around you. When you logged off the world still persisted making you wonder what adventures you could possibly be missing.

Can't be denied though things took far longer back then to put a group together. And in a pug you weren't guaranteed to clear the place. Many times you would have to call it quits for spamming in trade chat. Where as even if I pug a 12 key as long as people are good ilvl I know we'll clear it, just maybe not in timer.

I always say Blizz shot themselves in the foot with WoTLK because since then they haven't been able to keep up with the demand for content. Because things took so much longer to complete back then I'd say that Blizzard have let another 2 years pass before releasing TBC. Meanwhile WoTLK could have waited about year, before it's release.

[wych]

People need to stop thinking everybody views gaming and the world exactly the same as they do, it's the same arrogance that Blizzard showed with "You think you do, but you don't".

For me the world feels way more alive and immersive in Vanilla. I feel like i'm playing an MMORPG.

Are the graphics as good? Are all of the loot personally optimised for my spec/class? Are the dungeons as perfectly crafted? Do all of the bosses have unique mechanics? Is every quest hub optimised to send you through the zone as perfectly as possible? No. But there's a magic there that the current game simply does not have anymore for a lot of people.

There's a reason a private server is having to open a 4th Vanilla realm because the demand and queues are far too great for the current realms, and dismissing it as just "nostalgia" is dumb and overly simplistic. I'm having a ton of fun on private servers, and can't see myself playing retail anytime soon

[Eazy]

Vanilla gave a chance to have an adventure whilst later on it became mindless faceroll.

Exactly this. The game wasn't facerolling to the max level in a few days.

[Akka]

Besides Ultima Online, what true RPG online game is there? Even the most basic form of RPG of choosing how quests can be completed are not possible. WoW was never an RPG, now or even during Vanilla because there never was any role to play. You pick up quests and complete in the direction given. There never were any choices. SwToR attempt to give some choices at least.

So I am confused about players claiming better RPG during Vanilla. What RPG element where there that is not available now? I did not play during Vanilla. I started during TBC.

I agree with your point about "playing a role".
The "RPG elements" people talk about are more about how Vanilla was more geared toward "immersion". Lots of fluff and mechanisms that existed only to provide a feeling of belonging to an existing world, and have been progressively removed or butchered to make room for balance and convenience.
Things like rogue having to brew their poison, skelettons, constructs and non-corporeal mob immune to bleeds, elementals immune to their own elements, a world which put a lot of emphasis on size and travel instead of teleportation everywhere, etc.

[Paranoid Android]

I wish I had a chance to play Vanilla. I started at the start of TBC (I think 1 patch in). I did get a little of the experience. Leveling was still a grind. Dungeons were hard. Had a community.

I would have loved the "newness" and epic feel of starting out and gaining the full WoW MMO experience.

[wych]

I wish I had a chance to play Vanilla. I started at the start of TBC (I think 1 patch in). I did get a little of the experience. Leveling was still a grind. Dungeons were hard. Had a community.

I would have loved the "newness" and epic feel of starting out and gaining the full WoW MMO experience.

You still can, there's very popular private servers active right now with 50k+ players

[Deleted]

I can get people looking back at how it was fun then, but what of the thousands arguing for vanilla servers now? That just sounds awful.

Sounds awful to you perhaps, but not to the thousands of people who played on a very popular not to be named private server.

[Paranoid Android]

You people cannot help yourself. This thread is going to be closed in...

[Darsithis]

We don't allow discussion of private server here. Telling people to join, talking about a private server's population, or your experiences on it isn't allowed.

Closing.