[Megathread] Mass Effect Andromeda

[Witchblade77]

I really liked animations in Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning, they looked very genuine, and I'm 99% sure they used some kind of expensive mocap. That said, the cutscenes (except for a few pre-rendered ones) there only showed two people standing and talking, nothing as complex as Tali's "wooooooo", for example, so, again, it would be surprising if that game had poorer animations.

kingdoms of amaleur had pretty standard animations. it just wasn't as obvious becasue rather then super expensive mocap - they were helped a long by stylized look of the game so there wasn't as much of an uncanny valley going on.

[endersblade]

I mean, I grew up on games with animations like this:



Modern RPGs have animations way surpassing anything I would ever want from a video game. I can understand people disliking animations that are just wrong, like, I don't know, in Fallout: New Vegas weapon on your back not being strapped to you visually and just hanging in the air... But some minor jittering, or running animation cycle which seems strange to you, is really not something I see as worth paying any attention to.

I haven't played any of the games you've mentioned here, but, for example, I didn't see Witcher 3 or Doom animations as any superior to ME3 ones - well, aside from the graphical fidelity being much higher, of course.

But your argument doesn't hold water. That game was made, what, 20+ years ago? There weren't a lot of expectations as far as animations go back then. We took what we could get.

Now a days though, in a world where we can make CG characters that can pass off as human-like, we sort of expect a certain level of animation to go along with it. Especially when a company like Bioware has done it properly BEFORE, why the regress? That isn't acceptable, and there is zero reason to make excuses for it. If you're going to promote a game with 'lifelike' looking characters, the animations need to be part of that package. Provide us with wonky animation mistakes that we'd expect from games from the 90s, and your game is going to bomb.

[ati87]

Remastered Mass Effect would be the best announcement coming closer to Andromeda release date. Also I REALLY hope multiplayer is completely separate from the single player aspect. I love a good online component but good lord, don't mix it up. They almost messed it up.

Bioware isn't really that big though, I would be more excited for a new game then having them remaster the trilogy. Also we are talking about EA, not sure how many people would be willing to buy ME games when number 2 and 3 are still decent.

[Lahis]

Bioware isn't really that big though, I would be more excited for a new game then having them remaster the trilogy. Also we are talking about EA, not sure how many people would be willing to buy ME games when number 2 and 3 are still decent.

Well knowing EA, I think they would release a "remaster" for currect gen consoles, but without actually upgrading any of the assets.

[xerus]

Anyone know if there are mods for ME1? I'm planning to replay the trilogy soon in preparation for Andromeda but I just know 1 is going to be brutal to replay with how...clunky some of it is(I'm looking at you Mako)but I don't want to just skip it because its still an incredible game.

Not aware of any gameplay mods, but there are user created graphic updates for all 3 games that are easy to apply and make them all look pretty decent.

Replayed the trilogy a few months ago, still really like it.

[May90]

But your argument doesn't hold water. That game was made, what, 20+ years ago? There weren't a lot of expectations as far as animations go back then. We took what we could get.

Now a days though, in a world where we can make CG characters that can pass off as human-like, we sort of expect a certain level of animation to go along with it. Especially when a company like Bioware has done it properly BEFORE, why the regress? That isn't acceptable, and there is zero reason to make excuses for it. If you're going to promote a game with 'lifelike' looking characters, the animations need to be part of that package. Provide us with wonky animation mistakes that we'd expect from games from the 90s, and your game is going to bomb.

I understand. I'm just saying that perhaps people have become too spoiled with fancy visuals, when animations from Mass Effect 3 look bad to them.

Also, when did Bioware do animations better than in their current games? Neverwinter Nights and KotoR animations were hilariously clunky, although understandable, given the time they were made; Jade Empire animations aren't a very big improvement; Mass Effect 1/2 animations are pretty much the same as in ME3, just less refined; Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2 animations weren't as complex as those encountered in ME games... I just don't quite understand what people refer to when saying that Mass Effect animations are bad; is there any other game with this level of complexity in cutscenes and their amount and diversity that did animations better? If so, I'd like to see it.

[Lahis]

I just don't quite understand what people refer to when saying that Mass Effect animations are bad; is there any other game with this level of complexity in cutscenes and their amount and diversity that did animations better? If so, I'd like to see it.

MAss Effect animations aren't terrible, but they aren't amazing either. Merely passable. Every species uses same movement animations, with the possible exception of Volus and naturally Hanar.

[May90]

MAss Effect animations aren't terrible, but they aren't amazing either. Merely passable. Every species uses same movement animations, with the possible exception of Volus and naturally Hanar.

Well, they are humanoid. Same way, in Witcher and Dragon Age games, elves, dwarves and humans are all using the same animations. It doesn't make much sense to give them unique animations just for the sake of it, IMO.

[Nerraw]

[Shadow Fox]

Blame your retailers.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...ed-on-a-friday

By chance is there a TL;DR version? That is a insanely long, and poorly edited page...

[Lahis]

Well, they are humanoid. Same way, in Witcher and Dragon Age games, elves, dwarves and humans are all using the same animations. It doesn't make much sense to give them unique animations just for the sake of it, IMO.

All Warcraft races are humanoid too, and they all have unique movement animations. Combat animations were unified on class basis in Legion for better visuals, and really, better gameplay.

The biggest thing in ME animations that bothers me is the legs of races digitigrade style legs. I mean, look at these guys:





They all have ankles/heels that are off the ground, yet in game they are animated exactly like humans. They should atleast do walk/run/crouch animations differently for digitigrades and plantigrades.

[Witchblade77]

bioware has a pool of animations basically, that they reuse in pretty much every game they make - they just combine them into sequences in cutscenes. I have seen the same animation of leaning on the table with both hands than pushing off with annoyance - in mass effect, dragon age AND SWTOR. same goes for pretty much most kissing your LI animations. and that's not the only ones either. they are decent enough animations.. if they weren't so limited and commonly used which is what makes them look a bit worse, especially in transitions since its the animation equivalent of prerecorded messages combining separate words into new sentences. original animations were likely mo-caped. they just don't mocap each individual new scene from scratch like say Naughty dog etc. it may be different in Andromeda. but.. honestly? most likely they just added a few extra animations to their pool of choices, but otherwise will be using the same "collage like" process. I'm ok with it, usually get used to it after about an hour of playing, same as with old school games where graphics might be jarring at first, but then I get into the groove of playing.

[May90]

All Warcraft races are humanoid too, and they all have unique movement animations. Combat animations were unified on class basis in Legion for better visuals, and really, better gameplay.

Warcraft... Where every race has a small set of animations, like running, cheering, waving and such, which are used repeatedly with no variation? Come on now. A WoW character model is probably less complex than a Krogan's right arm alone.

And, from what I've seen, Quarians move their legs in a different way than humans, for example. Their movements are more horse-like. Krogan run completely differently, which can be seen in ME1 when a Krogan is charging at you. And so on, and so on.

[Lahis]

Warcraft... Where every race has a small set of animations, like running, cheering, waving and such, which are used repeatedly with no variation? Come on now. A WoW character model is probably less complex than a Krogan's right arm alone.

And, from what I've seen, Quarians move their legs in a different way than humans, for example. Their movements are more horse-like. Krogan run completely differently, which can be seen in ME1 when a Krogan is charging at you. And so on, and so on.

Look at your squadmates. They all move exactly the same way, with few custom ones like Krogan's charge. I'd wager the number of animations for a ME rig is similar or smaller than one WoW race.

[May90]

Look at your squadmates. They all move exactly the same way, with few custom ones like Krogan's charge. I'd wager the number of animations for a ME rig is similar or smaller than one WoW race.

The number of facial animations for Asari alone is probably higher than the number of all WoW character animations combined. Running animations aren't very diverse, sure, but I don't see why they would be diverse for humanoid races. WoW can get away with it, because its animations are simplistic and their variety is small. In Mass Effect, making individual animations for Drell and human running seems like a waste of resources.

If you really want to compare an MMO animations to ME ones, I think you are better off looking at Guild Wars 2. Animations there are really diverse and unique for different races. But then, again, cutscenes in GW2 are pretty basic in comparison, so it is no wonder.

[I Push Buttons]

By chance is there a TL;DR version? That is a insanely long, and poorly edited page...

Basically way back when, one British retailer told businesses to have their deliveries ready by Friday so they could sell/advertise it over the weekend when everyone did their shopping. Shortly thereafter most stores and businesses across Europe started doing the same.

Fast forward to today and it is just the routine and it would require effort (however small) to change that routine, so no one really cares to do it.

---
And the article doesn't state it, but digital distributors respect those "street" dates because publishers tell them to. Mostly to not hurt retail sales/stagger release. IE: The game launching on Tuesday on Steam, and thus no one buying it at retail because why wait three days to play the game? Or the game launching early on Steam to problems/bad reviews/controversy/etc., and then that hurting retail sales days later...

So they just say Friday, the end, in the EU. Like Tuesday in the US (Tuesday was chosen for largely the same reason in the US, we're just bigger so it was logistically better to stock shelves earlier in the week to make sure everywhere had stock by the weekend).

[Witchblade77]

Technically - I never said synthesis =D

but you did say endings, plural and since some of the conversation kept shifting to synthesis and its requirements, I clarified the one specific ending that was not achievable. upon reading back the thread - I probably should have quoted another post. for more clarity all around.

[Witchblade77]

Kay =( I'll hire a lawyer next time I make a post to make sure everything is in order…

Edited: well… shite.

But srly now, synthesis ending was a mistake anyway, it should be against the forum rules to even discuss it =D

lol, I will not argue with that, but seriously that was a brain derp from posting too late in a night. people kept talking about not being able to get synthesis and there are actualy people out there that consider it a perfect ending, particularly the guy that designed it (to each their own and all, but /shudder /forcibly stops self from going on a synthesis rant) aaaanywho.

[May90]

Become essentially an immortal, get the best of both worlds: feelings, emotions, love and such native to organics, and physical capabilities, unimaginable intelligence, immortality - in one... And even more so, be networked with all other living beings in the galaxy, being able to share all the feelings and thoughts with each other. No crime, no poverty, no wars, no heated arguments over nothing.

If this is not a perfect ending, then I don't know what is.

[Witchblade77]

Become essentially an immortal, get the best of both worlds: feelings, emotions, love and such native to organics, and physical capabilities, unimaginable intelligence, immortality - in one... And even more so, be networked with all other living beings in the galaxy, being able to share all the feelings and thoughts with each other. No crime, no poverty, no wars, no heated arguments over nothing.

If this is not a perfect ending, then I don't know what is.

do you really want me to start on implications of this ending?

immortality. you are assuming immortality but lets pretend there IS immortality. what... do we do about children. stop having them? because immortality plus children= rapidly depleting resources. or did this change take away ability to have kids?
increased intelligence - another assumption.
networked... like the borg? becasue this is what it really comes down to. people (and for the sake of this post - when I say people, I'm referring to all sentient races of the galaxy) didn't get a choice whether they wanted to become this reaper hybrid.. thing or be networked, shepard just made up his or her mind to forcibly change the entire galaxy.
and apparently that change brought on peace. now - the message of the game was "strength in diversity" even freaking Javik harps on about protheans losing the war despite their tech advancements and organization - becasue they were too homogenous. but its not just game three. the message of unity through diversity NOT homogeneity - started in ME1. what synthesis does - is remove all that. moreover.. it has to cardinally change everyone's brains to make them all similar. because when you have enemies that are suddenly best friends, all working together through a beam of green light? no I don't think people suddenly got enlightened. people got BRAINWASHED. like with the borg. and don't even get me started on all the rest of the flora and fauna that got forcibly changed. there are leaves with circuitry now - does that mean they are also connected to us? can we even eat them anymore, and if lets assume we for whatever don't need to eat - I don't know about you, but food is not merely a sustenance to me, its also pleasure and the though of never having chocolate again is NOT a pleasant one, and if synthesis makes me not want it - that's even more evidence of BRAINWASHING.

those are the implications of synthesis in overview. perfect nightmare maybe.

the truth is.. there is no perfect ending in ME3. they all suck, IMO. last I played I did so with MEHEM mod, because as generic as that ending is- you know what? I don't mind bittersweet (yes bittersweet, people still died, and it still ends with a memorial for the dead) predictable ending that at least doesn't leave a bad taste in my mouth.

maker, its been years and I can STILL get angry at ME3. ugg.

oh and just remembered what else pissed me off about that mess, especially post EC, when they took implications and made EDI voice them. EDI's development across 3 game (yes 3, she is the Luna AI that gained sentience - from side mission in ME1) and to a degree - Legions was a cross between "do androids dream of electric ship" and "Ghost in a shell" and further into ME3 EDI actual accepts that despite not being organic she is a person and IS alive. its further collaborated through Geth story-line - both through flashbacks and Legion's character. and then synthesis undermines that entire development by essentially stating that you HAVE to be organic, or it doesn't count. sigh.