Capitalism Is Collapsing -- and Nothing Is Rising to Replace It

[falagar112]

Depends on where you want something to rise up. In the US Capitalism is worshiped as a religion, and anything that isn't capitalism, especially Socialism is demonized. If something new will rise up, I expect it'd be in Asia.

I expect Iceland, pirate party almost won last elections, prime minister resigned after said elections. Also one of the very few (only?) countries where they jailed the bankers responsible for the Icesave crash in 2008, rather then bailing them out. They are slowly going away from the capitalistic model.

If India their basic income actually ends up working, I can see some major changes in that country happening as well. Time will tell.

As for the USA, you are right - I'm not an american so I cannot speak for you guys and girls, but what I do know is that "the american dream" needs capitalism to function, so I can totally see why it is such a big "thing" for you. And honestly, I don't care, you can keep your shit if you want it haha, just don't force it down other peoples throats

[Deleted]

One very common misconception about anarchism is that "no gods, no boss, no masters" isn't exactly true.
One can have leaders in an anarchistic community. The difference is that those people are considered leaders by the others because of their skill sets, and not because they are son/daughter of x, were born into wealth, are your monarchs, or are your "bosses".

A tribal community in the amazons that have "leaders" (elders) that are leaders because the tribe values their wisdom and perspective, is a good example of an anarchistic society. The elders don't rule the tribe, but the whole tribe does value his leadership. Another good example is say, you want to learn how to blacksmith, you go to someone that is a master blacksmith, you will have an apprentice/master relationship with that smith, in other words, you will have a leader. Anarchy is not against this whatsoever. It merely gives you the absolute freedom to follow whoever you want to follow, or to follow yourself, at no cost.

The actual phrase is "no gods, no master" from the French "Ni dieu ni maître!"

I do know that you can have leaders in an anarchistic society, i never claimed that you can't. The point is that the basis of anarchism lies the questioning of current social structures and ask the simple question "is your existence valid". When the social structures existence can not be validated it has to be dismantled and raised from the bottom. This is not a plan, well it is if you call fucking up until you find something that works, a plan. It might be a viable way of living for a tribal society, but it is just not feasible in our current system.

Hold on to what is good and change that what isn't all sounds great for a election campaign, but it is far from a system of government or a plan on how to accomplish just that.

[Deleted]

yes the black market can exist with in any type of economic system but the point I made the black market its self is a capitalistic system

have you ever heard of a black market that use socialism or communism as it economic model?

sharing food with your family when it's rationed or otherwise not intended for them sounds like a non-capitalist black market to me.

or a village sharing resources in north korea, stuff like that.

[twiddler]

Lol no. Capitalism is not going away, it doesn't need to be saved...

Very much the point of my comment.

[Polygons]

Unite all countries into one country that focuses on space expansion!

[Glorious Leader]

One very common misconception about anarchism is that "no gods, no boss, no masters" isn't exactly true.
One can have leaders in an anarchistic community. The difference is that those people are considered leaders by the others because of their skill sets, and not because they are son/daughter of x, were born into wealth, are your monarchs, or are your "bosses".

A tribal community in the amazons that have "leaders" (elders) that are leaders because the tribe values their wisdom and perspective, is a good example of an anarchistic society. The elders don't rule the tribe, but the whole tribe does value his leadership. Another good example is say, you want to learn how to blacksmith, you go to someone that is a master blacksmith, you will have an apprentice/master relationship with that smith, in other words, you will have a leader. Anarchy is not against this whatsoever. It merely gives you the absolute freedom to follow whoever you want to follow, or to follow yourself, at no cost.

No gods, no boss, no master is exactly true. The principle value of anarchism is to be against hierarchy (i.e an archy). This is quite rightly why so called ancaps are not actually anarchsists since they supports the grossest and most hierarchical of power structures private property. Hving a boss is a hiearchy just like having a master or a god. Ergo no gods no boss no master is a perfectly accurate summation of anarchist thought and belief. Hell no gods no master is the title of guerins collected anarchist volume. It was on pamphlets handed out to working men and woman.

[Endus]

yes the black market can exist with in any type of economic system but the point I made the black market its self is a capitalistic system

have you ever heard of a black market that use socialism or communism as it economic model?

Others have already pointed out how you failed to read my last post properly, so I'll just focus here.

This is flat-out wrong. There is nothing about a black market that is inherently capitalistic. Nothing. It's a market, but that's irrelevant, because market action is not inherently capitalistic. Markets predate capitalist thinking by literally thousands of years.

Also, you want an example of a socialist or communist black market? The music/movie piracy market since the emergence of the Internet, which largely didn't rely on any exchange of money, but evaluated one's participation in that market through their responsible return to that market; many aggregators and such would (and some still do) manage membership based on their upload/download ratio, mandating that users seed a certain proportion, and rewarding big seeders and new uploaders with special bonuses. The entire system is intended to foster a mutually-supportive community who all cooperate for the benefit of all, and punishing those who seek to profit off that cooperation.

Just right off the top of my head.

And now, back to this earlier post;

Capitalism is the default economic system it is what evolves when no other economic system is forced

Capitalism was a new idea when Adam Smith wrote Wealth of Nations. It is in no way the "default economic system". If there was one such, that would be primitive communism, going by what we know of early hunter/gatherer social structures. Capitalism is a specific economic viewpoint, not some "default setting" of economics or some similar nonsense.

[Kezotar]

Capitalism was a new idea when Adam Smith wrote Wealth of Nations. It is in no way the "default economic system". If there was one such, that would be primitive communism, going by what we know of early hunter/gatherer social structures. Capitalism is a specific economic viewpoint, not some "default setting" of economics or some similar nonsense.

I think you should re-read everything about Adam Smith and Wealth of Nations.

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Depends on where you want something to rise up. In the US Capitalism is worshiped as a religion, and anything that isn't capitalism, especially Socialism is demonized. If something new will rise up, I expect it'd be in Asia.

Socialism demonized? Check out Norway. It's as we're living 50 years behind.

[Vyxn]

Capitalism was a new idea when Adam Smith wrote Wealth of Nations. It is in no way the "default economic system". If there was one such, that would be primitive communism, going by what we know of early hunter/gatherer social structures. Capitalism is a specific economic viewpoint, not some "default setting" of economics or some similar nonsense.

Capitalism has been around from the first time a cave man traded a hunk of meat for a stone spear head just because it wasn't named or described till much much later doesn't mean it didn't exist

[Endus]

Capitalism has been around from the first time a cave man traded a hunk of meat for a stone spear head just because it wasn't named or described till much much later doesn't mean it didn't exist

Well, it's also false. You're trying to argue that the concept of trade is somehow "capitalism", when that's clearly not the case, since trade exists as the basis for economics, period, not any particular system within that field.

And like the source in that quote you didn't read, those "cave men" were operating under a form of communism, not capitalism, based on everything we know today.

[Glorious Leader]

Capitalism has been around from the first time a cave man traded a hunk of meat for a stone spear head just because it wasn't named or described till much much later doesn't mean it didn't exist

Yea that aint capitalism. Those were largely gift exchange socities if they could be called even that. The state didnt even really form till the neolithic agricultural revolution.

[Tijuana]

@OP

Yeah, Capitalism is dying. In other news, Communism is working out great, and is spreading!

[Adolecent]

Yeah, Capitalism is dying. In other news, Communism is working out great, and is spreading!

Mabey much to your surprice, but there are many levels of redistributing wealth more equally without interfering too much with the competitive nature of capitalism.

Pure capitalism, like it's promoted by rightwingers, is deadly for a society.

[Tijuana]

Mabey much to your surprice, but there are many levels of redistributing wealth more equally without interfering too much with the competitive nature of capitalism.

Pure capitalism, like it's promoted by rightwingers, is deadly for a society.

All pure government systems are deadly for a society. Luckily, they have never actually existed. Every system is a mix.

[Gurluas]

I think you should re-read everything about Adam Smith and Wealth of Nations.

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Socialism demonized? Check out Norway. It's as we're living 50 years behind.

What are you talking about? Norway is a pretty good society. And it's the US.

[Adolecent]

Every system is a mix.

Some mixes are more in favour for a wider spectrum then others. And thats what this topic is about.

[Tijuana]

Some mixes are more in favour for a wider spectrum then others. And thats what this topic is about.

I agree. That is why it's confusing to me that you are bringing up "Pure Capitalism". It's doesn't exist, it never has, and it never will.

[Vyxn]

Yea that aint capitalism. Those were largely gift exchange socities if they could be called even that. The state didnt even really form till the neolithic agricultural revolution.

what does having a state have a dam thing to do with capitalism as a matter of fact capitalism is one of the very few if not the only economic systems that can operate with out a state

[Alydael]

I disagree totally.

The dems did their best to bury capitalism for the eight years of Obama and they nearly succeeded.

Trump isn't even in office yet and already, just in anticipation of the dems and Obama being gone, capitalism is roaring back!

I do think capitalism needs some work, maybe an "evolution" of sorts, to modernize it more- but it is far better than any alternatives offered.*

* I am referring to the evidence as demonstrated by real life practices. Not philosophical meanderings on how an alternate system might work in an ideal situation, because- philosophical meanderings will not help put food on the table. I am talking about different systems that have actually been tried by countries in practice.

[Endus]

what does having a state have a dam thing to do with capitalism as a matter of fact capitalism is one of the very few if not the only economic systems that can operate with out a state

You keep stating things that are just blatantly false, and the reason is because you have no idea what "capitalism" actually is. You think it's "trade", but that's not accurate in the least.

Capitalism is an economic system, and by definition cannot exist outside of a societal framework that supports such a system. That societal framework is the "state" in this particular point.