What made classic wow better than current?

[Kyanion]

I'm not drawing conclusions

You can't be serious...

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And back in Vanilla that largely failed. Most people didn't "see more content". Blizzard moved away from that approach because it didn't work.

People seem to ignore the true facts of Vanilla. MOST people in Vanilla NEVER raided, never stepped foot in the raid. Hell many of them never hit max level. The amount of casual players in Vanilla was shockingly high. But yet when a thread likes this come around you see the pro-Vanilla crowd talking about dungeons and raiding. Why? Because it is easier to get to and do those things on PS because it is on a later patch.

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You could do that in Vanilla too. I played paladin up to level 40-something and never had a quest i couldn't handle solo.

When I leveled my first character in Vanilla on day 1 launch there WAS no grouping for me because I outleveled the crowds early. I was able to play just enough in Open Beta before release to plot out my first 20 levels so I was able to cruise ahead.I never needed a group from the 1-60 level grind and I hit max level far before people that were grouping and doing dungeons.

I love how the Pro-Vanilla PS crowd just willfully ignores the solo players or casuals who didn't group. It is totally different on a PvP shitfest realm where the realm server population is many times higher than Blizzard would allow on at once. So many of these "Vanilla" experiences" people are getting on PS aren't really Vanilla. The amount of raiding in Vanilla 12 years ago vs PS is a very clear cut difference.

[Daedius]

Before LFG, people were more wary of their social standing within their realm... now everyone can act however they want because there's no repercussion to their behaviour.

[voidillusion]

You can't be serious...

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People seem to ignore the true facts of Vanilla. MOST people in Vanilla NEVER raided, never stepped foot in the raid. Hell many of them never hit max level. The amount of casual players in Vanilla was shockingly high. But yet when a thread likes this come around you see the pro-Vanilla crowd talking about dungeons and raiding. Why? Because it is easier to get to and do those things on PS because it is on a later patch.

Ppl kind of ignore that because that has nothing to do with the way the game was designed, and what was fundamentally different than it is now, note, i say different ok? And even if we were to give the relevance to that fact you seem to want, yes lots of ppl didnt even saw raids and reached max lvl yaddayadd your repetitive speach, still, it was good enough for them to keep them entertained and make the game explode for its gendre standards in the following two expansions, so apparently, that wasn't bad, and ppl actually were having fun taking their sweet time just moving along.

[Kyanion]

If you did that then it was either post expansion, or you skipped the elite quests/zones or you basicly did them way past your lvl. You can skip them perfectly sure, but each zone havin X elite quests/zones encourage ppl to group up to complete them, you can say it is for rewards, i say its for progression. I'm in Redridge, my remaining 2 quests there are elite ones, mid 20s you won't search for groups for rewards unless they are really awesome, you do it for completion, the journey as many call it, and even if it was for the rewards that says miles about game design where you go about your way to group up for some quests to get a damn green item! I find this so obvious that's trully hard to understand how and why some ppl can't see this.

And that is what people did in Vanilla on launch when they outlevelled the groups of people. They soloed their way to max level far before anyone else that was grouping caught up to them. Sure there were group quests out there with rewards that were worthwhile to do but if you couldn't group because you were 42 and no one else was in your zone because you outleveled them, you had to skip it and move on.

And there were plenty of people in 'real Vanilla' that weren't doing quests for the 'journey' they were doing them because they awarded good exp or better rewards. The people doing it for the 'journey' are like people that achievement grind in WoW.

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A lot of blame goes to Blizzard for the decline in community as the game gets older. Don't forget it wasn't only that the game introduced a lot of people to MMO games for the first time. But the Internet back then was also in it's infancy state not everyone was toxic memer as we have it today.

There were limited information on the game also compared to today so you need to explore a bunch of stuff yourself.

Would you like a link to some of the toxic shitfests on some Everquest servers before WoW rolled around? The amount of toxicity back then wasn't much different than the levels of toxicity now. It has just evolved a little bit. You act like Vanilla was some paradise where no one was an asshole. Some people paid for it because they got blacklisted but then again server transfers became a thing in the latter half of Vanilla so some people just left and went to torment other servers.

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Before LFG, people were more wary of their social standing within their realm... now everyone can act however they want because there's no repercussion to their behaviour.

It wasn't quite THAT harsh in Vanilla. Like I said before some people paid for being douches but there was escapes for those people in place be it super large servers that had free server transfers options so they could leave or paid services to leave in the latter half of Vanilla.

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Ppl kind of ignore that because that has nothing to do with the way the game was designed, and what was fundamentally different than it is now, note, i say different ok? And even if we were to give the relevance to that fact you seem to want, yes lots of ppl didnt even saw raids and reached max lvl yaddayadd your repetitive speach, still, it was good enough for them to keep them entertained and make the game explode for its gendre standards in the following two expansions, so apparently, that wasn't bad, and ppl actually were having fun taking their sweet time just moving along.

Sure some people enjoyed the game for what it was, but many of the arguments in these forums seem to revolve around progression raiding, raiding in general and dungeoning. Those are things that were done by the minority in Vanilla, especially raiding. 12 years ago Vanilla isn't the same as current PS Vanilla and we all know it. The amount of people raiding in PS is higher than in Vanilla because the information is out there and it is also on a later patch than some of those raids were meant for.

[cafecito820]

For me, it was a much bigger sense of accomplishment for things that we take for granted now. Getting to level 60 was a long, long grind, and was exacerbated by the fact that you never even got your 60% mount until level 40 (not 20, like now). And, once you did hit level 60, it cost you 1000g to be able to ride your 100% ground mount. I had to take a loan from my brother just to buy my first raptor.

Grinding up to gear for Molten Core was also much more difficult, but rewarding. There was no matchmaking system in-game, so you were forced to meet friends to do dungeons with. And, I know this sounds crazy, but getting blues in those level 58+ dungeons was awesome! They were what you took into MC and kept wearing until you were lucky enough to get one of the 2 purples that dropped from a 40-person raid boss.

Compared to now... you level much faster, content is much more streamlined, you can be max level and spamming dungeons within a few days of starting the expansion, purples are handed out like candy, and players are more concerned with min-maxing stats than they are with just playing their character and the game. Not saying one way is better or worse, but Legion barely resembles Classic WoW, and what motivated me to play back then is all but gone from the game now.

[Kallisto]

People adapt to their surrounding. An environment which rewards/not punishes being a dick will A) attracts more dickish people, B) encourages people acting like dicks.
I'm pretty sure you actually get it, you just pretend you don't so you can claim it's not the game's fault.

It's not the games fault if people act like shit. Only person responsible is the person doing it, personal responsibility is a thing.

Also a few people acting like shit is a small price to pay so people who have shift work able to do dungeons, see raids and other instance events.

[voidillusion]

12 years ago Vanilla isn't the same as current PS Vanilla and we all know it. The amount of people raiding in PS is higher than in Vanilla because the information is out there and it is also on a later patch than some of those raids were meant for.

No it isn't, but only because they differ... well 12 yrs in time, because todays best vanilla experience is very damn close, you can trust my word on this, for the worst and for the best.

Regarding raiding i dunno man, you're maybe right, maybe wrong, i don't have a clue if more ppl raid in ps servers than they did in vanilla 12 years agor, and tbh i find it with minor relevance to the fundamental discussion started wich is: "what made classic wow better than current wow", for some ppl a lot of factors made it better, and you should accept that calmly, to each it's own, different tastes for different ppl.

[Akka]

It's not the games fault if people act like shit. Only person responsible is the person doing it, personal responsibility is a thing.

You might want to reread the post you quote.

Also a few people acting like shit is a small price to pay so people who have shift work able to do dungeons, see raids and other instance events.

It's always been possible to do that.

[Heladys]

Mystery and not knowing how things worked.

It certainly wasn't better content or more cohesive story-telling.

[Akka]

Mystery and not knowing how things worked.

It certainly wasn't better content or more cohesive story-telling.

Actually I found both vastly better in Vanilla.
Not as flashy, not as cinematic, but I prefer the lower-key and more integrated to the world way they did it back then (even if half of it was because technical limitations).

[Daffan]

Fair enough, if your 860ilvl is your ceiling that's fine.
Some crafted items are sold for millions because of double stat + gem rolls. It makes sense and it's relevant instead of "oh i use these items while leveling then they get way worse than what drops from the raid"
There are 880 players wiping on ToV pug groups, so, no, it's not "trivial with overgearing". Also, no one forces you to overgear content before doing it.

Nobody has a ceiling of 860, unless they just play only LFR then quit. Mythic 4 is base 850 (even higher with slot machine WF/TF) and mythic 6/7 has even higher base + chest (again even more WF/TF) and zergable by randoms. Spammable + trading items = ez pz life

You think anybody but 0.1% are buying those items? That's horrid design when professions are so useless only like 5 people are buying stuff ... Ok maybe 6 people.

Of course your not personally forced to overgear content, but good luck finding a group or guild that is sharing the same idea as you. That's just 1 stage. Wait until Nighthold comes out and probably nobody will even be doing the old content anymore.

The biggest issue I have with it is that there's really not a strong incentive to progress your character in Legion. Unless you're a hardcore raider you're only gearing for the sake of gearing, not in order to see more content or make things easier.

Back in vanilla you needed that gear in order to see the next raid, you needed it to make world content easier like farming devilsaur leather, doing righteous orb runs or just plain world PvP.

In Legion I don't feel all that interested in pursuing specific pieces of gear in order to overcome obstacles. World Quests were easy 50 iLvls ago and I get to see the new raids and dungeons no matter how my gear looks, it's just a matter och climbing a difficulty ladder and seeing the same content again. And even in that setting I don't have to go out of my way to find what's best for me, I can pretty much just play the game and slap on whatever piece of loot I get that has more iLvl and I'll be fine.

Exactly.

Random casuals already solved the puzzle. (Sub-consciously lol because they still ask for easy gear that creates the problem in the first place)

Why bother gearing or playing, when next patch everything will just be made obsolete? Chasing the Ilvl endless rope only works if you have a reason too. Most people don't care about Mythic, so using that as an argument to keep gearing is useless.

So, you do your main gameplay loop (Legion: world quests/dungeons/raid; Vanilla: Auction house/Mats farming/Dungeons/Raids) and get to see new raids and dungeons no matter how your gear looks. I don't see any difference here actually. If you think that in legion doing 250k DPS (and this is what you achieve by slapping onto your butt pants of simply higher ilvl. 350k maximum) will get you anywhere - you are soooo wrong. People with 870 gear struggle to find party and are too lazy to create their own, so they go to forums and cry about blizzard ruining community.

Except in Vanilla you couldn't out gear raids and other content before you even stepped into it (Boosting doesn't count - doesn't include average player)

Or raids and content you never did, never became obsolete just because.

[wombinator04]

For me, it was a much bigger N sense of accomplishment for things that we take for granted now. Getting to level 60 was a long, long grind, and was exacerbated by the O fact that you never even got your 60% mount until S level 40 (not 20, like now). And, once you did hit level 60, it cost you 1000g to be able to ride your 100% ground mount. I had to T take a loan from my brother just to buy my first raptor.

Grinding up A to gear for Molten Core was also much more difficult, but rewarding. There was no matchmaking L system in-game, so you were forced to meet friends to do dungeons with. And, I know this sounds crazy, but getting blues in those level 58+ dungeons was awesome! They were what you took into MC and kept wearing until you were lucky R enough to get one of the 2 purples that dropped from a 40-person raid boss.

Compared to now... you level much faster, content is much more streamlined, you can be max level and spamming dungeons within a few days of starting the expansion, purples are handed out like candy, and players I are more concerned with min-maxing stats than they are with just playing their character and the game. Not saying one way is better or U worse, but Legion barely resembles Classic WoW, and what motivated me to play back then is all but gone from the game now. S

Even thought I prefer current WoW, the free loot problem is getting insane. Legendary's are ruined now....it was welfare epics in MoP and WoD....In legion it's welfare legendary's, Blizzard just had to one up themselves this time.

[MattEffect]

The inception of MMOs. It was new and exciting and a lot of people had not experienced it yet. Now they are everywhere

[moremana]

Community = MMO

there is no Community in WoW anymore, sure there are guilds, that do raid...but they aren't needed anymore to gain decent gear, WQ works just fine and before everyone spews the "game is much better, please stop with the rose colored glasses or nostalgia", yes the game is better, it just does not have the same community anymore, now its just toxic.

Maybe just call it a RP game now.

[wych]

The inception of MMOs. It was new and exciting and a lot of people had not experienced it yet. Now they are everywhere

MMOs existed long before WoW

[Darsithis]

The inception of MMOs. It was new and exciting and a lot of people had not experienced it yet. Now they are everywhere

WoW was hardly the first. It was more like the 10th.

It was so popular because it was casual, far more so than any other MMO on the market then. Add in the famous Warcraft IP and it had a guaranteed base. NO one expected it to be as popular as it got, though, even the dev's said they had expected only a few hundred thousand players.

[Daffan]

And back in Vanilla that largely failed. Most people didn't "see more content". Blizzard moved away from that approach because it didn't work.

You are blaming everything on linear progression.

I'm sure it had nothing to do with;

*Requiring 20/40 people to even start raiding. Another big problem; Instead of 10 raids of 10, you had 2 raids of 40 and then 20 people doing nothing and they never could find a guild.
*No flex. (Again the average casual gets wrecked)
*No premade finder (Spamming trade sucked / Time wasting)
*No cross-realm so small servers never could find the people to even make a raid group.


But sure, let's blame everything on linear progression and attunements for making it unplayable for the average player. And never speak of the positives. Like crafting being relevant, content lasts longer, feeling/sense of achievement (where doing things feels rewarding), motivation to keep playing.

TF/WF is like Blizzard's dream attempt for retention. People don't have anything else to work on but these slot machines, and when they get an item they get that little 5 seconds of happiness, whereas achieving anything in older wow's, even if you were an average casual doing the worst content, it would give you 5 hours of happiness.

[moremana]

The inception of MMOs. It was new and exciting and a lot of people had not experienced it yet. Now they are everywhere

WoW wasnt the first MMO, there were other popular ones before it.

[Lithiac]

The one and only thing vanilla has over current is how interwoven the community was.

No name changes and no server transfers.

While I understand adding these things was needed from a business model perspective, it absolutely destroyed the community of a server and also allowed those who wanted to be douche flutes to proceed with little danger.

People (generally) were careful to safeguard their reputation of their character.

Other than that, WoW is far superior now than then.

I agree 100%.

I think often when people are nostalgic, it is for the community and relationships that were crucial to early WoW and it's success.

[Kyanion]

I agree 100%.

I think often when people are nostalgic, it is for the community and relationships that were crucial to early WoW and it's success.

Except you are agreeing on the no server transfers part of their spiel. The reality was that server transfers were freely offered on highly populated realms and then later in Vanilla's 2nd year paid server transfers were put into the game. The community wasn't as tight-knit as it seems when you look into the 2nd year of Vanilla.