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  1. #1

    Argus, Legion final boss and the future of the Burning Legion

    Hi guys ¡ I want to talk about the Burning Legion. I'm seeing a lot of people worried about that this expansion might be the end of the Legion. To those people I say, do NOT worry about that. The Legion isn't going anywhere.

    Blizzard always let a part of whatever evil we are facing alive. How many times we had beat the Scarlet Crusade?; The Scourge it's still alive and doing well; the Twilight Hammer still have a presence; the Old Gods are still there and could be easily resurrected if needed; the Infinite Dragonflight could and will come back at any moment; there are Mogu, Mantid, Black Dragons and enough alternative universe (Draenor) forces to build up whatever they wanted if they want to do an expansion about them.

    So, as I say, being the Burning Legion a faction MUCH more important and stonger than any of the previous (except the Old Gods), we can relax about their future presence.

    But let's talk about them, about the Demons. I think that we don't realise the magnitude of the Burning Legion. They had destroyed, for millenia, thousands of races and planets, their armies are endless, and even after Illidan's destruction of Nathreza and us invading Argus and killing Archimonde and Kil' Jaeden (in 7.2 raid), I really think that it wouldn't be much of a problem for them, because, we don't know shit about them.

    We know that Archimonde and Kil' Jaeden are important in the Legion, and that the Eredar are a significant part of their armies (mostly because of their tech and intelligence), and yes, losing them would be a mess. But would it be a BIG problem for an army that, potentially, could have among their forces races even more intelligent and advanced than the Eredar? They had expended millenia recruiting the more powerful races that they come across, we just don't know what they have in store.

    So here is my theory, the Burning Legion is much bigger than we thought. Argus is probably in Azeroth's solar system, as Draenor, or close. I think this because the Draenei escaped Argus and landed in Draenor, which we know is close to Azeroth. So, maybe Archimonde and Kil' Jaeden were just the bosses of the Legion in this solar system, or in this zone of the universe. It could be others like them or more powerful anywhere.

    This idea came to my mind mostly because we don't know who is going to be the final boss of this expansion. I think that it's safe to assume that Argus and the 7.3 raid would be the last of Legion, so, which are the choices for the big final boss? Let's look at them:

    - Archimonde and Kil' Jaeden: Archimonde it's pretty much dead and Kil' Jaeden will die in the 7.2 raid. Even if Kil' Jaeden escapes 7.2 raid alive, will they put him as the final boss? After defeating him in the previous raid tier? I highly doubt it. They might make an encounter in which we have to defeat them at the same time (like Onyxia and Nefarian encounter), but for the previous reasons I doubt that they will be the final bosses.

    - Nathrezim Council: this race is one of the most powerful of the Legion, but their known characters aren't that well-known or important, and we are dealing with Tichondrius in the Nightwell. Of course they might bring him back again with some of the others, but they aren't enough to play the role of final boss, especially after dealing with Kil' Jaeden.

    - Corrupted Khadgar or any other main character: highly doubt it, they will have to start building the corruption in patch 7.2, they expended years showing how Garrosh changed. It would be rushed and unfitting. We are facing the Legion so we should expect a demon final boss.

    - Sargeras: we are dealing with his Avatar in 7.2 raid, so...another avatar? fight against his toe or against his nose? this guy has the size of a planet, and even if he doesn't have that size for whatever reasons, he's just too powerful, and they wouldn't make the mistake of building him as a myth for years to just kill him in our first encounter. Just no.

    - Illidan: bring him back to kill him again. C'mon.

    - Azshara or N'Zoth: they can make an expansion on each of these guys individually. They just won't miss that opportunity.

    - Wrathion: obviously no.

    So, what to expect? None of the big baddies of the Legion that we know has a chance of being the final boss, so I expect that they start building him in 7.2 patch. I expect to know more about the Legion races, I expect to find some new ones, I expect some major new Legion characters to show up, and maybe one of them would be the chosen.

    And after we are done with Argus, I expect that somehow, Illidan will take over the demons that are left alive, and create his own Burning Legion, to fight against the Legion and against the void. Illidan has already renounce the Illidari, he make us their new leader in the Class Campaign. He had leaded demons before, and he has always been a dark character, do you really expect to be the child of the light that Xera wants to see? Illidan always finds his own way, he might be that child in the final battle, for a brief moment of time. But Illidan is Illidan, he will do what he must and what he wants, and I just don't see him returning to Night Elf society. He will be The Lick King of the Demons.
    Last edited by Darkarath; 2017-01-12 at 01:50 PM.
    Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.


  2. #2
    I hope fully functional avatar of Sargeras will be end boss. Not fallen husky thing in ToS. It would give oportunity for us to finaly fight Sargeras without making us fight fully fledged titan which would be ridicoulous.

    Another idea is end boss not being boss but event. We fight through demons to specific points on Argus where it's core is weakest so we can open portals which will destroy it according to Illidan's plan. This is simplified version of course...

    Maybe Blizz has preapred something unexpected altogether who knows
    Last edited by Dagoth Ur; 2017-01-12 at 03:34 PM.

  3. #3
    I love your idea of an event as a final boss, and it makes a lot of sense IMO. Legion armies are endless so we fight against them trying to buy time to Illidan to do his thing.

    This idea is much better than Avatar of Sargeras followed by an empowered Avatar of Sargeras, which sounds like a bad joke to me.
    Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.


  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Already? I barely see any of them other than at the shores of Ashzara and then here and there. Sick of the red and black and tangles mass of corruption in the emerald nightmare though....
    Yeah not sure why lots of people feel this way. If you want story to be told right & good, arguments such as "too much green", "too much orcs", "demons fatigue" are just stupid. Let Blizz tell story how it should be without rushing instead of complaining cuz you want to hit blue enemies instead of green ones. I really want them to close Burning Legion story arc properly, they owe it to Warcraft 3!

  5. #5
    Deleted
    I'm tired of the Burning Legion, why not end it definitively? We've got other enemies to fight.

    TBC and Legion are enough. It's always these damn demons. ENOUGH already. Even outside of TBC and Legion they've had major development in Warlords and Warcraft 3.

    It's almost like we're continuously alternating between the Legion and a diffrent foe: Old Horde > Legion > Scourge > Legion > Twilight Hammer > Legion > Pandas > Legion > Draenor Horde > Legion. Come on already, let's end these bastards once and for all. It's damn tiring.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Haha...I remember people having similar concerns when it came to fighting Deathwing. I though Blizzard was actually coming up with two clever fights to solve this. In theory. In reality, people on this forum keep hating on it.

    - - - Updated - - -
    I agree that the battle against Deathwing was well done from an encounter view, lorewise was nonsense.

    But we are talking about Sargeras, is not about his size, is about who he is, we havent even seen him, I mean, not even his face, in any Warcraft game, and we are supposed to kill him just when he appears? After dealing with his Avatar in the previous raid tier?

    I know that eventually Blizzard must come up with something that allow us kill him, so his planet sized form must go away, but its waaay to soon for that IMO.
    Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.


  7. #7
    Warchief Benomatic's Avatar
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    I'd be happy to see the end of the legion! 12 years plus RTS of them... time to move on.

  8. #8
    I'm one of those people who actually enjoy the Burning Legion foe. Granted, I'm biased because I'm a huge Illidan/Demon Hunter fanboy. I'd enjoy it more if we ended up in an expansion where in 7.3 we start a campaign on Argus, and the next expansion involves us reclaiming Argus little by little and then taking other Legion planets throughout that expansion. It'd feel pretty epic to me that we're not allowing them to come to us when they're ready, and instead busting into their house and breaking things.

    And it wouldn't have to be all fel green, either. There could be, like the OP suggests, races that we've never seen nor heard of before, with entirely different appearances, that are just owned or controlled by the Legion. -Shrug- I think that'd be exciting.

  9. #9
    A fully powered, Titan Sargeras will be the final boss of the expansion. I'm much less sure that we'll actually kill him, but considering Kil'jaeden is the final boss of the Tomb of Sargeras, there really is no one else that could be the final boss of this expansion. In fact, considering his enormous size and power, I wouldn't doubt if the entire raid is just Sargeras.
    Professor of History at Dalaran University

  10. #10
    It's not way too soon for Sargeras to die. In fact, now is exactly the right time.

    1. Blizzard has been building up a threat bigger than Sargeras for a while now. Even Sargeras went down the path of pure evil, to deny this threat its victory. We know the threat that will emerge once the final Titan is dead. The Void Lords.

    2. We've killed everyone else in the Legion. Yes, the Legion has plenty of forces left, but its generals have fallen. They are no longer such an organized or interesting enemy. Their final leader is Sargeras. We're going to Argus to end the threat of the Legion, and the only way to do that is to destroy him.

    3. Illidan is the one we're following now. The "Chosen One" to end the Legion. The mongrel that conquered Outland and blew up the Dreadlord home world in his book. The one who lived in the temple where Ner'zhul destroyed Draenor. This man knows how to destroy worlds better than Deathwing ever did.

    4. WoW's lifespan is limited. This game isn't going on forever. We're not looking at 5 more expansions here. I personally think the next one will be the last one. Player base is shrinking, and power creep has us facing bigger and bigger threats. What are we going to face after ending the Legion and Void Lord threat? Pirates? It only makes sense that we're going to be wrapping things up.

    5. Argus is the perfect place to face Sargeras. If he ever reaches Azeroth, he could flatten kingdoms with his fist alone. But Argus is his most important Legion stronghold. Our presence there is the perfect way to lure him in, and he can't just pound us flat without destroying stuff important to his end goals.

    Theory: We blow up Argus to destroy Sargeras. Argus is a dead hunk of stone that's been corrupted with fel for 13.000 years. If it was purposefully detonated like a grenade, blasting whole landmasses at Sargeras in orbit like the universe's biggest bomb, it could destroy Sargeras. And Illidan can definitely accomplish this. Especially with the power of our artifacts.

    Will there still be demons? Yes. But they will no longer be a legion.
    Last edited by Caerule; 2017-01-12 at 06:00 PM.

  11. #11
    I want a boss fight similar to that of when we were running away from the Lich King in that dungeon.


    When I say similar, I don't want a purely "AHHH ITS THE LEGION! RUN!" type thing. Like a "mission impossible" thing where the whole raid we're going deep into enemy territory to screw something up and fighting generals along the way and such. If it were to destroy an enemy base or something like the last 'fight' kind of goes sideways as we plant the "bomb" and end up having the high tail it out of there while either something big chases us or something big is coming after us.

    Don't get me wrong it would be very hard to execute as a final expansion boss. It would be definitely be different than the usual "defeat the big bad" mentality, but it could be spun in a way that the "big bad" is defeated while doing the mission impossible type stuff.

    As for why would we get a reward for running away, I'd view it as simply stealing enemy resources.

    I don't know. I just REALLY liked the "boss fight" where we run away back in Wrath.


    Quote Originally Posted by Caerule View Post
    [B]

    Theory: We blow up Argus to destroy Sargeras. Argus is a dead hunk of stone that's been corrupted with fel for 13.000 years. If it was purposefully detonated like a grenade, blasting whole landmasses at Sargeras in orbit like the universe's biggest bomb, it could destroy Sargeras. And Illidan can definitely accomplish this. Especially with the power of our artifacts.

    Will there still be demons? Yes. But they will no longer be a legion.
    I actually really like that idea. Blow up the place they inhabit rather than the villain himself. My idea above could be Sargeras getting really angry at us and chasing us with everything he's got, only to escape at the last second or something.

  12. #12
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Our artifacts while powerful, I doubt they could even touch Sargeras.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  13. #13
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozler View Post
    Ugh... we've had the Burning Legion as an enemy since Vanilla with varying intensity. We've seen gloomy, dank, green/blank areas enough. Just the theme in general of Us vs. Legion has been going way too long for me. I really hope they don't find some way to make them linger for yet another expansion.
    When it comes to the Broken Isles there are only small areas of Legion influence so it's not nearly as bad as you make it out to be. And the Legion wasn't too much involved in Vanilla, it was very sparse.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Caerule View Post
    It's not way too soon for Sargeras to die. In fact, now is exactly the right time.

    1. Blizzard has been building up a threat bigger than Sargeras for a while now. Even Sargeras went down the path of pure evil, to deny this threat its victory. We know the threat that will emerge once the final Titan is dead. The Void Lords.

    2. We've killed everyone else in the Legion. Yes, the Legion has plenty of forces left, but its generals have fallen. They are no longer such an organized or interesting enemy. Their final leader is Sargeras. We're going to Argus to end the threat of the Legion, and the only way to do that is to destroy him.

    3. Illidan is the one we're following now. The "Chosen One" to end the Legion. The mongrel that conquered Outland and blew up the Dreadlord home world in his book. The one who lived in the temple where Ner'zhul destroyed Draenor. This man knows how to destroy worlds better than Deathwing ever did.

    4. WoW's lifespan is limited. This game isn't going on forever. We're not looking at 5 more expansions here. I personally think the next one will be the last one. Player base is shrinking, and power creep has us facing bigger and bigger threats. What are we going to face after ending the Legion and Void Lord threat? Pirates? It only makes sense that we're going to be wrapping things up.

    5. Argus is the perfect place to face Sargeras. If he ever reaches Azeroth, he could flatten kingdoms with his fist alone. But Argus is his most important Legion stronghold. Our presence there is the perfect way to lure him in, and he can't just pound us flat without destroying stuff important to his end goals.

    Theory: We blow up Argus to destroy Sargeras. Argus is a dead hunk of stone that's been corrupted with fel for 13.000 years. If it was purposefully detonated like a grenade, blasting whole landmasses at Sargeras in orbit like the universe's biggest bomb, it could destroy Sargeras. And Illidan can definitely accomplish this. Especially with the power of our artifacts.
    1- For a while? Old Gods, yes. This new Void massive enemy is new, we only know of their existence because Chronicles, and WoD touched it a little bit. But Blizzard hasn't develop them at all. We had Azeroth's Old Gods, yes, but we are talking about a MUCH bigger threat, one that, knowing Blizzard, it's going to take years to build.

    I'm pretty sure that you read Anduin pre-Legion launch comic, so you know that we aren't facing the final fight (supposedly) against the Void (supposedly) until...40-50 years? And yeah we could have a big time jump between expansions, but seeing how close in time the expansions have been until today, I doubt it.

    2- I doubt it for the arguments of my first post. Blizzard always leaves a door open. It has always been like that, with every threat we faced, it's not going to be different with the Legion, especially with the Legion.

    3- We are going to follow him...for a while, and for a while I mean for years to come, against the Legion and probably against the Void. Do you think that they brought Illidan back to finish the Legion in one expansion? Hell no.

    Illidan's story is tied to the Legion, now that he's back, they´re going to build a new arc for him that will last years. And as I said, I see him becoming the leader of a free Demon army.

    4- It really surprise me how people keep saying that next expansion is going to be the last one. Why would Blizzard do such a stupid thing? They have a product that, even without the success of a few years ago, it's a ENORMOUS success, which is giving them a LOT of money every month, and as long as that doesn't change (and even with only, ''only'', 1 million players, they would be earning a lot of money) they will keep doing expansions.

    Everquest is still played today, that's all that you need to know. If that game, which never had the success of WoW, or the content, is still online, imagine how long WoW it's going to last. It might bury us.

    5- Sargeras true form will have to travel for eons to reach Azeroth, Chronicles gave us that information (that makes one think about how big the Legion could be), and why do you think that he haven't been summoned on Argus already? A planet that is, probably, very close to Azeroth. They don't have the power to do it, but Azeroth does.

    I don't think that we are seeing any Sargeras form in Argus, probably some voice lines, nothing else.

    6- I highly doubt that they will destroy Argus. As I said, Blizzard always leaves a door open, and that includes planets. And with the amount of people that are going to Argus, I just don't see how holding the endless Legion armies and escaping at the same time will work.
    Last edited by Darkarath; 2017-01-12 at 06:50 PM.
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  15. #15
    Warchief Benomatic's Avatar
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    We have had the legion for almost 20 years, now we can still have old gods...

  16. #16
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Our artifacts while powerful, I doubt they could even touch Sargeras.
    unless they make us go full anime and increase the weapon size to "big as the planet".

    there's always that option.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  17. #17
    You people post some really ignorant shit.
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

  18. #18
    Why are we all assuming we are going to kill anyone important in the final raid? I'm thinking there might be some heavy outrage if we don't, but what if we actually lose on Argus?
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxos View Post
    When you play the game of MMOs, you win or you go f2p.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Airlick View Post
    Why are we all assuming we are going to kill anyone important in the final raid? I'm thinking there might be some heavy outrage if we don't, but what if we actually lose on Argus?
    I would find this very reallistic but come on it's Blizzard... of course we will win. Writer for Broken shore couldn't sleep for days when he had to write us losing there... true story.

  20. #20
    Sargeras. I'd like it if we were somehow imbued the the essence of a titan world soul (each player), and then blown up to a planet sized titan. The raid zone would pretty much be us in space or maybe on the surface Argus if it's on a smaller scale. If it was on the surface of Argus, we would be so huge that there would be tiny little buildings, mountains etc. under our feet. The zone design would have to be really well done though to make sure the magnitude of size/scale really hits home.

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