Have you seen the sims? JEEEEESUS

[Turturin the Warlock]

I feel the opposite as a destro lock :\

Honestly a lot of classes / specs in my guild are sharing the same sentiment: "We do more damage, but this is less fun to play."

I'm also bummed about magistrikes getting gutted, there was a rumor going around that blizzard didn't like it being able to proc off of both bolts simultaneously and as far as I can tell they made it so that never happens anymore. The nerf was much much larger than the reduction in the notes, thing does 3-4% of my dmg now.

It's not bad, but considering its a niche berry that does nothing in ST you'd think they'd make it a bit stronger than the relative increase you see from flat damage berries across classes.

Yeah did only 4.6% of my damage last night on Helya mythic as opposed to 11% on first kill the week before (can't link prior week its a private log). And for the night on Helya it was down around 3%, although a couple of those didn't get to p2/3 where it really shines.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&fight=23

I didn't notice if it double procced or not, but your theory seems consistent with my results above. big caveat very small sample size.

[Lucrece]

They gut magistrike but then tone down the nerfs on fire mage bracers lul

Same for sindorei, nerfed by half.

[Deleted]

They gut magistrike but then tone down the nerfs on fire mage bracers lul

Same for sindorei, nerfed by half.

Admittedly, Sindorei is still extremely strong. So much so, actually that it is still the BIS legedary for destruction, depsite being a demo legendary.

[Lucrece]

Admittedly, Sindorei is still extremely strong. So much so, actually that it is still the BIS legedary for destruction, depsite being a demo legendary.

That's more a factor of warlock legendaries being garbage than anything else. Look at affliction, it's a collection of terrible legendaries. Only demo truly had sizable legendaries outside the terrible Wilfred's Insignia of Superior Summoning.

Combat rogues' ring was ridiculously strong, they nerfed it by 8% and then they bumped it up some more, just as they did with mage bracers. Only warlock legendaries received nerfs of the magnitude where the effect was effectively halved without compensations to the class (unlike warriors/mages/shadowpriests).

[Deleted]

That's more a factor of warlock legendaries being garbage than anything else. Look at affliction, it's a collection of terrible legendaries. Only demo truly had sizable legendaries outside the terrible Wilfred's Insignia of Superior Summoning.

Combat rogues' ring was ridiculously strong, they nerfed it by 8% and then they bumped it up some more, just as they did with mage bracers. Only warlock legendaries received nerfs of the magnitude where the effect was effectively halved without compensations to the class (unlike warriors/mages/shadowpriests).

Honestly, I'm less bothered by the power gap and more by pures needing to collect so many from such a large pool when specs swap around in value.

I've a bunch of shitty destruction legendaries and picked up the affliction bracers on Wed, which seem dreadfully mediocre at best - but beats nothing.
I really wish there was just A legendary warlock cape, A legendary warlock set of bracers etc that had a different effect across the specs. It would help an awful lot with situations like we're currently in, where affliction is suddenly in a healthy stats after starting the expansion as a borderline joke spec with a legendary pool tainted by novelty items like the corruption slow ring - I'd like to play affliction more, but outside of dungeons it just feels I don't have the legendaries to make it worthwhile - I imagine that feeling is even bigger for people who've been lucky enough to get things like the destro belt / shoulders.
The AP requirements feel penalty enough without legendaries ontop of it.

[Uzkin]

exactly same for me.

never had less fun playing a damage dealer than Destruction 7.1.5 with RB, ELT, Service, CDF

Agreed as well. Blizzard pretty much forces destruction to pick the least fun and the most offending-to-the-spec-identity talent from each talent tier. Whether it's due to their cluelessness or malice, I don't know.

TIER 1.
Spec fantasy: Destruction is not a dot-focused spec, but a nuke spec.
Reality: Blizzard forces destro to choose the dot talent instead of one of the nuke talents. As a further offense, the two nuke talents are former iconic, absolutely essential destruction baseline abilities (or, rather, ruined versions of those).

TIER 2.
Spec fantasy: Destruction isn't a life-tap-interactive spec but focuses on casting and improving damaging secondary-resource nukes.
Reality: Blizzard forces destro to choose the life-tap-interactive maintenance talent instead of the spec-appropriate talents.
(Besides, maintenance abilities pretty much never feel fun anyway.)

TIER 3. (Not a dps tier. Demonic circle being a clunky talent instead of the former two-button baseline ability nevertheless earns Blizzard another fail.)

TIER 4. Yet another tier 2/3-filled with poor-man's versions of former baseline abilities.

TIER 5.
Spec fantasy: Warlock is the tanky caster.
Reality: If you want to talent according to this fantasy you will have to experience pretty much the worst dungeon experience wow has to offer: desperately trying to catch up with the rest of the group while they kill stuff somewhere far ahead of you.

TIER 6.
Spec fantasy: Destruction is not a pet-focused spec but does damage notably through secondary-resource nukes.
Reality: Blizzard forces destro to choose the most pet-management-centric talent in the tier. As a further offense, the talent costs secondary resources to use and, therefore, directly works AGAINST the spec fantasy.

TIER 7.
Spec fantasy: As already said, it's mostly about casting big nukes.
Reality: You often won't take the talent which allows you to cleave those nukes. You won't take the talent which allows you to cast more of those nukes, either. Instead, you take the channeled demonic diarrhea; a generic channel-with-a-cooldown with little interaction with the rest of the spec.

Blizzard's result: 0/7, FAIL.

[kavousanos]

I feel the opposite as a destro lock :\

Honestly a lot of classes / specs in my guild are sharing the same sentiment: "We do more damage, but this is less fun to play."

I'm also bummed about magistrikes getting gutted, there was a rumor going around that blizzard didn't like it being able to proc off of both bolts simultaneously and as far as I can tell they made it so that never happens anymore. The nerf was much much larger than the reduction in the notes, thing does 3-4% of my dmg now.

It's not bad, but considering its a niche berry that does nothing in ST you'd think they'd make it a bit stronger than the relative increase you see from flat damage berries across classes.

Fun.. fun left the warlock class ever since the Legion pre-patch hit live.
What is fun in having a builder-spender circle when your spenders have a chance to deal less damage than your builder, while doing half the dmg of other comparable ranged spells(see pyroblast, Between the Eyes, Full Moon..) even with maximum mastery rolls? Or turning into an immobile imp-factory? Or lifting your hand in the air 4-5 times, cast your filler and check damage meter for results? UA used to be somewhat fun with Compounding Horror and "unlimited" stacking, when a good shard streak would let you see 1mil ticks, but hell.. They neutered that too.

I'm talking about pure quality of life.. Not having to recast Demonic Circle in the middle of a fight. Not having to deal with Effigy if you hate it. Banish being the only long cc in pve that aggroed mobs, which made it useless in on-time runs of mythic+. That kind of stuff..
I know it's not much. But all previous changes considered, this is a tiny step towards the right direction for warlocks.

[BannedForViews]

How is that a choice, but "MG for more ST, or WiA because there are other targets you'll gain more benefit from keeping Agony on" isn't?

Because mg performs on par with wia on all current fights youd assume wia would be the best at. Mg is so much damage right now there is just no point in using other talents. You could use wia, but why would you go through the effort and risk the loss if you make a mistake when mg is as powerful and much more forgiving?

[Deleted]

This is partly because soul Effigy shard proc rate is much lower than it should be.

Grasp is forgiving of mistakes, but very unforgiving of movement.

[Valkaneer]

Where are these sims youre so in love with, because simc isnt working with mg at all, and askmrrobot is usingthe wrong rotation. Got hit a fucking training dunny and youll see just how awful any effigy build is compared to mg/sc. Its like 30% behind. Effigy cannot come close, whether with mg, or wia, or anything. It couldnt on tue ptr and it cant on live.

there is only 1 choice right now and its do you take contagion for more st, or ac because there are other targets youll gain ore benefit from keeping corruption on. That is it.

Isn't anyone going to mention that SE is bugged atm. It's not that it can't compete, it's that it's bugged. And i'm not talking about the MG buff not working, i'm talking about a real bug, I talking about 2 guide makers and Yipzarena saying it's bugged.

[BannedForViews]

This is partly because soul Effigy shard proc rate is much lower than it should be.

Grasp is forgiving of mistakes, but very unforgiving of movement.

Effigy has never really generated shards. I've tested it multiplke times in the past. it's only about 10% more shard generation than if you took PS, and it's kind of a lot behind SC.

Remembering the old numbers I posted, it was roughly 6.6 ticks to 6 ticks, to slightly under 5 ticks, for PS/SE/SC and the amount of main target agony ticks required to produce 1 shard.

- - - Updated - - -

Isn't anyone going to mention that SE is bugged atm. It's not that it can't compete, it's that it's bugged. And i'm not talking about the MG buff not working, i'm talking about a real bug, I talking about 2 guide makers and Yipzarena saying it's bugged.

Even if it were producing zero shards, it wouldn't be much different than what it was doing last week. Effigy has never generated a lot of shards. I have documented it.

[Deleted]

Because mg performs on par with wia on all current fights youd assume wia would be the best at. Mg is so much damage right now there is just no point in using other talents. You could use wia, but why would you go through the effort and risk the loss if you make a mistake when mg is as powerful and much more forgiving?

High mobility and pvp presumably. WIA gets a lot more usage than other talents across the rest of the tree on both affliction and other specs.

[Deleted]

Effigy has never really generated shards. I've tested it multiplke times in the past. it's only about 10% more shard generation than if you took PS, and it's kind of a lot behind SC.

Remembering the old numbers I posted, it was roughly 6.6 ticks to 6 ticks, to slightly under 5 ticks, for PS/SE/SC and the amount of main target agony ticks required to produce 1 shard.

- - - Updated - - -



Even if it were producing zero shards, it wouldn't be much different than what it was doing last week. Effigy has never generated a lot of shards. I have documented it.

at the moment Effigy's shard proc rate is much lower than in was pre-7.1.5

- - - Updated - - -

High mobility and pvp presumably. WIA gets a lot more usage than other talents across the rest of the tree on both affliction and other specs.

This. Writhe + Effigy synergise very well and are virtually unaffacted by movement, except when Effigy goes out of range

[Averrix]

They won't let warlocks stay this buff, they will definitely nerf

[cocoqt]

They won't let warlocks stay this buff, they will definitely nerf

Thank you for your meaningful contribution to this thread.

[BannedForViews]

at the moment Effigy's shard proc rate is much lower than in was pre-7.1.5

- - - Updated - - -



This. Writhe + Effigy synergise very well and are virtually unaffacted by movement, except when Effigy goes out of range

It's like you didn't read what i said. In 7.1 it was so low it wasn't really impactful. And none of that has anything to do with how all 7.1 fights with SE are better performed with MG now.

[Baconeggcheese]

I'm talking about pure quality of life..

What you're calling QoL was reduced for destruction, is my point.

[Averrix]

Thank you for your meaningful contribution to this thread.

It is meaningful, because it's what Blizzard does.

[HeyGuysHello]

It'll even out. According to an ever-changing sheet to weigh before NH is released, out of 26 DPS specs, Aff is only in 15th place in terms of net gain from 0-to-4piece (6.79%). Destruction is our only undertuned spec, with a balanced tier gain (7.82%). With that in mind, we're also looking at farm logs, when progression logs matter the most. Aff will still be good for progression, but Destro's almost mindless gameplay has allowed us to tunnel less and burst down adds faster.

tl;dr Numbers are changing hard in logs come NH based solely on tier and progression utility.

(Tier percentages not set in stone here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...sle=true#gid=0)

[Sunlighthell]

It'll even out. According to an ever-changing sheet to weigh before NH is released, out of 26 DPS specs, Aff is only in 15th place in terms of net gain from 0-to-4piece (6.79%). Destruction is our only undertuned spec, with a balanced tier gain (7.82%). With that in mind, we're also looking at farm logs, when progression logs matter the most. Aff will still be good for progression, but Destro's almost mindless gameplay has allowed us to tunnel less and burst down adds faster.

tl;dr Numbers are changing hard in logs come NH based solely on tier and progression utility.

(Tier percentages not set in stone here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...sle=true#gid=0)

Point of many piosters here including myself is that Blizzard will nerf locks hard because "we rather you didn't played affliction". And other classes will remain at their current level of op. Retarded buffs to spriests and warriors prove that.

Affliction damage is retarded tho. I'm reaching almost 800k crits with UA under mg+ reap +WoC. MG will certainly be nerfed because blizzard only nerfs good talents without buffs to shit ones. Problems as said above, other classes has such damage increases since 7.0. and they don't give a f.