Results are in - literally every class 100k dps higher on single target than hunters.

[Firebyrd]

It worked for Retribution.
And no, it obviously didn't. That's why it took them so damn long to fix Warlocks.
But I support Hunter fixes in 7.2! I have a main to focus on.

Clearly all developers play no classes.
Because every class claims this.

What are you smoking, locks got changes in 7.1 that took them to mid-tier instead of being bottom of the barrel. Good locks were smoking people even before the patch. This is why people get toxic, they see it gets results. If Blizzard would respond to feedback when it's still in the polite stages, they wouldn't get this kind of behavior. Instead they ignore thousands of posts on their own official forums and people get mad and blow up.

[Tharkkun]

I have extended knowledge on the class.
All I am saying is: There's some issues with the hunter, discuss it with the developers. Don't be toxic like the Warlocks were.

Hunters have been trying to talk to the developers since the beta. We get like 3 lines in responses. There was a pet bug that persisted through the entire beta and into live. Tons of feedback about it. Someone was fed up with it and tweeted to Watcher and it was fixed the next day. Whoever's responsible isn't listening unless you go to their boss.

[satimy]

I have extended knowledge on the class.
All I am saying is: There's some issues with the hunter, discuss it with the developers. Don't be toxic like the Warlocks were.

The class is garbage this expansion, thats my take. Being Garbage mechanically and worst dps is just icing on the shit cake

[Cque]

It worked for Retribution.
And no, it obviously didn't. That's why it took them so damn long to fix Warlocks.
But I support Hunter fixes in 7.2! I have a main to focus on.

Clearly all developers play no classes.
Because every class claims this.

If I recall correctly, shadow priests were about to get nerfed early on in the expansion and they started a forums war that ended with them getting buffed or something like that. Anyway sometimes people need a "push" in the right direction and I'm talking in general not about hunters, so its only natural that when people see something that they disagree with we get in a situation like this, especially if the developers ignore the affected party.

[GT4]

If I recall correctly, shadow priests were about to get nerfed early on in the expansion and they started a forums war that ended with them getting buffed or something like that. Anyway sometimes people need a "push" in the right direction and I'm talking in general not about hunters, so its only natural that when people see something that they disagree with we get in a situation like this, especially if the developers ignore the affected party.

You're taking everything completely out of context. SPs were overperforming under certain circumstances (everywhere you can use S2M effectively which was basically only raids at that point) and underperforming everywhere else. At first, Blizzard basically gutted S2M which would've resulted in the spec being in the gutter for the most part since it was bad without S2M. After a while of protest (not necessarily by SPs but also by guilds who had equipped SPs for mythic progress), they reverted most of the nerfs, leaving only relatively mild nerfs for S2M and small buffs that wouldn't affect S2M but help SPs out a bit outside of S2M where they were terrible.

In this case, developers already seem to be aware that hunters are underperforming so buffs are very likely incoming (as suggested in the recent podcast). You're benefiting from the same that SPs benefited from back then - many guilds have stacked and geared hunters to a certain degree based on previous information (viability in EN/ToV plus PTR data) so if hunters were underperforming, those guilds would be screwed. As such, it's a higher priority for Blizzard that hunters are viable than e.g. elemental shamans being viable.

[Finbezz]

If the choice is between being bottom dps or behaving toxically and spamming the shit out of everything? Yes.

Luckily there are alternatives.
It didn't work for Warlocks, it will not work for Hunters.

hahahaha affliction is one of the strongest specs in the game. didnt work my ass

[Purifico]

It took THIS from my personal twitter to get their attention. Even then, we don't get any info, just a footnote that they will do some class tuning. I find it utterly insane that this is what it takes for hunters to be heard. We've told them since ALPHA about all the things that were broken/glitched/underpowered etc. They systematically ignored us on the PTR and forums. At this point, I honestly think we have to stop being so nice. Nice guys finish last. Look where we are.

[Glorious Leader]

It took THIS from my personal twitter to get their attention. Even then, we don't get any info, just a footnote that they will do some class tuning. I find it utterly insane that this is what it takes for hunters to be heard. We've told them since ALPHA about all the things that were broken/glitched/underpowered etc. They systematically ignored us on the PTR and forums. At this point, I honestly think we have to stop being so nice. Nice guys finish last. Look where we are.

Im sorry i have to ask what course of action do you suggest with reference to not "being so nice anymore". I find it fascinating you seem to think you being a dick or some paragon of virtue makes a lick of difference.

[Purifico]

Im sorry i have to ask what course of action do you suggest with reference to not "being so nice anymore". I find it fascinating you seem to think you being a dick or some paragon of virtue makes a lick of difference.

Do YOU have a better idea? Because if you'd really like to ask, then I'd say if anything we're doing is utterly pointless, then the whole point of player feedback is null and void. If that's the case, then everything from Alpha onward made no difference according to your logic. All I'm saying here is that clearly, everything we've done so far in Legion in terms of communication has failed to get them to hear what we have to say, with the exception of people going on a tirade @Muffinus on twitter about Hati being slower than a snail and now this. It's blatantly obvious to me that if we don't MAKE the devs pay attention, they won't. That's what I'm eluding too. Being nice and hoping they will listen to our feedback has gotten us nothing so far.

[Aggrophobic]

and with hunter you can switch to bm and not have to worry about casting at all, cant use that as an argument

BM is so far behind that the movement does not in any way make up for the lack of damage.
Stop being silly.

While affli is silly strong at the moment.

[FelPlague]

BM is so far behind that the movement does not in any way make up for the lack of damage.
Stop being silly.

While affli is silly strong at the moment.

did i say i agree that hunters shoudl be this far behind, or that affliction is not op?
no i said that hunters should never be top dps though

[Deleted]

Im sorry i have to ask what course of action do you suggest with reference to not "being so nice anymore". I find it fascinating you seem to think you being a dick or some paragon of virtue makes a lick of difference.

well he by himself not but if we as a commnity literally bombard their twitter account then they might realize what an aweful job they did.

- - - Updated - - -

did i say i agree that hunters shoudl be this far behind, or that affliction is not op?
no i said that hunters should never be top dps though

for what reason? mages and locks are fine being top1 but hunters aren't?

[Aggrophobic]

did i say i agree that hunters shoudl be this far behind, or that affliction is not op?
no i said that hunters should never be top dps though

And that idea is silly. Simple as that.

[FelPlague]

well he by himself not but if we as a commnity literally bombard their twitter account then they might realize what an aweful job they did.

- - - Updated - - -



for what reason? mages and locks are fine being top1 but hunters aren't?

because hunters have and allways will be more mobile then casters

[Deleted]

because hunters have and allways will be more mobile then casters

are ou serious? have you played a mage during the last patch? they were running all over the place. (or firing instants - got a mage alt and it was a joke)
and form my perspective we are just as mobile as a destro lock. The only difference is that we have to spam to regenrate OUR MANA by spamming a low damage instant spell so we can finally stand still and cast aimedshots to become a turret again.

I kinda got the feeling that you simply dislike hunters because of personal reasons since by your logic all hybrid classes should never be top dps since they bring so much utility.

Hunter is a dps only class. Saying that a DPS-only class should never be allowed to be top 1 is ignorant.

[Scrotch]

because hunters have and allways will be more mobile then casters

Warlocks should never be top DPS. They have so much self healing via drain life and the passive absorb shield on top of providing healthstones to the entire raid that their damage should be lowered to compensate.

/s

[Deleted]

did i say i agree that hunters shoudl be this far behind, or that affliction is not op?
no i said that hunters should never be top dps though

No class SHOULD be top dps, but one class HAS to be.
Just because yours isn't does not mean you have to tell everysingle other class that "u shuld nva be top dps tho, wlock so bad tho who cars bout huntard m8 ? "

[Cque]

You're taking everything completely out of context. SPs were overperforming under certain circumstances (everywhere you can use S2M effectively which was basically only raids at that point) and underperforming everywhere else. At first, Blizzard basically gutted S2M which would've resulted in the spec being in the gutter for the most part since it was bad without S2M. After a while of protest (not necessarily by SPs but also by guilds who had equipped SPs for mythic progress), they reverted most of the nerfs, leaving only relatively mild nerfs for S2M and small buffs that wouldn't affect S2M but help SPs out a bit outside of S2M where they were terrible.

In this case, developers already seem to be aware that hunters are underperforming so buffs are very likely incoming (as suggested in the recent podcast). You're benefiting from the same that SPs benefited from back then - many guilds have stacked and geared hunters to a certain degree based on previous information (viability in EN/ToV plus PTR data) so if hunters were underperforming, those guilds would be screwed. As such, it's a higher priority for Blizzard that hunters are viable than e.g. elemental shamans being viable.

Original hotfix on September 23:-

Shadow:

Mind Sear damage and Insanity generation increased by 50%.

Voidform stacks no longer increase while Dispersion and Void Torrent are active.
Note: These abilities prevent Insanity drain from increasing while active, which effectively reduces the Insanity drain for the entire remainder the current Voidform. This was proving to be too powerful, so we’re now making sure that the damage bonus and Insanity drain from Voidform remain in sync.

The benefit of Mass Hysteria (Artifact Trait) is now capped at 100%.
Note: We want it to be rewarding when you’re able to maintain Surrender to Madness for an extremely long time, but the amount of damage this trait was contributing in those circumstances was excessive.

Hotfix on September 26th:

Shadow
Mind Sear damage increased by 80% and Insanity generation increased by 50%.
Mind Flay damage increased by 20%.
Mind Spike damage increased by 28%.
Void Ray maximum stacks reduced to 4.
Developers’ Notes: Given the damage increase to Mind Sear, Mind Flay, and Mind Spike, this still results in an overall increase to the value of the talent.
Voidform stacks no longer increase while Dispersion is active.
Developers’ Notes: We would prefer that Surrender to Madness not be as dominant as it is, and that it can’t be extended for quite so long. However, addressing this further would require significant changes to the spec beyond what we want to do in a tuning pass at this time. We will look for an opportunity to take a more comprehensive look at this issue in a future patch.

sorry for the text wall but these changes were meant to tune down S2M not the shadow priest performance in general, which at the time was destroying meters if I'm not mistaken.

[Deleted]

because hunters have and allways will be more mobile then casters

Should we take into account mobility and utility to decide which dps should be top ?
Because i'm a frost dk so i would quite like that.
Also, saying "you can just switch to a spec that has no casting so the complaint that you cant move with your current spec is not valid" is honestly the most braindead thing i've read on mmo-c.

[GT4]

Original hotfix on September 23:-

Shadow:

Mind Sear damage and Insanity generation increased by 50%.

Voidform stacks no longer increase while Dispersion and Void Torrent are active.
Note: These abilities prevent Insanity drain from increasing while active, which effectively reduces the Insanity drain for the entire remainder the current Voidform. This was proving to be too powerful, so we’re now making sure that the damage bonus and Insanity drain from Voidform remain in sync.

The benefit of Mass Hysteria (Artifact Trait) is now capped at 100%.
Note: We want it to be rewarding when you’re able to maintain Surrender to Madness for an extremely long time, but the amount of damage this trait was contributing in those circumstances was excessive.

Hotfix on September 26th:

Shadow
Mind Sear damage increased by 80% and Insanity generation increased by 50%.
Mind Flay damage increased by 20%.
Mind Spike damage increased by 28%.
Void Ray maximum stacks reduced to 4.
Developers’ Notes: Given the damage increase to Mind Sear, Mind Flay, and Mind Spike, this still results in an overall increase to the value of the talent.
Voidform stacks no longer increase while Dispersion is active.
Developers’ Notes: We would prefer that Surrender to Madness not be as dominant as it is, and that it can’t be extended for quite so long. However, addressing this further would require significant changes to the spec beyond what we want to do in a tuning pass at this time. We will look for an opportunity to take a more comprehensive look at this issue in a future patch.

sorry for the text wall but these changes were meant to tune down S2M not the shadow priest performance in general, which at the time was destroying meters if I'm not mistaken.

That's what I described. It's also not what you described in your post previously. You were talking about buffs and nerfs in general when the nerfs they didn't do were to S2M specifically and the buffs they did were to nonS2M specifically. You described it as if Blizzard wanted to buff SP in general at first and then ended up buffing them in general because of people bitching.

Make reasonable suggestions and Blizzard might listen. Don't expect them to completely oppose their opinion just because you tell them to.